I want to tweak the shim stack in my Marvel Pro, but the Abs+ damper seems to be stuck. Here's what I did:
1. Opened LSC (anticlockwise to max).
2. Removed adjuster knob, ball bearings and springs.
3. Unscrewed the damper with a 24mm hex socket until it started to "jump" on thread, so there should be no thread engaged.
4. Tried to pull the damper up, but it won't budge.

Can anyone help? Do I have to apply more force? The damper has not been removed before.

 

Basically yes. Try to move it left and right while pulling outwards.

 

Nope, still doesn't work. There was comment about letting the air out earlier in thread, should I have done that too?

 

the same situation with mattoc. This cap is sealed by o-ring deep in stanchion. It helds so much that every time I try to get it out my fingers suffer. IMO try harder and move it left-right during pulling. Then suddenly loud POOOOP occurs and everything is covered with damper oil

 

Finally made it with help of copper wire, I wrapped it under the damper and pulled up. Just like @nikon255 said, my previous attempts resulted in finger ache, but the wire can be pulled with anything hooked.

Thanks for help, guys.

 

Grab the stanchion by both hands, and firmly but slowly push the damper up by both thumbs, while wiggling it a little to the sides. Don't rush it, but let it take a few seconds to get it out. That usually works just fine, and mostly also avoids spilling much oil.

 

after few times I found the same method, just gradually pull with some side to side movement.

 

I have some 17od shims laying around but their id is 6 instead of 8. Can i drill them out to fit the shaft or would that be impossible?

 

It doesn't work that way. Your best bet is to buy new shims

You can also email techsupport@hayesbicycle.com and nicely ask. If you are lucky, they may send you a few for free

 

Thanks, i’ll try it that way. Or order the ABS+ tuning kit somewhere. I’ll probably need to contact manitou tech support for the 2 mcleods i’m running. Those shims aren’t for sale (yet?)

My mcleods are from when they first came out, so they probably still have the old shimstack. I still need to open them up to check for sure

 

Thanks, i'll try it that way. Or order the ABS+ tuning kit somewhere. I'll probably need to contact manitou tech support for the 2 mcleods i'm running. Those shims aren't for sale (yet?)

My mcleods are from when they first came out, so they probably still have the old shimstack. I still need to open them up to check for sure

You can order shims online for about 1$ a piece plus shipping. It's kinda a crazy price, but is worth it if the don't send you a few (they probably will)

 

Finally got around to measuring up and posting the ABS+ mini tuning kit shims.

https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/abs-tuning-kit-small-manitou.html

Contains 24 metric shims.

8x10x0.1 (x2)
8x10x0.15 (x2)
8x10x0.2 (x2)
8x11x0.5 (x1)
8x17.5x0.1 (x2)
8x17.5x0.15 (x2)
8x17.5x0.2 (x2)
8x19x0.1 (x2)
8x19x0.15 (x4)
8x19x0.2 (x4)
10x20x0.15 (x1)

 

Finally got around to measuring up and posting the ABS+ mini tuning kit shims.

That's a good deal, more shims and cheaper than from RSP 👍

 

I put oil in my air chamber to make it more progressive. Worked for a while, but now it is all gone. Guess I read some early posts in this thread and looked no further. In somewhat later posts it is explained how oil is gradually sucked down below the piston. So now I wonder, where exactly did my oil go? I have a Minute Pro with MARS air. I know that mullen119 has explained previously that it goes into the negative chamber, but is that so for a MARS fork? If I understand the anatomy of my fork it should first arrive in the chamber of the coil. If it is there, I guess it does little harm, but if it is in the negative it would reduce negative volume and make the fork harsh (and it is a bit harsh).

 

MARS has no negative chamber, so the oil flows down into the lower leg bath oil.

 

Hi, I'm in the process of upgrading my wife's hardtail with a machete with ABS damper.

Now that I have the damper sitting in front of me, can I get a suggestion for adjusting the shim stack (for now without buying a set of shims to play around with, but if necessary I can probably transplant some from a 2012 Minute Pro I have on the shelf) ) for a very light not aggressive rider?

Weight:48-49 kg
Trails: loose over hard interspersed with small rock gardens
Speed: low, still trying to get her to let the bike keep momentum over "scary" stuff and hope the new fork will help
Thanks!

(Side question: the blue damper oil that I poured out -with the intention to reuse) had a lot of micro bubbles. Was that due to the removal? Should I just use new oil?)

 

A picture to show what I'm working with:

On the left is the damper from a new 2018 machete 27.5 straight tube QR
On the right is the damper from a 2012 Minute pro 26

After measuring the stock shims, it looks like the machete comes with the production XC stack and the minute came with the trail stack.

Also of interest: The machete damper has a plastic piston as well as a different check valve design (drilled) with separate spacer to keep the spring centered.

My initial thought is to try the "EK-012611-03" (11x0.5, 19x0.2, 17.5x0.2) but am wondering about the effect of just leaving out the 17.5 speed shim and using (11x0.5, 19x0.2)

Without a set of thinner shims to try there's not much else on the table at the moment that I can think of.

 

View attachment 1258519

A picture to show what I'm working with:

On the left is the damper from a new 2018 machete 27.5 straight tube QR
On the right is the damper from a 2012 Minute pro 26

After measuring the stock shims, it looks like the machete comes with the production XC stack and the minute came with the trail stack.

Also of interest: The machete damper has a plastic piston as well as a different check valve design (drilled) with separate spacer to keep the spring centered.

My initial thought is to try the "EK-012611-03" (11x0.5, 19x0.2, 17.5x0.2) but am wondering about the effect of just leaving out the 17.5 speed shim and using (11x0.5, 19x0.2)

Without a set of thinner shims to try there's not much else on the table at the moment that I can think of.

I'm ~150lb-ish and my old/spare bike has a Minute Expert ('12) and I ran the 17.5x0.15mm speed shim without the 19mm shim. It will be more forgiving at low speeds (I have lots of rooty/rocky twisty singletrack) and feel fairly bottomless on bigger hits. If she finds it too unstable then you could try adding a thin 19mm shim.

 

Not sure if anyone is still reading this thread, but it has has been really helpful. My fork is feeling much better having long suspected it was too harsh for my situation.

On a side note, each time I crack the damper open (every once in a while) my oil level is higher. I’m guessing the oil is migrating from the lowers? Would anyone know what o ring to replace on the damper piston. This is on an OEM 2018 Mattoc Comp.

 

Any ABS+ tuners have any input on this stack?

Trying to put together a winter setup for a Machete 32mm stanchion 140mm travel, switched to RS 2.5wt Oil for winter. Running a Dirt Wizard 27.5x3 for winter. Looking for a plush setup with around 125N of platform that is very compliant on small bumps, but with great mid support and traction for winter messy conditions.

So far i have:

11mmx.5t clamp washer
13mmx.1t platform
19mmx.15t platform
19mmx.15t platform
10mmx.25t preload reducer
17mmx.15t speed
piston

If anyone with time tuning these stacks has any input it would be much appreciated!

 

Have you downloaded the Manitou tuning guide?

You can try my setup, it's one of the Trail tunes: from the clamp shim to the piston direction: 1ea 19x0.2mm, 1ea 17.5x0.2mm. This is very good and supportive ride, but I'm having issues at high speeds in rough stuff, it packs out. Might be my air pressure and/or reboumd. If you don;t go fast, you'll like it. Just my 2C

 

Currently I have a 120mm Machete Pro with ABS+ damper. Have been tryng different tunes for a while, for now running Trail stack: 1ea 19x0.2 and 1ea 17.5x0.2. It gives me enough brake dive and g-corner support, very smooth over roots and rocks at slow speed. I ride it with 2 clicks from full closed on LSC, like the way it is slightly overdamped, but opens up when hit something. I have pretty much dialed my rebound perfectly where I want it to be. My geared-up weight is 170lb, I run about 72psi pressure, which gives me about 24% sag. The only problem is that fork gets easily overwhelmed while going fast? (17+ mph) in the rough stuff, I can definitely tell it packs really fast. I never use up all 120mm of travel, maybe 105mm max. So my only option now the way I see is try to increase air pressure, and maybe decrease rebound damping one more click?

To answer all tech questions in advance: I run 87mm oil level, use Maxima 5w oil, cycle the fork to purge the air during the damper install and assemble the ABS+ damper correctly.

 

No sure if this is the right place to ask, but anyone knows if new R7 damper/spring are compatible with older 32mm forks?

 

The Expert air spring can be made to fit TS Air or ISO Air forks with some light engineering work (machining to air piston and lower legs). It is not a bolt in in any way.
The compression dampers are listing a change in threads. But it's going to be late August before we have production models in to confirm.

 

I have a Markhor that upon removal of the stock damper, the piston removed itself from the damper. I purchased the M30 ABS + damper and installed it with a linear stack up. After installing the damper, it seemed to have no damping whatsoever, and the adjustment on top seems to do nothing. I attempted to remove the ABS damper, and it came out without the piston and shim assy attached. Is it a known issue to have the damper remove the piston head when installing or removing the damper assy? The first time I adjusted the ABS shim stack, it was dry(new) with loctite on the nut threads. Is the ABS piston o-ring just too tight? I just hope that all the pieces come out when I drain the oil.

 

It happened to at least one other guy in this thread. I myself unscrewed top cap from the shaft. I think it happens if you rotate damper too much when it is already unscrewed. That nut should be tightned to something like 2.3-2.8 Nm. No need for loctite on the nut. When there is no difference when adjusting LSC knob (asuming shim stack is not too light) that is usually due to bent or improperly seated check valve shim (one under piston). That shim needs to sit on the check valve guide (black thing on the spring needs to go through that shim to keep it centered). Also if you did the upgrade from Kwik toggle you need to add some oil. Oil level should be checked every time you pull damper out.

 

From center top: nut, seat, spring, spacer and check shim. Which end of the spring sits against the check shim? The current Markhor manual states 92mm for the 80/120 with no change for abs. It also listed the Machete 90/120 kt or abs at 87mm. This is the only call out in the manual for abs oil level. What would you suggest for my 80mm Markhor? 92mm? 87mm?

Eta: In the tuning guide, it looks like the big end of the spring sits on the check shim. Is this correct or a case of a wrong graphic?

 

View attachment 1919014

From center top: nut, seat, spring, spacer and check shim. Which end of the spring sits against the check shim? The current Markhor manual states 92mm for the 80/120 with no change for abs. It also listed the Machete 90/120 kt or abs at 87mm. This is the only call out in the manual for abs oil level. What would you suggest for my 80mm Markhor? 92mm? 87mm?

Eta: In the tuning guide, it looks like the big end of the spring sits on the check shim. Is this correct or a case of a wrong graphic?

It looks like yours is little different than mine. Check this picture:
How to guide: Reshim your ABS+ HSC shim stack
Yours is on the left, mine on the right.
I never dealt with one like yours, but from what I can see from the post I've linked, proper order should be nut, seat, spring, check shim and then spacer.
Be carefull though before thighten the nut, cause usually it is quite obvious when something is not seated right. Check shim should sit dead flat, dead center on the piston.
Wide side of the spring sits against the shim.
Oil level should be 83 mm (or 80-85 mm range) for 80 mm and 100 mm travel.
Also from your photo it looks like check valve shim has small dent on the bottom of inside diameter. It could be just enough to let the oil bypass the shim stack. But maybe it's just the photo.

And just one more important notice. It could be the photo quality, but your damper, piston and shims (probably oil in general) looks full of dirt particles. It could also be something that prevent shims from being properly seated.

 

I am so glad this thread is not dead. It is great source of information.
I've found one more mistake in tuning manual. It is the CV-11411-05. I've tried it and there is no platform at all, so I assume there should be only one reducer shim instead of two. I ended up having 5 pcs of 19x0.2, 2 pcs 17.5 x 0.15 and 1 pc 17.5x0.1. I think platform is around 250 Nm. Just ok for stand up pedaling (there is small and slow movement). Running at max -2 gives great supprot. You can really lean forward and put some weight on the front wheel in the corners (I ride xc). On my usual trail I had two spots where g-outs would turn my stomach upside down. After I added velocity shims as mentioned above, it is all gone. Fork is little rough when trail gets chattery. Max -4 is really plush for gravel roads. So the range of setup is just what I need.
I am satisfied and don't want to change, but CV-11811-06 looks interesting.
It looks like max would give you some platform, and 1-2 clicks open would be almost linear? Anyone tried it?

 

I don't think that little nick in the check shim will be an issue, but I was going to see if I could flatten it back out a bit. The dirty look is the photo quality. My basement is not well lit. The fork has not even been ridden except for a few loops in the driveway to check the damping before hitting the trail. The check shim and spring both float around the spacer. Where are you getting 83mm oil level?

 

As for the oil level, Markhor, M30 and R7 (old not new one) are the same (R7 MRD is different!!)
Same info can be found here Manitou Kwik-toggle damper anyone?

As for the check shim, it needs to cover ports on the bottom of the piston.
If you rule out dent on the check shim and check shim is properly installed, then make sure oil level is correct and shim stack is firm enough.
What shim are you using for the shim stack?

 

As for the oil level, Markhor, M30 and R7 (old not new one) are the same (R7 MRD is different!!)
Same info can be found here Manitou Kwik-toggle damper anyone?

As for the check shim, it needs to cover ports on the bottom of the piston.
If you rule out dent on the check shim and check shim is properly installed, then make sure oil level is correct and shim stack is firm enough.
What shim are you using for the shim stack?

Covering the ports should be fine. Will double check later. My Markhor is newer production, but 5mm more oil surely won't hurt. I was going to try 2 17 x 0.25 shims instead of 3 17 x 0.20 as I put my other 17 x 0.20 shims into my Machete. I am going to try 17 x 0.25(2) and 17 x .020(1) a modified CV-11411-10. If I still don't like it, I'm going to try CV-11411-12.

 

Hey all,

Thought about posting a new thread but this place seems like the more appropriate place for my questions.
I have a Manitou J-unit 24 fork that's gonna be used on a 24" DJ type bike, so smooth trails and decent sized doubles, and possibly some street is the name of the game. The rider is rather light at about 55kgs.

The plan is to grab the tuning kit from ol' mate Dougal.
A quick squish indicates that the current tune (youth apparently?) will be a bit shithouse for fast, smooth and lipped jump lines.

Yes I have a copy of the tuning guide, and will start with the jump tune

What is the goal with damping curves for jump bikes? lots of support from the platform? any other considerations apart from 'hard as ****'?
Is the 120 psi pressure limit a 'hard' limit on the J-unit?
Any oil recommendations?

First time shim fiddler but I'm decent with mechanical stuff, graphs are my bread and butter and I like them.

Cheers.

 

Hey all,

Thought about posting a new thread but this place seems like the more appropriate place for my questions.
I have a Manitou J-unit 24 fork that's gonna be used on a 24" DJ type bike, so smooth trails and decent sized doubles, and possibly some street is the name of the game. The rider is rather light at about 55kgs.

The plan is to grab the tuning kit from ol' mate Dougal.
A quick squish indicates that the current tune (youth apparently?) will be a bit shithouse for fast, smooth and lipped jump lines.

Yes I have a copy of the tuning guide, and will start with the jump tune

What is the goal with damping curves for jump bikes? lots of support from the platform? any other considerations apart from 'hard as ****'?
Is the 120 psi pressure limit a 'hard' limit on the J-unit?
Any oil recommendations?

First time shim fiddler but I'm decent with mechanical stuff, graphs are my bread and butter and I like them.

Cheers.

Jump stack is incredibly stiff. I wouldn't put one under a 55kg rider unless they were mad-core.
I've been riding a bit of ABS+ lately and found two 17.5x0.1mm shims (no platform shims) were working well for choppy grade 5-6 trail. Anything more kicked too much. You can go much firmer on smoother trails with single big impacts.

The Youth Tune is:
8x17.5x0.15(2), 8x91x0.15,8x11x0.5mm.
I don't have a dyno for that tune. But I think it's a very good starting point for a jumping kid.

 

Tuning a new to me older Machete 120mm 29+ Boost fork that I've reduced to 100mm and upgraded to ABS+.
The aim is a better fork for full suspension single speed XC/marathon type riding than the Reba boost that was on it.
The Reba is lighter and 30mm less A-C.

I'm looking for a reasonable platform when locked out, supple up top but able to handle any surprises on the course or mistakes made in the latter stages of a 6hr.

Started with the stock trail stack (11x.5, 19x.2*2, 17.5x.2) as the stock XC stack had far too much platform and not enough velocity dependency (if I'm understanding that correctly?) for normal training.
The stock trail stack hasn't got enough platform.
Next test will be with 11x.5, 19x.2*3, 17.5x.2 to give some more platform and HSC.
At least that's the idea. Reality may be different.
I'm using a ShockWiz to help tune.

 

Next test will be with 11x.5, 19x.2*3, 17.5x.2 to give some more platform and HSC.
At least that's the idea. Reality may be different.

Right amount of platform, too much HSC. Felt very similar to the Reba.
Next is swapping a 19x.2 with a 19x.15 to soften the HSC and a thinner speed shim to bring a little of the platform I'll lose back.
In theory...

 

Oops. The rebound pop-off washer looked like a wave washer. Quite bent. That'll invalidate the previous tests...
Luckily I just got a tuning kit from Dougal.
11x.5, 19*.2*2, 17.5x.1 seemed quite nice. Won't get to test it properly before the race tomorrow night though

 

Oops. The rebound pop-off washer looked like a wave washer. Quite bent. That'll invalidate the previous tests...

The popoff cap/guide had pinched the centre of the slightly off-centre shim so it couldn't move...

 

Settled on my final(ish) XC/Trail stack.
11x.5
19x.15
19x.2
17.5x.15

Less platform than the stock XC stack and a little speed dependency.
Now just to play with pressure, tokens & rebound.

 

if you can't find a milo i think i have one in my bin. just saw you're in NZ, but the offer is still there

 

Got one in my bin too
Managing to get 8 clicks of the shifter from locked out to just over 1/4 of a turn more open.
I'll see this afternoon if the steps are suitable for racing.