[SuperWookie]

So now that both my brakes work flawlessly (after a long and testy period of problems), I am finding that these brakes are so strong and lock up so quick, that I can easily Endo from squezzing even the slightest bit too hard on the front brake.

I have the MT7 brakes with the HC 1 finger levers.

So I've been doing some research, but not finding the answers I'm looking for. I'm trying to figure out HOW I can make these brakes have better modulation and not lock up so fast. I can't "feather" the brake very well, so as to get a large range of braking power. It's not exactly ON or OFF, but it's pretty close. And I recently rode my buddies bike real quick just to test something else out and noticed that when I pull on his brake levers, they don't lock the wheel up. In fact, they "grip" the rotor for quite awhile before the wheel will lock up. And I was thinking, "this is what I need on my front brake!" Because I've almost endo'd a few times now since getting my new master cylinder from Magura last fall. They are SO strong that it's way too easy to accidentally grab too much brake or get your hands jarred from bumps or chunk while at fast speeds and accidentally grab too much brake and almost fling myself over the bars! It's scary!

I'm a little confused by what little info I've found on the topic. For example, I've read that the longer/straighter HC-W lever gives better modulation. But then also read that it or other levers that are long and straight like it, provide MORE power. Which I don't want. I want less power and more modulation. So just wondering which levers might give me better modulation? Are there any settings I can change on the lever or master cylinder? Will different brake pads change it?

Just want to figure out what I can do to make these amazing brakes have more modulation. More ability to have pad grabbing rotor for longer periods, but not locking up until the VERY end of the levers travel. So that I have more control over scrubbing speed and not having this ultra powerful ON/OFF type feel that is very dangerous.

 

[Sparticus]

In my case (using Shimano Saint brakes w/220mm rotors), I've chosen to look at the situation possibly differently than you do, Wookie.
I've decided that modulation is in the finger, not in the brake. Learned to use a delicate touch.
I want superpowered brakes specifically so that my hands don't get tired while rippin' down multi-mile steep descents.

So I took the time and made the effort to train my brain rather than weaken my braking power.
Which leads me to the next conclusion I've drawn: that 'power' and 'modulation' are at opposite ends of the same continuum.
Choose one or choose the other.

Other riders may disagree with this conclusion. This is okay. In my universe, my beliefs function well enough for me.
Whatever you decide to do, best of luck to you and good braking.
=sParty

 

[Nat]

In my case (using Shimano Saint brakes w/220mm rotors), I've chosen to look at the situation possibly differently than you do, Wookie.
I've decided that modulation is in the finger, not in the brake. Learned to use a delicate touch.
I want superpowered brakes specifically so that my hands don't get tired while rippin' down multi-mile steep descents.

So I took the time and made the effort to train my brain rather than weaken my braking power.
Which leads me to the next conclusion I've drawn: that 'power' and 'modulation' are at opposite ends of the same continuum.
Choose one or choose the other.

Other riders may disagree with this conclusion. This is okay. In my universe, my beliefs function well enough for me.
Whatever you decide to do, best of luck to you and good braking.
=sParty

I agree

 

[Jayem]

I've found the faster I can deliver braking, the faster I can ride, so I generally want a powerful brake that quickly slows me down, especially on the terrain I ride.

That said, I don't want the rear brake to lock too easily, since that will just drag and decrease traction. Running the same rear caliper and same size rotor on the rear can cause this. You sometimes need extra heat dissipation on the rear...but not necessarily the same caliper/rotor, because that'll just lock when braking force transfers weight forward. So some ideas for that are a 2-pot rear caliper with the same size rotor, or smaller rotor, except you gotta be careful you aren't giving up your heat dissipation. A TRP 2.3 rear rotor might help with that obviously.

 

[slimat99]

If mt7's only locked up at full pull they would feel really weak at speed and on steeps. I have hope tech4's now which have some of the best modulation on the market and I can still lock the front before full pull. Good modulation doesn't mean you'll never get more power than you want. Good modulation allows for finesse and abrupt power. You're tapping into mt7's abrupt power when you don't need it. Learn to finesse your fingers and you'l find mt7's have great modulation.

If you are running organic pads you can run full metal and weaken the initial bite but I still say work on your fingers. Light pull until you need more power. Nothing to it.

 

[yzedf]

Try going down a rotor size

 

[Nat]

And I recently rode my buddies bike real quick just to test something else out and noticed that when I pull on his brake levers, they don't lock the wheel up.

What brakes does your buddy have?

 

[gasmanxj]

If you have resin pads switching to metal can help reduce the initial bite. Downsizing rotor as well if you are running 220's (I personally wouldn't go smaller than 203/200). But MT7's are powerful brakes so ultimately most of the modulation will come from training the finger. My 140lb wife runs Saints and 203 rotors, first few rides she was like WTF but loves them now that she's adjusted.

 

[shakazulu12]

In my case (using Shimano Saint brakes w/220mm rotors), I've chosen to look at the situation possibly differently than you do, Wookie.
I've decided that modulation is in the finger, not in the brake. Learned to use a delicate touch.
I want superpowered brakes specifically so that my hands don't get tired while rippin' down multi-mile steep descents.

So I took the time and made the effort to train my brain rather than weaken my braking power.
Which leads me to the next conclusion I've drawn: that 'power' and 'modulation' are at opposite ends of the same continuum.
Choose one or choose the other.

Other riders may disagree with this conclusion. This is okay. In my universe, my beliefs function well enough for me.
Whatever you decide to do, best of luck to you and good braking.
=sParty

I'm in this camp. Way less fatiguing over the course of a ride. You get used to it pretty quick.

 

[Mac_89]

Sintered pads will give you less bite but it's mostly in the fingies.

 

[Nat]

Try going down a rotor size

That might not be a bad strategy if you're having a hard time training your finger to not pull so hard. Downsize the rotor until you get used to them and find yourself wishing for more power, then go back to the bigger rotors.

 

[slimat99]

Longer levers in your case might worsen the problem because you're pulling too hard too soon. You will get more power with more leverage. When a rider has a good feel for finger pressure longer levers can feel like they add modulation and more power. Personally I think all brakes should have the longest practical levers.

Shimano likes their shorty levers to show they don't need leverage to produce class leading power. It's all in the cam. I feel short lever blades with a cam makes for difficult brakes to modulate. I ran Shimano for years and shigura's. I've dialed in manual modulation as well as I can. I much prefer engineered modulation which mt7's have. Dancing around the servo cam power curve is easy enough it just feels very unrefined compared to linear brakes like mt7's that build power intuitively from initial bite to lock up. They are powerful so getting more clamping force than you want is going to happen until you dial in your fingers.

 

[dreys]

Get HC3 levers, you can dial up or dial down modulation to your liking.

When properly setup, even HC1 levers should have a very good modulation before locking up wheels. Did anyone squeeze your levers before installing wheels?

 

[11053]

MT7s are one of the most "powerful" brakesets available.
Yes, they can be grabby and "lock" rotors at slow speeds and on flatter terrain if you just grab lever.
Performance and feel will be different on steeper and faster terrain- plenty of finesse and modulation and control of traction in those scenarios.
Sounds like it's too much brake for your riding preferences and the way you like to pull levers?
As suggested, maybe work on adjusting braking technique because those brakes aren't going to get any less powerful if set up correctly.
However, if you have the model without the contact point adjustment(BAT), installing the BAT adjuster is an easy/quick "upgrade" that can alter lever feel and perceived initial "power".

 

[Tim-ti]

I find pad compound has about the most significant effect on grabbiness. I suggest finding out which you have, and researching alternatives.

 

[landcruisin]

No one has mentioned it yet, but body position and picking where you brake on the trail are just as important. I don't know how you could endo a modern bike these days unless you're braking right into a wheel sized divot, or you're braking while sitting on the saddle. Don't do either of those things, train your fingers as others have mentioned, keep riding.

 

[SuperWookie]

Get HC3 levers, you can dial up or dial down modulation to your liking.

When properly setup, even HC1 levers should have a very good modulation before locking up wheels. Did anyone squeeze your levers before installing wheels?

I find pad compound has about the most significant effect on grabbiness. I suggest finding out which you have, and researching alternatives.

So I have MTX Gold in the front and Red in the back, based on MTX's suggestions. They are definitely better than the stock Magura's. Plus they said the Gold's are better in the front (can't remember why now, haha). I ride medium to steep fast terrain usually.

I'm not hearing many suggestions about how I can adjust the modulation through other parts (levers/pads). So that's kind of disheartening. And everyone is just saying the same thing: "get better and learn to pull less." But that doesn't make sense completely. I've read many reviews of different brakes and some say they have better modulation then others. Like I remember I was going to get the Hayes A4 Dominion brakes for this bike (I built it from scratch and got almost every single part I wanted, except the Hayes brakes). But they were always out of stock and Hayes didn't get them back in stock till like 6-8 months after I finished building my bike. And I remember reading reviews about those brakes and how they were not only super powerful, but also had really good modulation. So I feel like it IS possible to have powerful brakes and have great modulation. But it seems like you guys are saying no? That it's just technique.

And like I also mentioned, Magura and maybe 1-2 other places have a tiny bit of info on modulation and they keep saying longer levers help with that. But that the downside is possible arm pump. Which I don't care about. But then one of you said longer levers is just going to make it worse? Even MORE of an ON/OFF feeling? Which is once again, confusing. This is info straight from Magura's website for the long 2 finger lever: 2- or 1-finger lever blade offering a longer grip area, softer bite point and increased leverage for excellent modulation.

So just confused why everyone is saying "get good" instead of offering actual lever/pad suggestions or somehow adjusting the brake? Maybe I'll just contact Magura myself and see what they say. Although thank you Dreys and Tim-ti. I'll have to look into that and ask Magura if they think it will make a big difference or if it's more technique? Thanks

 

[SuperWookie]

No one has mentioned it yet, but body position and picking where you brake on the trail are just as important. I don't know how you could endo a modern bike these days unless you're braking right into a wheel sized divot, or you're braking while sitting on the saddle. Don't do either of those things, train your fingers as others have mentioned, keep riding.

I'm 6'8", so NO modern or ancient MTB has enough stack and reach for me to even be close to fitting IN a bike like the rest of you do! I'm WAY up in the air over the bike. Even in the aggressive attack position, I'm still way higher on the bike then the rest of you standing up. It sucks. So sometimes when I've had to brake hard or accidentally hit the front brake too hard, I can and have went over the bars! I'm not IN the bike, I'm ON top of it. And it's the largest bike I could find. An XXL Megatower. I even have my fork at 170mm of travel, which raises the front end a bit and slackens out the HTA a bit. Which in theory should help even more, with not Endo'ng.

I'm not breaking into a wheel sized divot, I know to brake before turns, or trouble, etc. It's just that sometimes, the brake is so touchy, that I can accidentally grab too much. Or like I said have my finger bumped while going through some chunk or large bumps and grab too much front brake. It happens to everyone. But I guess I'll just have to "get good" as everyone around here likes to say

 

[shakazulu12]

I've had Maguras and in no way could I endo from a full speed pull (I have a Shigura setup now that's even more brutal). Lock up the tire and push it maybe. But to actually endo, I would have to be way over the front, on pavement, and not going very fast while absolutely grabbing a fistful of lever. Most responding with technique comments probably have similar experiences, that's why they are saying you should work on technique. You would have to literally hamfist the brakes into a ditch to do that in most cases with normal riding technique. You may not like the feel of touchy brakes, and that's totally fine, but how you are describing the nature of them doesn't really jive with how most of us know brakes to work out in the real world. Best you can do is get different levers and adjust them a bit. Which Magura does offer. But most would consider your "problem" a good thing.

Reading what I wrote, that sounded kinda condescending or assholeish, which isn't my intent. Tone doesn't carry well on the internet.

 

[SuperWookie]

I've had Maguras and in no way could I endo from a full speed pull (I have a Shigura setup now that's even more brutal). Lock up the tire and push it maybe. But to actually endo, I would have to be way over the front, on pavement, and not going very fast while absolutely grabbing a fistful of lever. Most responding with technique comments probably have similar experiences, that's why they are saying you should work on technique. You would have to literally hamfist the brakes into a ditch to do that in most cases with normal riding technique. You may not like the feel of touchy brakes, and that's totally fine, but how you are describing the nature of them doesn't really jive with how most of us know brakes to work out in the real world. Best you can do is get different levers and adjust them a bit. Which Magura does offer. But most would consider your "problem" a good thing.

Reading what I wrote, that sounded kinda condescending or assholeish, which isn't my intent. Tone doesn't carry well on the internet.

I didn't think you sounded like an a$$hole. Just stating facts or a common opinion. But I'm not like most people. My height is a HUGE disadvantage for MTB'ng and I'm learning that everyday I go ride. Just read my last post and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I've been out of DH action for about 1.5 months now because I had a nasty crash in April from my front wheel greasing out on the backside of a jump trail. Got a bad concussion and separated my collarbone from my shoulder joint. So I can only ride trail type stuff for now. But every time I ride this bike, I learn something new, and how I have to adapt, because of my height. Being super tall isn't as "cool" as others think, haha. And I have to work a LOT harder than others to learn how to ride properly on this beast of a bike going down steep terrain at speed and also learning how to jump.

I probably am just looking for something that either doesn't exist, or would take another 120 bucks to make slightly better (new levers). I already have fantastic metal pads from MTX up front, which one of the guys above said helps a lot with modulation. So can't do anything there. And not sure I want to drop another 120 bucks on these already insanely expensive brakes just to "maybe" make them better. I'll ask Magura if they have any suggestions and if they think it would make a big or small difference and go from there. Guess I'll also just to get better at being much more subtle with my finger pulls when braking. Thanks for the info