I'm glad you're happier with each new ebike.

 

Sounds fun when I age out. I'm only 54 though.

 

I never understand the "ill get an e bike later" mentality. If you are interested and have the available cash, then get one now. Life is about fun, live it!.....

It also doesn't mean you have to stop riding mtbs. Just ride more!......

 

I've heard the surron are amazing.

 

I've heard the surron are amazing.

Now you are be silly.

How can I poach illegal trails that requires lifting bikes over locked gates and fences with a heavy af surron?

 

Sounds fun when I age out. I'm only 54 though.

I've heard the surron are amazing.

If not a fan of ebikes, then why hang out in ebike forum?

 

Nice to see you enjoy a sense of humor

 

What do you ride now? The Pole is gone?

Let’s see pictures.

 

Pole is decommissioned.
180mm Crestline is in.

 

I like his spirit!

 

Would be fine. But no one is allowed to have more fun than plummet. And if he wouldn't have fun doing something, there must not be any fun to be had for anyone. At any cost!

 

I love my Trek EXe! It gets better with each mod.

 

It’s a plummet thread. He literally asks for it. Every two weeks his newest bike is the latest greatest brain melter

Would be fine. But no one is allowed to have more fun than plummet. And if he wouldn't have fun doing something, there must not be any fun to be had for anyone. At any cost!

Jesus, you guys have been married to each other too long!

I think plummet and I are knuckle dragging DHers, so we're adverse to Type II fun, whereas some of you on this board appear to embrace type II fun so much you do it whilst wearing pink lace

 

Jesus, you guys have been married to each other too long!

I think plummet and I are knuckle dragging DHers, so we're adverse to Type II fun, whereas some of you on this board appear to embrace type II fun so much you do it whilst wearing pink lace

 

Slow your roll, you’re a lil’ too excited when that weight is still 48 lbs. IF it feels to be that drastic of feel to you, it's most likely the bike design.

Most of my compadres, most over 65 and some over 70, have all bought e-bikes. Most still ride their regular mountain bikes 80% of the time but a pole say they’ll never ride their other bikes again. I’m currently on a trip with them in Caliente, NV and headed to Hurricane tomorrow. The speed they carry is next level as they ride away on climbs with little effort.

I’m researching e-bikes to have for trips where I ride with other ebikers. I rode one the other day and anyone who says you get the same workout is full of excrement. It LOOKS very similar to a mountain bike but the ride effort required is closer to a dirt bike than a standard mountain bike. They both have full power bikes and based on posts on read on here, the handling on faster, tight, downhill sections is something I’m concerned about.

 

rode one the other day and anyone who says you get the same workout is full of excrement.

From my very scientific 5 year testing of ebike vs regular bike riding fitness using myself as a sample size of 1, I believe it is possible to keep up your cardio using an ebike, but it's not possible to keep climbing strength without at least equal parts regular bike.

 

While not an ebike owner or overly interested right now I'm in here reading reviews for future purposes. I enjoy hearing people talk about the weight differences, have 2 batteries vs 1, etc. When I do stop enjoying the type II fun part of it, climbing and pedaling are a huge part of the enjoyment and mental health benefit I get out of mtb right now, I will have no issues picking up an E. Honestly, I am well aware a single year out in the PNW and I might have one depending on what the group of homies i ride with does.

When I do buy one, I will be well informed from all of plummets testing. I appreciate the sacrifice he is making for all of us!

 

Dependent on the terrain you have an E opens up more technical climbing possibilities. So it can actually enhance your climbing joy by getting you riding track that you once bypassed because it was too steep and not enjoyable or physically impossible on a regular mtb. This ride here on my daughters E before I bought my own E really opened my eyes to what was possible.
I rode up this dried up river bed for several km and about 100mtr vert. It was full of soft sand or baby head sized rocks.... It would neither be enjoyable or practically possible on a regular mtb. But on the E it was a blast. It was physically and technically difficult and I got that climbing sense of accomplishment when I completed it.

 

IDK about that red fork tho plum

2 hrs and over 3K climbing with a 400 battery? hmmm, even at 70nm(and how much power?)that sounds optimistic. Mine has max 60nm/350w and I'd get half that w/360 battery. I'm sure bike/rider weight is more for me I'm no flyweight but still, maybe the new CX motor/battery is more efficient?

 

That was based on an actual ride. 912mtr climbing, 1 hour 42 mins moving time. 17% battery left at the end. That ride would have been half 70nm setting half emtb which is 85nm with a smattering of boost and no motor.

PS, I im not sold either on the red fork/ green bike combo.... It wasnt my choice, That's how it came, and im all out of cash to change the fork out just for colour reasons.

 

I dont have an ebike, but someday i might. For now i like climbing, and not being completely sure i am going to make it to the end of the ride. That could change in the future though.

I think the big next thing with ebikes will be regenerative braking. Maybe something similar to some locomotives where you basically have 2 separate sets of brakes, and can choose by scenario. Or maybe it will ne some sort of automatically blended braking. Who knows?

 

To reiterate, it doesn't have to be all-or-nothing. You can own both a regular bike and an e-bike. I think most of us do.

Regenerative braking would be cool.

 

Between the weight diff and new battery tech that makes sense, no way I'd get that at those power levels tho with my 360 battery

 

Motor smarts too i reckon. I'm cleaning stuff in my tour mode 70nm that my mates on boost mode can't. So i carry on cruising up the hill in a lower power setting while they are burning turbo and then having to walk sections and burn turbo to catch up.

Also terrain will play a big roll in this. That ride i list is two of my hike a bikes on the mtb. It just goes up and gets steeper and steeper. There is literally no flat cruising. Its all up and down with some pushing with walk mode. So there is very little motor energy burnt that is not adding to vert meters.

I did another ride that had 580mtr climbing, 1 hour 33 of moving time and 36% battery left.

So the 2 hour mark seems realistic for a run time on 400wh running. 1000mtr vert will be dependent on motor burn not contributing to vert meters.

PS i'm 77kg in my birthday suit.

 

Slow your roll, you’re a lil’ too excited when that weight is still 48 lbs. IF it feels to be that drastic of feel to you, it's most likely the bike design.

Most of my compadres, most over 65 and some over 70, have all bought e-bikes. Most still ride their regular mountain bikes 80% of the time but a pole say they’ll never ride their other bikes again. I’m currently on a trip with them in Caliente, NV and headed to Hurricane tomorrow. The speed they carry is next level as they ride away on climbs with little effort.

I’m researching e-bikes to have for trips where I ride with other ebikers. I rode one the other day and anyone who says you get the same workout is full of excrement. It LOOKS very similar to a mountain bike but the ride effort required is closer to a dirt bike than a standard mountain bike. They both have full power bikes and based on posts on read on here, the handling on faster, tight, downhill sections is something I’m concerned about.

Yes its still 48lb and not its not mtb weight and yes some of it is bike geo and kinematics but at the same time a drop from 56lb to 48 is a fair change and for me it is a game changer in grin factor.

Also i dont think anyone who owns a E says it is exactly the same work out. Quite clearly it is not. Your response is typical of someone who jumps on an E and goes for a quick burn on it and proclaims you will loose fitness. You need time on the bike and to learn how to use the bike to augment your existing riding. I'm convinced that riding both mtb and E provides the best fitness outcome.

I dont have an ebike, but someday i might. For now i like climbing, and not being completely sure i am going to make it to the end of the ride. That could change in the future though.

I think the big next thing with ebikes will be regenerative braking. Maybe something similar to some locomotives where you basically have 2 separate sets of brakes, and can choose by scenario. Or maybe it will ne some sort of automatically blended braking. Who knows?

One of the most surprising and best joys of emtb is to be able to climb trail that you couldn't do on your mtb. It opens up new, technical steep climbing that is hyper challenging and fun.
Enjoy climbing?. Then an E can throw you a new learning curve, new trail and you can still do the tradition stuff on your mtb.

Its just a different tool with a different set of variables.

To reiterate, it doesn't have to be all-or-nothing. You can own both a regular bike and an e-bike. I think most of us do.

Regenerative braking would be cool.

100% this. An E does not have to take over your mtbing. Its just another tool to enjoy. To augment your mtb with.

Today i dh race..... Tuesday i'll be on the mtb for the weekly ride with the lads. Come next weekend i'll do an e session or who....
Life is good.

 

I saw the light once, and I said **** that and I came back.

 

I saw the light once, and I said **** that and I came back.

Hehehe, Fair enough.

 

42 miles, 5700' climbing today on the gen4 levo. Dog will hunt.

 

How much battery charge did you have at finish?

 

So I just returned from a trip to Caliente, NV and Hurricane, UT where I had the opportunity to ride my friends ebikes. One has a brand new YT Decoy with a Shimano 750W motor and 170/170 travel, the other guy has a new 2024 Pivot Shuttle AM with the Bosch CX 750W and 160/148 travel. I was supposed to demo the Ibis OSO but the shop sold the rental so I went out on the 2025 Pivot Shuttle LT with the CX Race motor and 170/160 travel. My only other ebike experience was in 2023 on a lower end Trek rental in Puerto Vallarta. That was a long fire road climb and then low intermediate downhill single track.

My apologies to @plummet because I was wrong and could feel the difference in weight between my buddies top specced AM vs the lower end specced LT which supposedly had a 4 lb weight difference. Something else I was wrong about was calling BS on everyone that always says "I never left ECO mode". We rode Gooseberry Mesa and while my friends all rode in TRAIL mode, I was in the lowest ECO mode the entire day and never needed to shift gears once.

On the flip side, I did conform and will still call BS on all the people that say you still get a workout similar to a regular mountain bike. The effort/work required on even the lowest setting was near non-existent. Another friend that was on an ebike demo for the first time was literally laughing at how easy the motor made the ride. That motor does 90% of the work and for better or worse (I used it to my advantage), I didn't even have to worry about taking the proper line of the features out there because the motor allowed me to go anywhere I wanted to go and ride sections I would never make on my regular bike. The ebike handled better than IO expected but by regular bikes are much more fun on the downs.

Admittedly, It made riding Gooseberry Mesa more enjoyable as I wasn't tired at all or "beaten up" at the end of the ride. My buddy said "I'm not sure I broke a sweat". While I can absolutely see having an ebike for certain type rides, the feel of riding with that motor is not what I think of when I think of mountain biking. It's much closer to riding a motorized dirt bike than a standard mountain bike and would be complete overkill for my daily trail riding in Prescott. I will probably get one when the 2025 models are 30% off and use it when we ride areas we might otherwise shuttle or run laps on like at Greer Ranch or Laguna in SoCal.

 

So I just returned from a trip to Caliente, NV and Hurricane, UT where I had the opportunity to ride my friends ebikes. One has a brand new YT Decoy with a Shimano 750W motor and 170/170 travel, the other guy has a new 2024 Pivot Shuttle AM with the Bosch CX 750W and 160/148 travel. I was supposed to demo the Ibis OSO but the shop sold the rental so I went out on the 2025 Pivot Shuttle LT with the CX Race motor and 170/160 travel. My only other ebike experience was in 2023 on a lower end Trek rental in Puerto Vallarta. That was a long fire road climb and then low intermediate downhill single track.

My apologies to @plummet because I was wrong and could feel the difference in weight between my buddies top specced AM vs the lower end specced LT which supposedly had a 4 lb weight difference. Something else I was wrong about was calling BS on everyone that always says "I never left ECO mode". We rode Gooseberry Mesa and while my friends all rode in TRAIL mode, I was in the lowest ECO mode the entire day and never needed to shift gears once.

On the flip side, I did conform and will still call BS on all the people that say you still get a workout similar to a regular mountain bike. The effort/work required on even the lowest setting was near non-existent. Another friend that was on an ebike demo for the first time was literally laughing at how easy the motor made the ride. That motor does 90% of the work and for better or worse (I used it to my advantage), I didn't even have to worry about taking the proper line of the features out there because the motor allowed me to go anywhere I wanted to go and ride sections I would never make on my regular bike. The ebike handled better than IO expected but by regular bikes are much more fun on the downs.

Admittedly, It made riding Gooseberry Mesa more enjoyable as I wasn't tired at all or "beaten up" at the end of the ride. My buddy said "I'm not sure I broke a sweat". While I can absolutely see having an ebike for certain type rides, the feel of riding with that motor is not what I think of when I think of mountain biking. It's much closer to riding a motorized dirt bike than a standard mountain bike and would be complete overkill for my daily trail riding in Prescott. I will probably get one when the 2025 models are 30% off and use it when we ride areas we might otherwise shuttle or run laps on like at Greer Ranch or Laguna in SoCal.

There is no requirement to appologize!

Now my push back is that by your explanation it sounds like you are still riding an e-bike at mtb speeds like an mtb then saying the motor did most of the work. Was there there mtb guys in your group and you all were riding at mtb speeds going up? If this is the case then you will indeed use far less energy than if you just mtb'd. You can't add a motor, go the same speed and expect the same workout.

To get a workout on an emtb you need to smash faster up than what you do on the mtb. I challenge you to do a full speed session. It doesn't matter what setting you are in on the bike. Just keep pushing past the output of the motor for extra speed. Don't stop and rest at the tops of hills or the bottom. Just keep a constant burn as fast as you can practically ride for the entire ride and then report back your findings.

E mtb's can give you a sweet fark all workout if you let the motor do all the work, or you can use the motor to give you extra speed and still apply your max effort. In which case you will be smashing up at close to double the speed, your'l ride almost twice as far and do more ups and down. Do it right and you will burn yourself completely out. Will it be exactly the same as mtb? No it wont. You shift the effort window from more intense uphill and less intense downhill less uphill intensity but more dh intensity.

Lastly, If you prefer the mtb feel and dont want for or need more downs and enjoy the grind up the hill. An E might not be for you. Just like a gravel bike isn't for me. The E is just a tool to be enjoyed, if that's your type of joy.

 

Couple things, even in eco with the CX motor it has a lot of power, example compared to my Rise it has more power in eco probably than mine has in boost, which I rarely use as it's too much for ST riding IMO. If you tune the bike to your style riding and are conserving battery to get more range your gonna get a workout in. Not the same of course as regular MB and especially climbing, but still I usually feel like the E rides are 25% easier which allows me to do bigger longer rides so in the end the workout approaches the shorter less vert rides I do on my non E.

I don't believe anyone is saying apples to apples the workout is the same, just allows you to do bigger rides more miles/vert and if you tune it down so you get more range and more of a workout it can absolutely feel the same from an effort standpoint

 

All bosch modes can be tuned to the output ypu want. I've got my eco set at 60nm max.

 

Can confirm that the stock Bosch Race motor in the Shuttle LT is fast in all modes. I'm three rides in on mine and really digging it but there is nothing slow about any of the modes. On Saturday I did 5200' of climbing in 18 miles and had 22% of the battery left, so it's pretty efficient too for how much power it gives.

I'm going to detune green and see what kind of vert I can get then.

Lot's to say about eebs, but really they are just another tool in the shed that is sure to nice to have if one can afford it. Used well and they allow lot's of fun and are an excellent tool to increase fitness along with plenty of normal mountain bike rides and gym work.

 

Can confirm that the stock Bosch Race motor in the Shuttle LT is fast in all modes. I'm three rides in on mine and really digging it but there is nothing slow about any of the modes. On Saturday I did 5200' of climbing in 18 miles and had 22% of the battery left, so it's pretty efficient too for how much power it gives.

I'm going to detune green and see what kind of vert I can get then.

Lot's to say about eebs, but really they are just another tool in the shed that is sure to nice to have if one can afford it. Used well and they allow lot's of fun and are an excellent tool to increase fitness along with plenty of normal mountain bike rides and gym work.

Shuttle lt with bosch race motor would be a firecracker. My mate has the previous gen with shimano and it goes awesome. But i do have some extra jandle compared the shimano powered l with my bosch gen 5.

 

You can also changes assist modes. The Race motor doesn’t even have an Eco mode but you can exchange the green mode you have (probably Tour or Tour+) for Eco and get incredible range. But slow AF. 😂

 

Yeah, on gen 5 I can change modes in the app without taking it to the shop.
I pissbowled auto and replaced that with tour+ and upgraded eco to eco+....

When the gen 100nm update comes through i'll be changing up my settings again.... 100nm will only be in boost mode.

 

Hey Crit Rat what does eeb stand for?

Agree on the fitness, longer rides at lower heart rates help burn fat and lean out as well. I like to use my E more at the beginning of the season to get more saddle time

 

Hey Crit Rat what does eeb stand for?

Just a colloquialism used to stand in for an e-bike.

 

I've seen that term a few times figured it was an acronym, maybe full power ebikes should be eeb, mid power eb and full power at mid power weight yippeeb?

 

Feb and meb

 

So if you have to put your foot down on a climb while riding an ebike... did you deeb?

 

dweeb'd

 

I occasionally use my older Levo SL but am thinking of selling it for a new full-power bike. In the US, the offerings are different than in the US/Europe. I especially need dealer support since there is not way I'll be shipping it off if something happens to the motor. So I am looking at the new Levo, the ones from Santa Cruz, and maybe Cannonade and Trek even. A removable battery would be a huge plus (for winter storage + security) and if the battery is not at least 750WH, then extenders are necessary. Time to research all this. I do love the light weight of the Levo SL but things have changed and I need to speed up my mid week loops due to time. I also will ride 2-3 times each month with a small group that are all on full-power ebikes.