Called Manitou about the 130mm upper stanchions, Manitou only makes the Circus 130mm in Tapered.

So...

Edit: Deleted: forget all that. Was emailed a coupon for 25% off items over $200 at PP. So what did I do... Picked up the 2013 Minute Pro for $210; and, it has no frame to go on right now!

Just got my Circus Expert in the mail today, and ordered another fork :yesnod:

Edit2: Where can I get a medium spring for the Manitou CE?
...

Kind of OT: I'm getting a Samurai with a 44mm x 114mm headtube, I would like to use the 'Cane Creek AngleSet Headset' so I can play around with the angle of the fork.--Deleted irrelevant sentence--.

 

I'd like to order some shim to ABS+ for MX-tech, but they need ID (internal diameter) of shims, is the anybody know this diameter.
Fork: Manitou Tower Pro 2011 29" ABS+

 

8mm

 

8mm. I order my shims from RSP. They have a larger selection of shim thickness, id, and od.

 

thanks, can you give me any link to RSP?

 

Revalving Shims

 

what about torque for the nut on the bottom of the piston?

 

http://www.manitoumtb.com/assets/Service Manuals/2012 Service Manual.pdf '12 manitou manual, but should still be fine

 

I have this manual, i think about nut on damper.
See below

 

That nut should be torqued to 2.3 - 2.8 N*m (20-25 in*lb) (source: email from Manitou Support)

 

Ok, thanks.
I checked offer MX-Tech and RSP- i can't find shim OD 17,5mm. If i use shim OD17mm or 18mm what is change in curves? i think about:
CV-11311-01 Production “Trail Stack”
11 x 0.5t x (1)
19 x 0.2t x (2)
17.5 x 0.2 x (1)
or
CV-11411-12 Linear
13 x 1.1t x (1)
13 x 0.1t x (1)
17.5 x 0.20t x (3)

 

Ok, thanks.
I checked offer MX-Tech and RSP- i can't find shim OD 17,5mm. If i use shim OD17mm or 18mm what is change in curves? i think about:
CV-11311-01 Production "Trail Stack"
11 x 0.5t x (1)
19 x 0.2t x (2)
17.5 x 0.2 x (1)
or
CV-11411-12 Linear
13 x 1.1t x (1)
13 x 0.1t x (1)
17.5 x 0.20t x (3)

I use 17mm od for the "speed" shims and would recommend that over a 18. The piston has a shoulder on it that is used to preload the 19mm shims. The speed shims sit down inside this pocket and if it is too large is will start to restrict flow between the edge of the shim and the piston shoulder. I'm not even sure an 18 will fit down in the pocket without resting on the radius of the shoulder corner. RSP will make you 17's, just add them to your cart.

 

The change would be insignificant.

 

ok, thanks.

 

ok, it a little problem with order, i'm from Poland- but i think i can do it

 

Good day

i've just stumbled upon this thread looking for info to maximize my fork. Wow what a wealth of information this thread has! Quite overwhelming for someone like me, im no suspension engineer, but im learning!

I have a 100mm minute 29er from 2011. I think this became tower pro. It has abs+ damping on it. I weigh about 180lbs. This fork came with a medium spring back in the day. While it was awesome for plushness and all, i felt it didnt give enough rate to push the airpiston back. I was using 85-90psi.

I ordered the firm coil to stiffen things up , found that the air piston breaks away easily now which i prefer, but i was not using most of the travel even when i decrease psi to 75.
I measured my overall travel , its around 87-90mm with a little play. Not sure if its the small spring sandwiched by the blue rod and air piston OR the firm coil. Also not sure if the conical bushing on the compression rod OR the 5cc of oil is decreasing max travel by almost 10mm.

Basically with this 90mm travel i have, i am not getting even 75% of that, at my weight with firm spring plus 75psi. Running the abs+ fully open and rebound at 1/8from fast.

I am now looking at changing shimstacks. Im gonna assume i have an xc stack because when its full locked. . . It is Locked. It doesnt budge and i dont even try to break that lock. At max-1 i have little movement. Max-2 and max-3 opens it up a bit but still dampens. Max-4 to fully open feels all the same.

I would like to retain the lockout feature, i assume that means retaining one of the big shims? But i would like to maximize of whats left with my travel as well. Is this possible? To make the fork lock a bit, at MAX but for the fork oil to gush in with ease at the early to mid part of the travel WHEN FULLY OPEN then ramp up before bottoming out? Or is this too much to ask for this fork?


thanks!

 

The small spring is a negative spring, doesn't affect travel. I don't believe the bottom out bumper is taken into acct when measuring full travel, so that shouldn't affect it.

How are you measuring full travel? Letting all the air out and compressing?

90mm of travel on a 100mm fork sounds typical. Rarely do you use full travel except on the hardest high velocity hits. I say go back to the medium spring and add some low speed compression to keep it from wallowing and riding higher in the travel.

 

I say go back to the medium spring and add some low speed compression to keep it from wallowing and riding higher in the travel.

This. You've got a spring setup issue, not damping.

 

...

 

i measure the upper lip of the dust wiper to the bottom of the o-ring/oil line it smears on the stanchion

yes matt, i let the air out and compress. but i dont think i've emptied the oil in the air piston everytime i measure.

alrightie, I will go back to medium and bump the psi.

also i realized ive recently converted to tubeless same time i changed the spring. i was normall running 32-35 psi with the medium set up. and now im in 25-28. does that affect the fork at all?

thanks guys!

 

also i realized ive recently converted to tubeless same time i changed the spring. i was normall running 32-35 psi with the medium set up. and now im in 25-28. does that affect the fork at all?

thanks guys!

No, shouldn't... Will affect overall handling, but not fork performance.

 

Decided to revive this thread. Mainly because Clydes can use the info from my tweaking. Not to mention, but HONORABLE mention to the OP (mullen) for being a huge help with getting the initial stages of dialing this fork in. Never had a decent fork, much less something with more than a simple rebound and lockout knob,lol.

Im 270lbs just got a Marvel Expert 29" couple weeks ago. Now that air spring is set, travel options have been tried (you can go 18-90-100-110-120 by simple changing spacers on the compression rod) and oddly enough set back at 100mm (stock for frame anyway).

TIME TO PLAY WITH DAMPERS!!! First thing I noticed, rebound adjustment I had to max out since Im running a bit higher air pressure in the spring, otherwise it would have kind of a "thud" feeling when front tire left the ground.

Temp fix (I can open it 1-2 clicks now before I start getting thud): remove rebound rod, take off nut and remove thick washer and thin one below it, reverse their install. Thick first then thin, then nut. That helped a good bit. going to 7wt (Maxima "Racing Zero Friction" stuff) oil helped a tad more. Dont want to go higher as I dont want to throw the compression damping all over the place.

Ordering shims tomorrow probably. Wish MX had more options, RSP charges $12 for shipping in the US!!! $12.00 for a padded envelope that costs $2 to ship lol. So shipping rather high at RSP plus 0.20 more expensive for shims. STILL cheaper than $180 for the Manitou kit,lol. Gonna check with LBS since the tuning manual has spec numbers for shim set ups, maybe its cheaper that way.

Once I have shims in hand Ill update first about rebound damper changes to balance out air spring pressures for us big guys, then Ill start playing with the ABS+ itself lol.

 

Ordering shims tomorrow probably. Wish MX had more options, RSP charges $12 for shipping in the US!!! $12.00 for a padded envelope that costs $2 to ship lol. So shipping rather high at RSP plus 0.20 more expensive for shims.

MX Tech's shipping is high also. RSP has a better selection and really the only advantages to MXT is if you buy bags of 10 shims. Not much we can do about though. It's well worth the investment. You can really transform how the damper works with a 5 min revalve. The trick is first knowing what you want to change and then formulating a stack to get there. Lots of smart folks here that can help you with that and flatten the learning curve, and save you some money on shims.

The Marvel comes with a XC stack, which is great if you like pedalling platform and a super rigid lockout, but at the sacrifice of small bump and square edge compliance. What is your experience level and what type of trails do you ride?

It's been awhile since I've had the rebound piston apart, but I don't at all follow what you did with the shims. I remember there being a single heavy (0.3mm thick) shim in the rebound stack that should be right up against the piston face. The smaller shim would be what you call a clamp shim. Your stack may have been installed incorrectly from the factory. At your weight, you will definitely want to revalve the rebound stack. However, the harsh top out is more so do to the negative spring being to soft. This is a common problem with this type of air spring design for heavy riders. Keep in mind you are way outside the as designed target rider weight. Be careful using rebound damping to tune this out as you may end up with too much low speed rebound damping.

 

Thnx for the advise. My rebound is thick shim on check valve side (full open under compression stroke) then thin 19mm shim ,then a thin 12 or 13mm shim, a thin clamp shim, then clamp washer. I have been running it almost all the way or all the way and kills most (or all now) of the hard rebound. Wish I could figure out how to find a better neg spring for that but oh well.

As for Trails, upper midwest singletrack, few rocks, tons of roots, well groomed and maintained.

I dont ever use the lockout though except stand and mash on pavement. Never used lockout on trails. I did notice how strong it is though. ROckshox TK system I can shove hard on the forks and get it to budge, this feels like hitting a rigid fork when locked out,lol.

I have everything set so I run lever in middle, trail chatter is pretty decent with right tire pressure now, cant complain. Short, steel, rooted climbs are much nicer now feel more in control. Just that initial hit at speed that the platform catches...want to take it down just a tad. Im working on reading through this thread o get an idea of what changes what combined with tthat manitou manual that is linked here (printed that off).

All I know atm is the rebound needs a little more dialing, think I know how to fix that to desired setup now, just ABS need to sort out best way to maintain a little platform (guessing I can do this partially with lever) for the long climbs but rest more "trail" I guess would the term so faster hits are a bit softer.

 

OK so it hit me a little while ago:

With ISO air (ya a tad off topic but this could play a part in damper tuning) the negative spring has basically a piece of rubber automotive hose thats on the compression shaft.

http://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/2014-Aftermarket-Fork-Travel-Adjust-Guide.pdf

Scroll down to ISO air section and ull see. Spacers for travel setting sit above it then it and neg spring. Ill have to do some measuring on the spring to make sure, but (using a spare made from automotive hose, fuel or transmission not sure which till I tear into fork) can go a bit shorter, increasing preload on neg spring. May screw with travel a bit but if I go a full 10mm shorter I can add another travel spacer to compensate. Can probably find smaller spacers if I need to. I considered spacers that would fit over the rubber but that causes concern on integrity of the spacers and possible fork damage if it was to fail since it will be rather thin walled.

I had no idea the neg spring would effect damping ("Duh Im slow today" moment when I read it and it hit me). Messing with that will effect both so going to play with that a little first. Leaving stock one untouched in case experiment doesnt work, if it does then Ill modify stock one accordingly. Thankfully I dont need trails to test this matter, my yard and street with be plenty.

Man I need a bike stand so I dont have to take the forks off everytime I mess with internals.

 

Talking to manitou, the neg spring isn't meant to be messed with which is why there isn't a different spring rates. Warranty void if I do, so not happening.

With that went to tune rebound side, damn if i didn't bother asking or measuring...10mm shims. Then in frustration put back together and forgot to tighten nut. Dont do that u have a hellva time carefully getting piston and stuff back out when u realize it and it un screws as u remove the cap. Just going to leave it as it was till seal cage time.


Onto tuning abs+ went smooth. Have plenty of shims now. Thnx for the info here big help in hopefully nailing this right the first time.
Sent from my Nokia Stupid Phone using Tapatalk

 

Figured id throw an update in.

Tried a higher platform version of trail stack (3rd platform shim). Ride was a bit rough (initial hits) but could practically ride locked out lol. Open a couple clicks rode pretty nice. Liked it except 0 lockout basically.

Tomorrows test, kinda split the stack using a .15 preload reducer above the speed shim. Have a fair bit of platform at lockout (can stand and mash without compressing the forks alot) but rides really nice 2-3 open.

Unsure how much ill actually care about the lockout platform but option is there now.

See how this split stack thing does on trails that have more techy stuff tomorrow.
Sent from my Nokia Stupid Phone using Tapatalk

 

This isn't quite related to the tuning of the ABS+ damper but a simple mod you can do to increase the resolution of the damper adjustment knob. So instead of the normal 8 clicks, you get 16. What you do is take the red compression damper knob off of fork and arrange the ball/spring detents to sit at 90deg from each other instead of the normal 180deg. In essence it gives you half click increments vs what you had stock. It will allow you to fine tune your damper even further than you could before.

 

Added 10 clicks for a total of 19 on my Circus Expert :ihih:

Edit: 178lb without gear, started with Production Jump Stack. Now experimenting with; x1 Clamp Shim 11mm x 0.5t, x3 Blow-Off Shim 19mm x 0.2t, x1 Velocity Dependant Shim 17.5mm x 0.20t. It's close to what I'm looking for, a bit of a mixed Trail/Jump fork. Might trade out one of the 19x.20t for a 19x.10t.

Edit2: As far as my last post, seems that if you take the bumper out and don't put it on the bottom of the piston flange, there will be negative space between the air piston and the spring, by about 1.8cm. This is bad!

 

Interesting. I initially thought the detents are evenly spaced. If they are odd in numbers, your simple mod will make sense. I removed the detent balls before, while it provide fine tuning, it was also easy to accidentally turn the abs+

 

There is not many users of Manitou on this forum so I really didn't want to make a new thread and my question I think is simple, just need some other users experience or knowledge...

If the large spacer is not put on the top of the piston(red arrow), will this soften up the firm spring on the manitou circus and still be 100mm travel, or will it be bad for the fork to not put on the large rubber pumper?

 

There is not many users of Manitou on this forum so I really didn't want to make a new thread and my question I think is simple, just need some other users experience or knowledge...

View attachment 936938

If the large spacer is not put on the top of the piston(red arrow), will this soften up the firm spring on the manitou circus and still be 100mm travel, or will it be bad for the fork to not put on the large rubber pumper?

You should start a new thread. But in that position it is 100mm travel. Spacer below the top is 80mm travel.

 

Just got my first Manitou fork since late 2012 when I sold my Drake that started this thread. Did a revalve and when reinstalling the damper, messed with different placement of the spring/bearing set up. If you instal the two balls with two open spaces between them, it you you a solid 17 clicks of low speed that are evenly spaced. probably overkill but it can hurt. Good find!

 

Nice! There have been times were I wanted half a click.

 

Surprised it took so long for someone to figure that out.

Started my tuning with your suggestion of a single 17 x .2

 

I have a 2014 marvel pro 29 on the way. I didn't know in order to tune, it costs $200 for the kit. I thought the shims would be like $20 or something, lol. hope I like it stock.

can I buy shims individually? I weigh 138 lbs and looking for plushness and small bump sensitivity. I'm coming from a dual air reba rl and looking for more of the above than it gave me.

 

I thought the shims would be like $20 or something, lol. hope I like it stock.

can I buy shims individually? I weigh 138 lbs and looking for plushness and small bump sensitivity. I'm coming from a dual air reba rl and looking for more of the above than it gave me.

Shims are cheap. It literally costs more to ship them than it does to buy them.

MX-Tech Suspensions

I'm sure I've seen links to other suppliers somewhere, but I can't find them at this moment.
I got my shims from a local motorcycle shop, they practically gave them away.