[happyriding]

Are you pulling the big-big in tight enough?

I'm confident that I did. I used the Park method where you pull the chain tight and hook the chain on the big chainring. I marked the chain length ( a Q-tip jammed all the way through the link worked well) then I rechecked the chain length a couple of times before cutting the chain. I'm not adverse to breaking the chain and rechecking the length, though. I'll try to get a picture. I break chains and rear derailleurs often enough that I'm used to running chains with multiple connection pins.

I thought about the problem for awhile, and I decided that the derailleur's capacity is a misleading number for bikes with rear suspension. Here's my reasoning: Suppose you have two bikes with identical setups, but one bike has 1 inch of chain growth when the shock is fully compressed and the other bike has 12 inches of chain growth. If you measured the chain length for each bike with the bike's suspension fully compressed, the second bike would have a chain length that is 11 inches longer than the first bike. Obviously, each bike would need a derailleur with a different capacity, yet the capacity calculation would be the same for each bike.

As a result, I think if you are near the maximum capacity of a rear derailleur, you cannot know if the derailleur will actually work with your setup.

I would like to be able to use a GS, my SGS tends to hit rocks.

Bummer. I was very happy when I did the capacity calculation, and I thought a GS derailleur would work with my crank and cassette.

 

[Joel_l]

I got tired of pins. I now use this 10 speed chain on my 11 speed setup, works fine. When it wears out I might try the 11 speed version. The 11 speed version they say to not reuse the links, I have had my 10 speed chain apart multiple times no issue.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00643Z6WO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I got my XCg V2 in today and mounted. I'm not sure how you are getting a washer behind yours. With no washers, fit my bike fine ( close ).

 

[happyriding]

The 11 speed version they say to not reuse the links

If you mean that you are not supposed to break an 11 speed chain at the same rivet, then that is what the Shimano Tech docs recommend. But as far as I can tell, there is no difference between the tech docs for Shimano's 11 speed chain and the tech docs I have for my 10 speed chains. I would of course break my 11 speed chain at a different link than where I connected it.

I'm not sure how you are getting a washer behind yours. With no washers, fit my bike fine ( close ).

The MRP docs said something about having to move the bash outboard by 4.5mm, but there were only 3 x 1mm washers for each of the three bolts, so I put three washers on each of the bolts. Then I found out that the heads of the crank arm bolts hit the heads of the bash bolts, so I removed one washer from each bash bolt.

 

[Joel_l]

The KMC chain does not use a pin to join the chain, they use a reusable link ( except they say not to reuse the 11 speed link ). Don't know that you really couldn't. I like the KMC chains much better than the Shimano ones.

 

[happyriding]

I've never had good luck with KMC links, although I've never used a KMC chain. One time a KMC linked chain fell off my touring bike and was laying in the highway behind me, and on my mtb a KMC link caused clicking noises in the drivetrain. I did start carrying a KMC link in my pack after I broke a chain twice in one ride and I ran out of pins.

I just went to investigate buying an 11 speed KMC link to carry in my pack, and the description says:

* Opening tool required.
* NOT re-usuable

Huh? Why the f would I ever buy one then?

Here's the MRP description that I referred to:

For 2x10 cranks, in most cases, you'll want to space the backplate 2mm (+/- 1mm) outboard from the face of the BB shell on a 73mm shell or 4.5mm (+/- 1mm) from the face of a 68mm shell.

I figured that a bash guard has no idea whether a crank is a 2x10 or 2x11, so I thought that description applied to my setup, and the HD3 has a 68mm BB.

 

[happyriding]

Hmmm...I wish I had read post #1502 in the HD3 build thread. That guy thinks his chain is too long with a GS rear derailleur and a 1x setup.

 

[Joel_l]

The only down side to the SGS is it takes more of a beating. Mine is not too bad yet, this is a few weeks of riding. The other issue is, at least for me, when ever I do fall ( not often thankfully ), my bike almost always lands on the derailleur side. So far I haven't hit anything bad.

As far as chain, opening tool makes it easier but it is doable without. The 11 speed thing is why I have stayed with the 10 speed chain. In a pinch, I would not hesitate to reuse the 11 speed link though. I do keep a spare 10 speed link in my pack just in case.

Hmmm...I wish I had read post #1502 in the HD3 build thread. That guy thinks his chain is too long with a GS rear derailleur and a 1x setup.

 

[happyriding]

The only down side to the SGS is it takes more of a beating.

I have an SC aluminum bike, and I broke the swing arm a couple of times, so SC sent me a carbon swing arm. Unfortunately, the derailleur hangers for the carbon rear were made out of much softer metal, and I started snapping derailleur hangers left and right. Is that a problem with your SGS rear derailleur on your HD3?

 

[Joel_l]

Nothing bad has happened on the HD3 yet. I will probably order a couple to have as spares.

My other bike, Ican S7, I bent the hanger in a fall. It was ductile so was able to grab the derailleur and pull it back out. I got a couple spares for that bike just in case. Making them out of something that breaks is a bad material choice.

 

[happyriding]

I will probably order a couple to have as spares.

I bought 3 extras when I ordered my build kit. lol.

Making them out of something that breaks is a bad material choice.

That is by design. The hanger is meant to break to protect your frame. It's much less costly to replace a $15 hanger than the whole rear swing arm ($500?).

It was ductile so was able to grab the derailleur and pull it back out.

I've been able to do that before, but I found that within a short time the metal fatigued and broke.

 

[happyriding]

For 2x10 cranks, in most cases, you'll want to space the backplate 2mm (+/- 1mm) outboard from the face of the BB shell on a 73mm shell or 4.5mm (+/- 1mm) from the face of a 68mm shell.

I thought about that some more, and the ISCG05 plate is already 2.5mm out from the face of the BB shell, and with two 1mm spacers on each bolt the backplate is 4.5mm out from the face of the BB shell, which is the number of spacers I ended up using.

I don't think it matters if the bash is as close to the chainring as you can get it, though, and you could argue that without any spacers the bash has less leverage on your BB shell, thus making the bash more solid.

 

[Joel_l]

Maybe, why not just bend? Saved me a long walk. But you are right, making it weaker than the frame is good, I like bend.

---That is by design. The hanger is meant to break to protect your frame. It's much less costly to replace a $15 hanger than the whole rear swing arm ($500?).---

 

[happyriding]

To contribute to the greater knowledge of mankind, I broke my chain, removed my shock again (!#$#@$), and remeasured my chain length. Here's a pic:

That reconfirmed that I measured my chain length correctly the first time. I determined that the HD3 has two links of chain growth, so you could measure the chain length for an HD3 by going around big-big with your shock fully extended then adding 4 links.

Then I installed an SGS rear derailleur, and it barely takes up all the slack in small-small.

 

[Joel_l]

My chain is 56". When I'm big-big, the chain is running nearly strait through the cage ( hardly any jog between derailleur pulleys ). When I'm on small-small, if I back pedal, the chain will rest on the chain stay. I think my 34x46 to 24x11 makes mine pretty extreme, but not worried about breaking anything.

 

[happyriding]

Yeah, I noticed earlier that you were running a 24Tx46 small gear. I've never met anyone that runs a smaller gear than me. I've been running a 22Tx36 on my 2x 10 speed, which is equivalent to a 24Tx40 on a 27.5 bike, and you've got a 24Tx46 gear with your setup. The GS derailleur has a maximum stated capacity of 39T and you are well beyond that at 45T.

I was tuning my drivetrain this afternoon, and I ended up having to remove all the washers/spacers on my MRP XCg V2 bashguard because the chain was rubbing the bash in my low gear(24Tx40 combo), so now my bash is setup the same way as yours, and I have barely 1mm of clearance in my low gear. I did use the smaller bolt that MRP gives you for the top hole on the ISCG05 plate. The longer bolt looked like it was going to hit the frame if I screwed it in all the way.

My drivetrain still isn't sounding very good. With the GS derailleur I had on there before, I got the drivetrain tuned pretty quickly, but I have brakes installed now, and I'm getting some rotor rub, which adds to the cacophony. I just need to get my dropper setup, then I'll be ready for some test rides.

 

[Joel_l]

I went to a really low low because of my knees, they're still original and I want to keep them that way. I can push taller gearing but on really long climbs ( which I like to do ), my knees would get stiff and hurt till they popped. With my 24x46, I'm just slow but can climb till I run out of steam rather than when my knees hurt.

The way I have my ISCG adapter on, it is the front lower bolt that needed to be short I found an ISCG spec drawing that shows that the rear lower hole should be 50* CCW from a line drawn through the center of the BB and rear axle when suspension is fully extended. The first go I had it where it sounds like you have yours now,and yes, the top bolt would hit the frame.

Hope you get that bike sorted out soon so you can ride it!!

 

[happyriding]

I finally got my drivetrain adjusted properly. I find it remarkable that I can use either chainring on the whole spread of cogs without any rubbing on the front derailleur. That's quite a step up from my 10 speed front derailleur, yet my 11 speed front derailleur cost me only $5.60 new. I'll have to order a backup.

I can also back pedal in any combo and there isn't even a hint of tickling that might suggest the chain isn't perfectly seated. That is the reason I went with a 2x11 setup rather than a 1x11.

Thanks to everyone for all the advice on the correct hanger/crank combo, which allowed me to get my drivetrain working incredibly well on the first go round of purchases.

Hope you get that bike sorted out soon so you can ride it!!

Unfortunately, only street rides for now. I'm in a concrete jungle, and I won't get near some dirt for awhile. In the meantime, I can work on manualing and wheelying.

I found an ISCG spec drawing that shows that the rear lower hole should be 50* CCW from a line drawn through the center of the BB and rear axle when suspension is fully extended.

Do you have a link? I followed MRP's instructions, which, if I remember correctly, said the top hole on the ISCG05 plate should be at 1 o'clock.

 

[Joel_l]

Looks like 1 o'clock lands about the same place. If the guard is where you want it, I would not worry about it.

 

[happyriding]

I'll just leave it--I'm not taking off my shock again. When you service your shock for the first time, you will be in for a real treat. The bolt hole on the top of the clevis/shock mount angles towards the seat tube, so I couldn't get any tool to fit in there--I tried three different tools: a Park allen key set, a torque wrench, and a ratcheting wrench.

With the shock deflated, I had to remove the shock's front/upper mounting bolt, then swing the front of the shock down, then jam a wad of paper towels between the clevis and the down tube in order to make room for a tool to get into the top bolt hole. And when I jammed the paper towels between the clevis and the down tube, the shock's adjustment knobs threatened to gouge the down tube, so I padded the down tube. But reversing the process wasn't really feasible. When I torqued the clevis/shock mount bolt to spec, then I couldn't align the front of the shock with its mount.

The first time I removed the shock, I left the clevis/shock mount bolt loose, then mounted the front of the shock, then I had to sit on my bike and compress the shock to get clearance for my torque wrench, then reach down and try to tighten the clevis/shock mount bolt to spec.

The second time I removed my shock, I took apart my Park allen wrench, and I found that a single allen key had just enough clearance to fit in the top bolt hole on the clevis/shock mount. The Park allen key is straight, and it has a loop of metal on the end, so I inserted a screwdriver in the loop, and I used my torque wrench on the clevis/shock mount's bottom bolt hole to tighten to spec. I guess I need to buy a single allen key for the top clevis/shock mount bolt--the kind that has a 90 degree bend.

 

[Joel_l]

Hmmm, I've had my shock off several times. I used an "L" allen on top and a ratchet with a hex driver on the bottom. When I want to check the suspension, I just remove the front bolt and drop the front. I have to guide it a little but the suspension bottoms out with the shock still mounted at the rear.

I have a 1/4" drive ratchet and torque wrench. The heads on them are compact and have no trouble fitting.

The torque wrench goes to 16.9 NM, so covers the bike. I also use my calibrated elbow a bit.