So a bit of an update on my marvel pro, I have done quite a bit of testing... probably not consistent with my methods, and terrible with my record keeping but here is a bit of a run down.

So before buying shims my best set up was: 10.5x0.5, 3x 19x0.2 70psi - good platform, still had LO, railed corners, sat too low in stroke unless add more air, then lost small bump.
tried 10.5x0.5, 17x0.2, 3x 19x0.2, 17x 0.15 - better mid support, platform lacking, still had LO
tried 10.5x0.5, 3x 19x0.2, 17x 0.2 - no lockout, didn't even ride it
tried 10.5x0.5, 3x 19x0.2, 17x 0.15 -platform good, a little lacking, good for majority of stroke, needed a little more big hit resistence.
tried (jump stack with thinner velocity shim)
10.5x0.5, 17x0.15 4x 19x0.2, 17x 0.15 - better support whole way, but a bit dead/ wooden feeling, and had to drop psi- classic overdamped undersprung)

So its obvious I like a lot of platform shims, but I also want them to fully blow off before speed shims come into play... So I am thinking i need a 2 stage stack. but everyone that tried that has said they ended up with going for a straight linear stack... which doesn't sound like my sort of thing at all!

Other wise I think my best bet is 3x platforms, 1x .15 speed shim and then playing with the spring side a little to get me higher in stroke.... Either adding some grease/oil to reduce volume, or going to 120mm travel so its sitting at the right height in the midstroke and reduces bottoming.

Any hints on air spring mods? also how far do I have to go stripping the fork to change travel spacers?

 

Hi guys,

Just finished playing with my 2016 Marvel Pro. I bought it as 100mm for my Epic to replace SID with Brain. I recently bought another bike (BH Lynx) that has 120mm Fox Float CTD 32 fitted. I believe that when I tune the damper on Marvel I will end up with better and lighter fork. Conversion to 120mm was straightforward, then I removed the damper to check which variant is fitted.

As expected, it was XC tuned with stack of 4 shims 19 (OD) x 8 (ID). No idea about thickness of the shims (battery in my calipers gone dead...). Anyway, once I get different shims I'l go with trail or linear tune.

One thing I could not figure out is how to fit the damper back in. It will slide in just about half way, then it just will not budge. I didn't want to apply brutal force and decided to ask here. Is there some sort of trick? Keep wiggling from side to side and pushing down?

Any reply would be much appreciated.

Cheers.

 

Hi guys,

Just finished playing with my 2016 Marvel Pro. I bought it as 100mm for my Epic to replace SID with Brain. I recently bought another bike (BH Lynx) that has 120mm Fox Float CTD 32 fitted. I believe that when I tune the damper on Marvel I will end up with better and lighter fork. Conversion to 120mm was straightforward, then I removed the damper to check which variant is fitted.

As expected, it was XC tuned with stack of 4 shims 19 (OD) x 8 (ID). No idea about thickness of the shims (battery in my calipers gone dead...). Anyway, once I get different shims I'l go with trail or linear tune.

One thing I could not figure out is how to fit the damper back in. It will slide in just about half way, then it just will not budge. I didn't want to apply brutal force and decided to ask here. Is there some sort of trick? Keep wiggling from side to side and pushing down?

Any reply would be much appreciated.

Cheers.

Make sure the compression damper adjuster is in the open position, in the closed position with the STD shims it takes a lot to force oil past the preloaded stack. Might be the problem.??

 

Let me check after work - I'm sure I turned the adjuster to one of the stop positions,

but it is quite possible I've locked it fully rather than opened it.

Thanks for a hint, should've thought about it rather than swearing like a sailor.

 

This is the shim stack that i have liked the best for xc racing

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This is the shim stack that i have liked the best for xc racing

Thats a massive stack... can you identify what it is actually doing?? and explain it to me?

 

Mikros,
With regards to buying shims in OZ, I bought mine from Tecnik Motorsports online, however had to buy bags of 10. They only had 17mm ,not 17.5mm, somone else said the difference is barely noticeable, so thats what I went with. Ended up buying about $30 worth in the end.

So on that note, I have spare 17x 0.2 and 17x 0.15 and I also bought some 10 x.25 to try to use as clamp shims... but havent tried it yet.

If you like I can send you 2 or 3 of each $5 plus postage??? PM me your postage details if you are keen?

 

Can I get a recommendation for tuning my 27.5 Marvel Pro 120mm for dealing with roots? I seem to be deflecting off them rather than sucking them up. My current shim stack is pretty light linear tune but maybe I had too much air this day? I want to try again from scratch and need a good starting point.

Weight 140lbs
Terrain - aggressive XC primitive trails
120mm Marvel Pro on Ti hard tail 27.5
2.5 wt fork oil
Fox Gold semi bath

Current shim stack:
Clamp | 15x0.15 |17x0.15 | Piston
LSC closed or 1 click open
sag about 25% 65psi
top of air spring packed with Slickoleum, no oil on it as it blows by the seals quickly

Something just isn't right. It feels supple and moves on climbs, but then was deflecting off the roots, so counter to what I'd think. I have been setting rebound on the fast side thinking that is what is needed for roots but it has also felt bouncy.

I saw this recipe in a previous post and am going to try it out: "2.5wt fork oil with a 17x0.15 speed shim, a 11x0.1 spacer shim (to reduce platform shim preload) and a single 19x0.2 platform shim."

For this is the correct order:
Clamp | 19mm platform | 11mm spacer | 17mm speed shim | Piston


Anyway any suggestions appreciated.

 

Can I get a recommendation for tuning my 27.5 Marvel Pro 120mm for dealing with roots? I seem to be deflecting off them rather than sucking them up. My current shim stack is pretty light linear tune but maybe I had too much air this day? I want to try again from scratch and need a good starting point.

Weight 140lbs
Terrain - aggressive XC primitive trails
120mm Marvel Pro on Ti hard tail 27.5
2.5 wt fork oil
Fox Gold semi bath

Current shim stack:
Clamp | 15x0.15 |17x0.15 | Piston
LSC closed or 1 click open
sag about 25% 65psi
top of air spring packed with Slickoleum, no oil on it as it blows by the seals quickly

Something just isn't right. It feels supple and moves on climbs, but then was deflecting off the roots, so counter to what I'd think. I have been setting rebound on the fast side thinking that is what is needed for roots but it has also felt bouncy.

I saw this recipe in a previous post and am going to try it out: "2.5wt fork oil with a 17x0.15 speed shim, a 11x0.1 spacer shim (to reduce platform shim preload) and a single 19x0.2 platform shim."

For this is the correct order:
Clamp | 19mm platform | 11mm spacer | 17mm speed shim | Piston

Anyway any suggestions appreciated.

What's your air pressure? That's a very soft shim stack you're running already. It's likely not the damper.

How many CC of grease have you got in the air-spring? It's not too progressive?

 

Can I get a recommendation for tuning my 27.5 Marvel Pro 120mm for dealing with roots? I seem to be deflecting off them rather than sucking them up. My current shim stack is pretty light linear tune but maybe I had too much air this day? I want to try again from scratch and need a good starting point.

Weight 140lbs
Terrain - aggressive XC primitive trails
120mm Marvel Pro on Ti hard tail 27.5
2.5 wt fork oil
Fox Gold semi bath

Current shim stack:
Clamp | 15x0.15 |17x0.15 | Piston
LSC closed or 1 click open
sag about 25% 65psi
top of air spring packed with Slickoleum, no oil on it as it blows by the seals quickly

Something just isn't right. It feels supple and moves on climbs, but then was deflecting off the roots, so counter to what I'd think. I have been setting rebound on the fast side thinking that is what is needed for roots but it has also felt bouncy.

I saw this recipe in a previous post and am going to try it out: "2.5wt fork oil with a 17x0.15 speed shim, a 11x0.1 spacer shim (to reduce platform shim preload) and a single 19x0.2 platform shim."

For this is the correct order:
Clamp | 19mm platform | 11mm spacer | 17mm speed shim | Piston

Anyway any suggestions appreciated.

Sounds like you are too fast on rebound to me. Slow it down and see if it helps

 

I agree. If you're popping up off roots, you need some rebound in it. It's sometimes hard to separate too much compression, where the bike simply jumps up upon impact with the root (often harshly), vs. too little rebound where the fork absorbs the root but then pops up too quickly as the fork extends *after* the root.

 

I agree. If you're popping up off roots, you need some rebound in it. It's sometimes hard to separate too much compression, where the bike simply jumps up upon impact with the root (often harshly), vs. too little rebound where the fork absorbs the root but then pops up too quickly as the fork extends *after* the root.

I have found when people use the word "deflect", it is almost always a rebound problem. Rebound is always overlooked, but is just as, if not more important than compression.

I know quite a few people who run a single 17x.2mm shim in abs+ dampers. I don't think lack of compression damping is the issue.

 

Actually your shim stack is set rather soft but you may want to switch the 15 for a 13. Also open up your LSC a bit more.

Also since you've worked on your forms obviously did you pump your forks up before installing the rods into the lowers? If you did that's another issue. Forks should be mostly/fully compressed before installing air piston rod bolt or threading the damper rod in.

Also check your tire pressure, solid chance your running too high if your badly deflecting.

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Forks should be mostly/fully compressed before installing air piston rod bolt or threading the damper rod in.

No they shouldn't.

 

Ashwinearl

I bet that the shim stack is too light. That is why you have closed your low-speed compression. If you open up your lowest speed compression do you just blow through the travel?

What does the fork feel like when you're about four clicks from open on low speed compression?

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4 clicks from open dives very easily and usually leave the LSC closed or 1 click open. Yes, I agree that the shim stack is probably too light. I recall reading in this thread that with a linear stack, that the LSC knob has limited effect.

Regardless, I am going to try some different stacks and experiment again.

 

For XC, how do you recommend setting sag? ABS+ fully open , break stiction, and check in seated position? or standing?

Any suggestions for performing controlled testing away from the trail, such as riding over a two by four on the driveway?

 

I check sag standing, but it's a mostly useless number anyway, so don't put too much stock in it. Judge mostly by feel. Compression should always be open when checking.

There is no way good way to test at home. When you are on the trail, you are you going faster, bumps are randomly spaced and various sizes, shaft speeds are all over place. Hitting a random bump or two in your driveway just can't replicate what a trail is like.

 

Sag should be seated in riding position on the flat. In theory as long as you haven't locked out either end, the damper position won't make a huge difference, but some folks insist on doing it with adjustments at full open. I don't.

If you're experienced tuning, you can use a curb near your house, etc. I use the curbs around mine to get a first shot at it, and then I'm usually no more than a click away once I hit a trail.

I check rear rebound by riding off the curb in front of my house seated - adjust to taste. I ride up the curb to check compression (like our ABS+ knob) and again, adjust to taste. I try to do the same speed and same place each time. Front rebount isn't as easy since I don't have any root-like objects nearby, but you can still learn things from a rounded curb. Then you do some tweaks at the trail if you don't like where you end up.

 

I had herd somewhere that what you put in front of a shim will reduce it's platform. Going by this theory I came up with a stack that works quite well for me.

Im running a manitou minute expert 130mm with iso air and tpc damper.

I found 2 platform shims too much but one not enough.
Starting with the xc tune I went with 2 platform shims and put 3 or 4 speed shims in front (instead of just 2). This theoretically would make the two platform shims almost ineffective.

So I thought why not give the platform a little more help and put a 13 behind them and clamped it with a 1.1mm washer.

Seems to work great for me. I'm a heavier rider and the fork sits a lot higher in the travel without having to increase air pressure. Has a great pedal platform with just a little give for comfort without bobbing everywhere.

Doesn't dive everywhere and really handles most situations better than i ever hoped for. I haven't changed it as I can't really see how I can make it better than this.

Only running 75 psi with lsc fully open and reboud 3 of 7 clicks open.

 

i don't have any recommendations, but i'd shoot for a stack that allows my lsc to be midway. just so i could have a nice range for "those days". if your happy then i guess thats waht matters

 

Any suggestions on cleaning/checking the Rebound Assembly on a Manitou Marvel Pro? I don't want to retune it or change shims, just clean it and verify that the check valve is working correctly.

Thanks

 

Can somebody help me, please?
I can't pull the piston down from the rod. I've tried pulling it as hard as I can with my hands, I tried unscrewing it, but it just doesn't move.

What am I missing here? I don't understand what am I doing wrong. Isn't it supposed to freely slide down from the rod at this point?
I'm so frustrated. I am afraid to damage the piston if I try pulling it any harder than I do.

 

Yes, it is supposed to slide freely. Perhaps somebody has other suggestions, but I would support the piston from the edges and slightly tap the shaft end with rubber mallet. Sharp hits are better for braking free the seized stuff.

 

It's a new fork, I just bought it. Impossible that it's seized. Also, it's made from plastic, what is there to seize?

I will try your suggestion and report back, thank you.

 

Destroyed the rod tread by hitting it with a mallet. So much about my new fork...

I suppose I can't cut the damaged part of this? Does this bottom part touch anything when the fork bottoms out?

Edit: managed to save the tread luckily. The nut goes on the tread just fine, but I still didn't manage to pull the piston out.

 

Destroyed the rod tread by hitting it with a mallet. So much about my new fork...
View attachment 1162011 View attachment 1162012

I suppose I can't cut the damaged part of this? Does this bottom part touch anything when the fork bottoms out?

Edit: managed to save the tread luckily. The nut goes on the tread just fine, but I still didn't manage to pull the piston out.
View attachment 1162013

Try twisting the piston to break it free. I have come across some tight piston, but never stuck.

And for future reference, never hit the threads of anything. If you are going to do that, thread the nut on so you hit the nut, this protects the threads.

 

But write to Manitou technical support. This is not normal.

BTW what fork exactly you have? Does it have ABS+ or Kwik-Toggle lockout?

 

I destroyed the damper by hitting it with a mallet, hardly believe Manitou would cover this even if the fork was bought from the official distributor, which isn't the case. I bought it here, it has ABS+ damper: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Manitou-COMP-27-5-29-inches-100-mm-cone-tube-shoulder-controlling-gas-fork-fork-fork/32721289925.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.lFcyeY

 

Thats not even manitou more than likely, thats probably a counterfit otherwise it is a factory reject thats actually a pile of factory rejects slapped together and being sold by that seller illegally.

Never ever buy "branded" parts on alibaba. Rarely do you not have problems.

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I hear you, but when the damper is being assembled in the factory the workers slide the piston onto the rod. They make the rod in one piece and then the workers slide the piston onto the rod later. It's impossible that this is a factory reject or a counterfit. The damper is identical to the genuine one and the piston would never fit on the rod if there was a production error on it (extra material being on the part of the rod where the piston slides on type of error).

Hot water is good for removing stuck plastic parts. The plastic expands more with heat than the aluminium does.

I will try this and report back, thank you!

 

Hot water is good for removing stuck plastic parts. The plastic expands more with heat than the aluminium does.

 

Except both parts are aluminum not plastic, at least in real manitou forks

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ABS+ comes in versions with aluminium or plastic pistons now. Different price points.

It's a real manitou damper.

 

Didnt know they made plastic pistons in ABS dampers at all, thats a new one.

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Didnt know they made plastic pistons in ABS dampers at all, thats a new one.

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Maybe within the last year. So yeah it's a new one.

 

If it was simply slid on it would come right off [emoji14]

Aliexpress is literally worse than ebay and amazon combined for counterfeit, factory rejects and so on. A factory reject could simply be the batch has the issues you are having, so not user tunable as agreed. That piston being stuck could be from literally sitting in the mold for 3 seconds too long (i spent YEARS in plastics molding, 2-3 seconds, 0.05mm out of spec can me the difference between good or bad part thus reject or not).

Not saying Im 100% positive but Manitou handing off a ton of forks to be sold stupid cheap straight out of china...like thinking rockshox and fox forks can be found in legit form as well.

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Well, I am sure the rod is a single piece of aluminum so I don't see how else the piston can be installed other than being slid on the rod. Maybe the plastic is deformed in a way that the piston slides on the rod easily, but can't slide off.
The fork really was dirt cheap and even if I bought a new damper, I would still spend less than what the fork costs when bought at official distributor, this is one good thing about all this.

The hot water trick didn't work, the piston was still rock solid and not moving after being submerged 5mins in a hot water.

 

They make different versions for the SEA market
And KT damper has a plastic piston, by the way, so this one might be from the same mold, just removable (well, most of the time) and with a tuneable shim stack

X-fusion too has models won't see on their site being sold in China (X-32 EVO, for example)

 

What is the correct oil height for a 2015 Minute Pro? I seem unable to find that info on Manitou's pages or elsewhere. In the 2012 version it should be 87 mm and in the 2016-2017 version it is 75 mm. In mine it was 83 mm, after I had removed the damper and only spilled a few drops. I just bought it, but it is a model year 2015. I find the fork too soft for me, and perhaps it is because it has been running with too low oil.

 

On the M30 manual for 2015, you have the oil chart for all the forks of that year.
They usually don't change it anyway.
Your Minute Pro it's listed there, the oil level is 75mm.
Go check it yourself, just to make sure.

 

My current compression shim stack looks like this.
PISTON
17.5x0.20 (2)
19x0.20
19x0.15 (2)
19x0.10
17.5x0.15
15x0.10
13x0.10
11x0.50
10x0.15

The 10x0.15 obviously does nothing.
The fork has 100mm of travel.