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My suggestions are to use it as a base line and then adjust. But reading my whole post actually discussing it isn't your thing is it.

When I look at the fork my two main performance measures are
1. Can I ride it quickly
2. How fatiguing is it to ride.

Pretty darn equal means that using those two simple measures the forks are coming out just about even.
That's rubbish and you know it. The forks on offer today ride and handle completely differently unless you're just cruising around the carpark.

Different spring and damper curves make for a completely different riding experience.
 
That's rubbish and you know it. The forks on offer today ride and handle completely differently unless you're just cruising around the carpark.

Different spring and damper curves make for a completely different riding experience.
I am not saying they feel the same but under the simple criteria of speed and rate of fatigue they are all very similar.

I know you are really struggling with this concept and that is ok. New ideas are hard for some people.
 
I am not saying they feel the same but under the simple criteria of speed and rate of fatigue they are all very similar.

I know you are really struggling with this concept and that is ok. New ideas are hard for some people.
Hell no. They're not even remotely similar.

Go ride them again.


I will disagree with you.
I'm very happy about that.
 
You figure as someone who specializes in tuning he would being trying to help people out. And any decent tuner knows that if you are struggling with your fork the issues are likely related to spring rate or rebound. Compression is litterly the last dial you turn.
Dougal's first message here is asking OP if what the issue OP has feels like one issue he is aware of, concerning OP's fork's model. I call that "being trying to help people out". He may deviate from topic and post weird messages but You can't deny he is trying to be helpful.

Any decent tuner will first check user's suspension model to see if there is any obvious known issue with it. As Dougal dynoed the same damper and found issues, one of which corresponding to OP's symptoms, there is nothing wrong pointing to that particular issue.
If someone tell me their moco sucks or that their deluxe select lacks sensitivity and support, I won't tell them to try other settings. I'd tell them to get rid of that POS moco and get some french tech in there, or I'd probably fiddle with those several thick plates hiding the deluxe's piston for some reason. I won't try to turn any dial on that marzo DJ I just bought before going to the lathe first for the same reason.

Compression is the first dial you need to turn if it act as a lockout... that is obvious I hope... But if the compression setting suck as much as a lockout, you need to take care of it first.

And last thing,if you think modern suspensions are all equally good, you probably never try a good suspension. When I had a Crconception damper, It was fast, I was never tired, never had painful fingers, and I could use any spring rate from RS except the hardest one, and turn the knobs in any position. It just worked. It just made the bike from "good" to "awesome". That is what I expect from a suspension before thinking it's good.
 
Dougal's first message here is asking OP if what the issue OP has feels like one issue he is aware of, concerning OP's fork's model. I call that "being trying to help people out". He may deviate from topic and post weird messages but You can't deny he is trying to be helpful.

Any decent tuner will first check user's suspension model to see if there is any obvious known issue with it. As Dougal dynoed the same damper and found issues, one of which corresponding to OP's symptoms, there is nothing wrong pointing to that particular issue.
If someone tell me their moco sucks or that their deluxe select lacks sensitivity and support, I won't tell them to try other settings. I'd tell them to get rid of that POS moco and get some french tech in there, or I'd probably fiddle with those several thick plates hiding the deluxe's piston for some reason. I won't try to turn any dial on that marzo DJ I just bought before going to the lathe first for the same reason.

Compression is the first dial you need to turn if it act as a lockout... that is obvious I hope... But if the compression setting suck as much as a lockout, you need to take care of it first.

And last thing,if you think modern suspensions are all equally good, you probably never try a good suspension. When I had a Crconception damper, It was fast, I was never tired, never had painful fingers, and I could use any spring rate from RS except the hardest one, and turn the knobs in any position. It just worked. It just made the bike from "good" to "awesome". That is what I expect from a suspension before thinking it's good.
100% agreed.

With every new shock or fork the first thing I try to do is find the limitations of the hardware. If the limitations will prevent it from doing what I want, I don't spend more time on it.

Most people have never tried a bespoke damper, and have no idea how good suspension can feel. People only know what they've ridden.
 
Most people have never tried a bespoke damper, and have no idea how good suspension can feel. People only know what they've ridden.
I have a Cane Creek shock with a climb switch on my bike, I often get questions about it from other riders and I've let quite a few people test ride my bike. But before I hand over my bike I make sure the climb switch is ON without them knowing, and most of the time the person riding it is totally happy and thinks it's one of the best shocks he's ever ridden. I've only had a couple people tell me that something felt wrong and it wasn't as good as they expected.

That experiment told me a lot about what people expect from their suspension.
 
Before getting a tuned damper from Dougal/ Shockcraft my settings on my factory 36 with me weighing 170lbs were.

87psi
0 volume spacers
LSR 5 (of 16)
HSR 4 (of 8)
LSC 12 (of 16)
HSC 7 (of 8)

Definitely remove the volume spacers to start.
Just got the two volume spacers out and the shock feels much better, but haven't ridden yet due to injury. Had to have LBS do this since I lack 32mm socket and big torque wrench. They told me that Fox pressure guidelines are too high for most riders and that many people run 10 to 20 psi lower.
 
Just got the two volume spacers out and the shock feels much better, but haven't ridden yet due to injury. Had to have LBS do this since I lack 32mm socket and big torque wrench. They told me that Fox pressure guidelines are too high for most riders and that many people run 10 to 20 psi lower.
IIRC the factory recommended pressure is 86 for my weight.
10-20 psi below that is going to be a mistake for most people. It will put the fork deep into the travel so you'll be running into the ramp of the air spring a lot which is harsh.
 
IIRC the factory recommended pressure is 86 for my weight.
10-20 psi below that is going to be a mistake for most people. It will put the fork deep into the travel so you'll be running into the ramp of the air spring a lot which is harsh.
What pressure are you running now?

Here are the graphs for a 2021+ F36 with 2 tokens. It was 150mm but longer travel only really changes end progression.

You're around a 40lb/in coil equivalent.
86psi will give a midstroke of ~43lb/in. Which sounds okay, but air-springs get a lot firmer on fast compressions so it's more like 50lb/in on every bump.

This is the trade-off with air springs. They give less spring compressed slow and more spring compressed fast. So set them to resist dive and they kick you on bumps. Set them to suck up bumps well and they dive more.
 

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What pressure are you running now?

Here are the graphs for a 2021+ F36 with 2 tokens. It was 150mm but longer travel only really changes end progression.

You're around a 40lb/in coil equivalent.
86psi will give a midstroke of ~43lb/in. Which sounds okay, but air-springs get a lot firmer on fast compressions so it's more like 50lb/in on every bump.

This is the trade-off with air springs. They give less spring compressed slow and more spring compressed fast. So set them to resist dive and they kick you on bumps. Set them to suck up bumps well and they dive more.
Since getting the damper you tuned I'm running

78 psi
HSC 8 (of 8) Full open
LSC 1 (of 16) Full closed
HSR 3 (of 8)
LSR 7 (of 16)

The only change I made from your recommendations was I closed LSR 1 click.

I also pulled out the Tru tune insert, which felt like 1/2 token. With the damper being more supportive I didn't need it.
 
Since getting the damper you tuned I'm running

78 psi
HSC 8 (of 8) Full open
LSC 1 (of 16) Full closed
HSR 3 (of 8)
LSR 7 (of 16)

The only change I made from your recommendations was I closed LSR 1 click.

I also pulled out the Tru tune insert, which felt like 1/2 token. With the damper being more supportive I didn't need it.
Are you having to run 8psi less than Fox suggests because you have LSC fully closed?
 
Are you having to run 8psi less than Fox suggests because you have LSC fully closed?
One of the points of discussion is some say that Fox forks need to be over-sprung because they are under-damped or shall I say poorly damped. If you go with that idea then lower pressure with more LSC makes sense.

I know if I want to run my compression wide open I have to compensate with higher spring rate.
 
Are you having to run 8psi less than Fox suggests because you have LSC fully closed?
LMN pretty much got it.
I'm running a tuned damper now. There is now much more Low speed compression so lower air pressure is possible. The damping is providing support rather than only the spring.

If I had closed the LSC on the stock damper it got harsh on bumps quickly.

Overall the fork is much more stable when shifting your weight around on the bike and dives less under braking. It's better controlled but also soaks up bumps better. The harshness and sharpness from impacts with the stock fork are just gone.

Also the fork is set up for my bike, weight, riding style, and preference for feel.

My only complaints about the fork now are
1. I should have done this sooner.
2. The fork is so nice, that now the limits of the rear shock are apparent. I'm emailing with Dougal about tuning the shock on the bike or buying a new Mara Pro and having it tuned right from the get go.

I'm absolutely a happy Shockcraft customer.
 
One of the points of discussion is some say that Fox forks need to be over-sprung because they are under-damped or shall I say poorly damped. If you go with that idea then lower pressure with more LSC makes sense.

I know if I want to run my compression wide open I have to compensate with higher spring rate.
Its not the opposite? Many complain Fox damper is too stiff (overdamped) and thats why they need higher pressure to get some support back because they keep it mostly open?
 
Its not the opposite? Many complain Fox damper is too stiff (overdamped) and thats why they need higher pressure to get some support back because they keep it mostly open?
Kind of. Even though the damping levels are low they have harsh feedback on sharp edges and this requires people to run the compression open.
So everyone running stock is over-springing to compensate.
 
They are not overdamped, they are harsh. And that's not the same thing. Harshness in this case comes mostly from the poor midvalve design. Users are trying to mitigate this harshness by opening the damping (which works only to some extent) but that creates other problems, e.g fork is not very supportive, so rider needs to compensate with higher pressure. Pretty much the same with Charger 2.1, but even worse.
 
Before getting a tuned damper from Dougal/ Shockcraft my settings on my factory 36 with me weighing 170lbs were.

87psi
0 volume spacers
LSR 5 (of 16)
HSR 4 (of 8)
LSC 12 (of 16)
HSC 7 (of 8)

Definitely remove the volume spacers to start.
Yep. This was helpful, thanks. I'm slightly heavier than you but did these exact settings and it's the best the fork has felt so far.
Still feels like absolute garbage when braking through anything choppy, but it's a start.
 
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