The pro at least used to have a cartridge damper instead of the full leg full of fluid. Wasn't a big weight savings though, less than 100g iirc which is why I didn't bother paying the extra.

I don't know why manitou thinks the stock shim stack is a good stack for anything, it rides like a brick unless you have the LSC full or close to full open.

Surprised to see someone who spent the money on the full kit (that thing is expensive), probably have a lot more tuning options that way though!

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Surprised to see someone who spent the money on the full kit (that thing is expensive), probably have a lot more tuning options that way though!

I bought the full kit and fork for less than the price of a new Fox, so that made me happy. I've wanted to find the time to digest this thread, as I want to retune my Marvel from the stock shim stack. HSC seems to be too harsh as-delivered.

 

The full cartridge version was very finicky with oil level and prone to hydrolocking if not perfect. I think this is why they moved to a more traditional half cartridge setup which I prefer

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I've had no issues with mine personally, first I've heard of the regular version having issues. May be possible that the design was updated to correct those issues. My oil level is never "perfect" just good enough (between 85 and 90) and no issues so far.

I hated the stock stack, I don't even have a platform shim in anymore (went a small linear stack) and love it now. Run the LSC only a couple clicks open and love it now.

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Bunch of us just order shims.

Fox forks are INSANELY priced lol. Plus manitou IMO does a better job of taking "Clyde level" riders into account for their designs and user tuneability. At my weight my forks work amazingly well compared to anything I've demoed (fox and rockshox)

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So does anyone have any time on the newer Minute Pro at 140mm? I remember hearing some guys complain that the old Tower Pro was very noodly at 140mm for bigger guys when pushed hard. I am in need of a new fork and seriously debating on going with the Minute (as per Manitous recommendation) or going with the 27.5 Magnum Pro at 140 with a standard 29er tire/wheel setup.

I am 180lbs outta the shower and ride pretty hard in the Tahoe area. Hence wanting to move up to the 34mm stanchion. Currently WAS running a 2011 Revy RL at 140. Not afraid to play with the shim stack and on of the Manitou techs I talked with said he could help me with a better trail tune for my size if I didn't like the initial tune.


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Ok, so the 4 shims on the marvel pro must have been a design decision. It effectively allows a full lockout, which I guess might be desirable for some in an XC fork. I purchased a few shims and ended up with:
11x0.5 - support spacer
17x0.15 - platform
19x0.2 - platform
10x0.1 - spacer to reduce platform shims stack preload to 0.2mm
15x0.15 - speed
17x0.15 - speed
This gives a ~120N platform with LSC needle closed, which seems enough platform for seated pedaling for my 65kg. At 4-5 clicks from open the small bump sensitivity is still decent but it certainly doesn't wallow under normal pedaling. Doesn't bottom easily off small drops. I might try reducing the platform shim preload another 0.1mm at some stage.

 

The marvel pro I have, had an 11x0.5 clamp/support shim on top of the 4 x 19x0.2mm platform shims.

 

Yep mine in the picture did not have a clamp shim, just the 4x 19x.2

 

That's differebt because I don't even think mine had 4 platform shims new, 2x 0.2 and clamp shim iirc

Last I thought (I'll have to look it up) 4x 0.2 is the jump stack.

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Hi everyone. I've been watching this thread for a while, as I have a 2012 Marvel Pro that I intended on tuning. I used to tune car shocks for a living, so when I saw that this thing was tunable, I jumped at it.

I've had the fork for nearly three years now, and I'm finally getting around to tuning it. When I bought the fork, I also bought the official Manitou tuning kit.

Tonight I pulled the damper out, and what the... I don't have anything like what I've seen in this thread, and it appears that just about everything in the tuning kit is for something else. I've attached a better photo than any I could take of mine - credit for the photo goes to Chain Reaction Cycles, which is where I got all the parts.

I'm going to check the shims that came with this fork (there appears to be just one shim to the naked eye, but we'll see) to see where I'm starting. Has anyone else opened up this fork and worked on this particular piston and damper? I totally didn't expect this. I admit I haven't read all 23+ pages in this thread, but what I have read didn't show anything like my damper.

Thanks for any insight or tuning tips you might have for this one. I was going to just add a shim to reduce the preload on the stack (I believe it was going from XC code that ends with 03 to the one that ends with 04 in the tuning guide), but now I'll have to come up with a new plan.

Cheers!

 

You have the cartridge version of the damper. It's the same thing, but uses 6mm ID shims instead of 8mm because of the smaller damper cartridge. Not sure what comes in the tuning kit, it may not be compatible.

 

Thanks, mullen. Yep, there is NOTHING in the kit that is compatible with the possible exception of the check valve shim. Which, of course, doesn't really matter.

Below is a picture of the disc stack that came with this fork. I measured them as follows, starting from the left to the right:

9 x 6 x 0.25
14 x 6 x 0.21
14 x 6 x 0.21
9 x 6 x 0.25

I didn't measure the check valve shim. Those 0.21's might be 0.2's; can't vouch for sure for that kind of accuracy.

Time to surf this thread to find where I can buy 6mm shims. Pretty sure I saw recommendations in there somewhere. I was thinking now that I could have put the two 9mm on the same side of the stack to reduce the preload, but then 1) that might be too drastic of a change, and 2) I suspect the 9mm farthest from the piston is being used as a fulcrum disc to control the deflection of the 14mm discs. Taking that away would probably made a lot more change than I was going for.

 

Send me a pm, I think I have some 6mm ID shims and nothing that uses them. I can go through them and send them to you. I just need to see what I have in 9-14mm OD sizes.

 

CTB-
6mm ID shims can be had from;
Revalving Shims

I played with various thickness of preload reducer shims, even a 0.05mm difference caused a noticeable change to the platform force. Shifting both of your 9mm OD shims below the platform shim would likely remove most all the preload and leave no available platform. On the large diameter ABS+ stacks, the piston has a 0.6mm lip that the platform shims preload against, not sure if the preload piston lip height is same for the smaller cartridge stack.

 

On the large diameter ABS+ stacks, the piston has a 0.6mm lip that the platform shims preload against, not sure if the preload piston lip height is same for the smaller cartridge stack.

Oh man, I completely forgot to measure the depth of the land on the piston. I was going to do that but it went right out of my brain. I'm quite sure it is a smaller lip than the large piston, but "quite sure" isn't very accurate. I'll measure it once I have some shims and do some tuning.

Dougal, right now I run the fork wide open. I'd like less HSC than I have now and to perhaps shift the range so that I can run the fork more in the middle of the clicks so that I have at least some adjustability both ways.

 

That's the older cartridge damper for minimal oil volume and weight. The newer forks are using a smaller diameter rebound piston but normal diameter compression.

What are your main goals?

 

Another thought: this link
Manitou's Marvel Pro and Real Custom Tuning - Eurobike 2011 - Pinkbike
shows what looks like my fork on the outside, but then shows the in-leg version of the ABS+ damper. Since I already have the tuning kit with all kinds of shims and pistons, is there any reason (other than the few grams of weight that I don't care about) that I wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't change my fork over to the bigger piston system (non-cartridge ABS+)? I'd need the rebound assembly as well, but I don't know that they would fit into my 2012 model.

Edit:
It looks like I would have been better off getting the Expert model instead of the Pro model. The Expert appears to have everything needed to use my tuning kit. I bought the Pro because I thought it was exactly the opposite. I'm going over the parts schematics now, but it looks like I just could use Expert guts and be good to go. Ain't that a kick in the head.

 

That would depend if your stanchions are taper wall inside or not. If they are then you'd need the cartridge rebound shaft of the new type. This will give you a small daimeter rebound piston but full diameter compression piston.

I need to order some of these parts myself so I can verify fitment.

 

Based on the 2012 service manual that Manitou has online (and mine is a 2012), the Pro and Expert share stanchion/crown assy's.

Common parts:
Crown assy: 141-28131-K010
Knob kit (rebound): 141-28131-K017
Outer Casting (sliders): 141-27988-K019

The parts above are for a white 120mm QR15 tapered Marvel.

Non-shared parts:
ABS+ damper (Expert): 141-28532-K101
ABS+ Cartridge damper (Pro): 141-26532-K009
Rebound damper (Expert): 141-28131-K018
Cartridge Rebound (Pro): 83-3282 (?)
Cartridge tube for 120mm tapered stanchions (Pro): 141-28131-K002

It appears that the Expert parts can go into the Pro stanchions based on this.

Mullen is very kindly sending me some shims, so I'll at least be able to tune what I have a bit and see what I find. (Thanks!)

 

What ptfe are you guys using on the legs?

 

I must say that I didn't get the question. If it was about the assembly lube then I'm using Rock'n'Roll Superslick on various seals. It works fine. Now I got Slickoleum and will try to see how it works.

 

So to follow up with my post above:
My goal was to reduce the overall amount of compression damping so that I could be at least a couple clicks into the middle of the adjustment range on the Marvel.

First I tried by simply removing one of the 14's from the disc stack.

9 x 6 x 0.25
14 x 6 x 0.21 <-- removed
14 x 6 x 0.21
9 x 6 x 0.25

That was comically plush and made the front end feel like a gumdrop in the sun. It absorbed everything, but the bike was dead as heck. You couldn't pop the front end up for anything. I finished that ride with the compression adjuster one click away from lockout, just to make it feel barely acceptable.

So happily one of the discs that Mullen sent me split the difference nicely. I believe it was a 14 x 6 x 0.10, so I added that in.

Now we're talking. After a lot of rides on it, I'm on the 2nd or 3rd click from wide open on the compression adjuster now, and the ride quality is excellent without being dead. I'm very happy with this. Mullen, thanks again for the discs!

9 x 6 x 0.25
14 x 6 x 0.21
14 x 6 x 0.10
9 x 6 x 0.25

 

I have a problem with my minute comp 140. Fork is new and worked before i started tuning.... pulled out damper unit and removed one shim from my trail stack. Put damper unit back and now The abs+ lever dont work. No lockout or increased compression.

Put The shim back again and check oil level. Cant find anything wrong.

Have taken it out 20 times now but cant find anything wrong. Now when i push hard on the fork it locks out after some cm. If I push slowly on the fork i cant feel any lockout or change in compression. Tried 85-90mm in oil level.

What is wrong?

Best regards

 

I have a problem with my minute comp 140. Fork is new and worked before i started tuning.... pulled out damper unit and removed one shim from my trail stack. Put damper unit back and now The abs+ lever dont work. No lockout or increased compression.

Put The shim back again and check oil level. Cant find anything wrong.

Have taken it out 20 times now but cant find anything wrong. Now when i push hard on the fork it locks out after some cm. If I push slowly on the fork i cant feel any lockout or change in compression. Tried 85-90mm in oil level.

What is wrong?

Best regards

It's likely a shim isn't centred or is damaged, letting oil bypass. You'll have to take it apart, spread it all out carefully and check all the pieces.

 

Could it be the thin shim that lets oil flow back after compression? The one that has a small coil. Not shim stack. That one has a smal damage.

Thanks for quick reply!

 

That'll do it. It'll bypass oil on compression and rebound if it doesn't seal.

 

Great! I try that tomorrow. Any idea where to get a new one or is it possible to get it straight igain?

 

Problem solved! Straighten the shim a little and put it back and now it works! Thanx for the help!

I think the fork is a little to progressive. Can i change coil on a ts air? Or does it help with a more linear stack?

 

Problem solved! Straighten the shim a little and put it back and now it works! Thanx for the help!

I think the fork is a little to progressive. Can i change coil on a ts air? Or does it help with a more linear stack?

Yes you can swap TS Air for the ACT coil. I'm not aware of any different rate negative springs for the TS Air though.

I've never ridden a TS Air fork properly. My own Manitou forks are MARS, coil or Dorado Air.

 

Ok! So shim stack has nothing to do with progressive fork at all? Did i understand correct that i can buy only the coil from an act air fork and put it on my ts air?

I weight 80 kg geared up and have 60 psi at the moment. Only 10h on the fork so far so maybe it loses up little more with more hours.

 

Thats interesting you say that, because in my opinion Fox compression damping is useless and feels dead, but then again the latest model fox stuff i have is 2013 evo CTD... reknowned as rubbish.
I personally feel that the piston porting in the minute pro with all combos of shims i have tried is better than the Fox forks I have owned.

Also I switched my shims back to 3 x19mm, and I tried my rusty old verniers on them again. they are definitly more than .1mm and less than .2mm thick. and I measured all 3 stacked together to be a bit over .4mm so I am thinking they are .15mm.

So as mullens said the old XC stack of 2x .2mm thick had a stiffness of .16, and the recommendation was to go back to 1 shim and being a stiffeness on 8. My original stack of 4x .15mm had a stiffness of 13.5 ( less than old XC stack) going to 2 x .15mm was too soft, it was stiffness of 6. so 3x .15mm is a stiffness of about 10.

3 shims will have to do until i buy some more shims of other diameters. I rode it yesterday arvo with 3 and its not too bad, but could improve a bit.

 

Well guys,
After a month or so of riding my Rocky with the Marvel pros 'borrowed' from my hard tail, and Fox not being very useful with repairing my other forks I have bought another set of Marvel pros
In the meantime I bought digital calipers and about $30 worth of shims from a motorbike suspension shop, however they didn't sell 17.5 OD, i had to buy 17mm OD shims( I wonder how much that will affect it??).
So last night, I popped open the brand new and unused Marvel pro, measured everything up and set a shim stack to test. I can confirm that with both 2016 Marvel pros the standard shim stack is 11*0.50 clamp, 4x 19*0.20 platform. (NOT 19x0.15 like i had guessed)
On my other fork I was reasonably happy with running 11*0.50, 3x 19*0.20 (CV-11411-07) at about 3 clicks from Max, however I felt I wanted something with a little less platform and a little bit more linear. I actually considered the Jump stack, but I wanted that little bit more platform for XC, as I said before 2x 19*0.20 was not enough platform for me.
So after looking at the graph at top of page 12 of the tuning manual seeing the difference between adding a 17.5*0.15 and 17.5*0.20 I decided I'd put a 17*0.15 next to piston.
So my stack ended up being 11*0.50, 3x 19*0.20, 17*.15.
I am going to hit up my local XC track this afternoon for about an hour or 2. I know the fork will need bedding in. (It has that horrible topping out thud that happened on my other fork, which tricked me into running too much rebound)
I can't wait!!!!

Also I would love to increase travel to 110 or 120mm, but I dont feel like stripping it and loosing all that brand new unused oil just yet.

I forgot, for the record I got the kitchen scales out and checked some weights.
The old 2013 Fox Float CTD 29er 100mm with 15mm axle installed and tapered steerer cut to 195mm weighed 1710g
The New 2016 Marvel pro 29er 100mm with 15mm axle installed, tapered steerer uncut, 1780g, and cut to 188mm 1752g.

So very minor weight penalty over the fox... and website spec sheets are wrong (as usual)