I’m 220lb and have 110psi but still get too much sag and a harsh mid travel. Step-downs, drops and big hits feel terrific but medium speed chunk and high speed small bump performance is terrible. I bottom out on appropriate hits.

Tried multiple changes to HSC/LSC and rebound. I’m about to pull the spacer out of my fork and bump the pressure.

 

I’m 220lb and have 110psi but still get too much sag and a harsh mid travel. Step-downs, drops and big hits feel terrific but medium speed chunk and high speed small bump performance is terrible. I bottom out on appropriate hits.

Tried multiple changes to HSC/LSC and rebound. I’m about to pull the spacer out of my fork and bump the pressure.

My first suggestion is to try adding 1-click of slow speed rebound and see if that makes any improvement, if that makes it worse remove 1-click from your original setting.

Second suggestion is a bit more LSC. When your fork isn't performing in those situations often it is because it blows through the first bit of travel on the first hit is never able to reset. Adding some LSC will keep it higher in its travel and better able to absorb consecutive hits. It will however make the fork harsher for a single hit.

 

Personally I haven't owned an air fork that didn't require an additional investment to improve the air spring to my liking. I buy an air fork and inflate to manufacture spec. I jounce, I curb hop, I do all sorts of parking lot tuning before I hit the trails. Hit the trails - I end up having to run my fork quite firm to add additional support for my 215lb frame. Fork usually has little small bump compliance w/ a weak mid stroke and hard to achieve full travel. So what to do? I install a DSD Runt or Secus & lighten my wallet in the process.

 

I went the cheaper route with a Luftkappe.

 

Is this test still valid?

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-vorsprung-secus-air-spring-upgrade.html

 

I don't understand the heuristic methods being used for anything other than a starting point. I'm not going to reduce my pressure or volume spacers to be able to hit 90% travel in the driveway when I'm already bottoming out on the trail. Use whatever you want for a starting point, just don't get hung up on it when the trail necessitates something else.

 

I just installed my Avalanche damper into my 38. My harshness problem seems to be solved and my 38 is running great.

Prior to my Avalanche damper, the fork ran perfectly for a long time with GRIP 2. Then out of nowhere, it started to run harsh. It didn't matter what position my knobs were in; the fork caused really bad shoulder and major back problems. I conducted a service on my fork and the harshness didn't clear up. With the knobs fully open or closed, it felt like I was riding with a rigid fork. I also removed all the tokens just to see what happens. Still the same.

I'm just glad the Avalanche damper helped me out! I'm interested in trying a Dougal tune on another one of my bikes though! I love variety 😀

 

NM

 

Soft fork make arms seem swole, hard tires because lack grip strength to change. It all makes so much sense now!

 

Serious advice, your lack of arm strength is holding you back. Not being able to get more than 60% from your fork in a carpark test is a real problem.

Dude you crack’n me up. 😂
If you using the carpark test as part of your fork setting procedure, its explain everything…

Now seriously, when are you uploading your next gravel road riding episode? coz its the best mtb comedy series.

 

This really took a left turn. Didn’t know everyone was so sensitive about suspension.

 

I know ha ha. It's really not a good look for most in this thread lol

 

Every Fox thread gets Dougaled eventually. I'm surprised it lasted this long.

 

You figure as someone who specializes in tuning he would being trying to help people out. And any decent tuner knows that if you are struggling with your fork the issues are likely related to spring rate or rebound. Compression is litterly the last dial you turn.

I have ridden just about every fork out there and most of them are pretty darn equal. The only one that I think has advantage is Ohlins, they are really good and are the gold standard in my opinion. The only issue is they are rare, expensive, and unknown long term durability.

 

Every Fox thread gets Dougaled eventually. I'm surprised it lasted this long.

More like every suspension thread… unless it’s Manitou related.

 

I am always wary of those who are selling something.

 

Dude you crack’n me up. 😂
If you using the carpark test as part of your fork setting procedure, its explain everything…

Now seriously, when are you uploading your next gravel road riding episode? coz its the best mtb comedy series.

Carpark test is just an indicator. When you can't get more than 60% travel there's a huge mismatch between the strength of your springs and your arms.

How about this. I will continue to do my best to provide helpful suggestion to people who are struggling to find a set-up that works. You can continue to tell that that wasted a ton of money and that they should sell their fork and buy one from you, and then spend some more money to get tuned, so it blows rapidly through its travel on easy trails ridden at moderate speeds.

Your "helpful suggestions" are to use Fox's printed settings. Which makes your role here redundant.

You're also here fabricating quotes like the ones above.

You figure as someone who specializes in tuning he would being trying to help people out. And any decent tuner knows that if you are struggling with your fork the issues are likely related to spring rate or rebound. Compression is litterly the last dial you turn.

I have ridden just about every fork out there and most of them are pretty darn equal. The only one that I think has advantage is Ohlins, they are really good and are the gold standard in my opinion. The only issue is they are rare, expensive, and unknown long term durability.

You've ridden forks with stock internal tunes differing by over a factor of 2 and you think they're all "pretty darn equal"?

 

Your "helpful suggestions" are to use Fox's printed settings. Which makes your role here redundant.

You're also here fabricating quotes like the ones above.

You've ridden forks with stock internal tunes differing by over a factor of 2 and you think they're all "pretty darn equal"?

My suggestions are to use it as a base line and then adjust. But reading my whole post actually discussing it isn't your thing is it.

When I look at the fork my two main performance measures are
1. Can I ride it quickly
2. How fatiguing is it to ride.

Pretty darn equal means that using those two simple measures the forks are coming out just about even.

 

Carpark test is just an indicator. When you can't get more than 60% travel there's a huge mismatch between the strength of your springs and your arms.

I will disagree with you.

 

You figure as someone who specializes in tuning he would being trying to help people out. And any decent tuner knows that if you are struggling with your fork the issues are likely related to spring rate or rebound. Compression is litterly the last dial you turn.

Dougal's first message here is asking OP if what the issue OP has feels like one issue he is aware of, concerning OP's fork's model. I call that "being trying to help people out". He may deviate from topic and post weird messages but You can't deny he is trying to be helpful.

Any decent tuner will first check user's suspension model to see if there is any obvious known issue with it. As Dougal dynoed the same damper and found issues, one of which corresponding to OP's symptoms, there is nothing wrong pointing to that particular issue.
If someone tell me their moco sucks or that their deluxe select lacks sensitivity and support, I won't tell them to try other settings. I'd tell them to get rid of that POS moco and get some french tech in there, or I'd probably fiddle with those several thick plates hiding the deluxe's piston for some reason. I won't try to turn any dial on that marzo DJ I just bought before going to the lathe first for the same reason.

Compression is the first dial you need to turn if it act as a lockout... that is obvious I hope... But if the compression setting suck as much as a lockout, you need to take care of it first.

And last thing,if you think modern suspensions are all equally good, you probably never try a good suspension. When I had a Crconception damper, It was fast, I was never tired, never had painful fingers, and I could use any spring rate from RS except the hardest one, and turn the knobs in any position. It just worked. It just made the bike from "good" to "awesome". That is what I expect from a suspension before thinking it's good.

 

100% agreed.

With every new shock or fork the first thing I try to do is find the limitations of the hardware. If the limitations will prevent it from doing what I want, I don't spend more time on it.

Most people have never tried a bespoke damper, and have no idea how good suspension can feel. People only know what they've ridden.

 

Hmm, maybe the answer to all these woes is to go coil. My old pike coil and Lyrik coil were nice. That Lyrik, while heavy, was the bomb for taming chatter.

 

One of the points of discussion is some say that Fox forks need to be over-sprung because they are under-damped or shall I say poorly damped. If you go with that idea then lower pressure with more LSC makes sense.

I know if I want to run my compression wide open I have to compensate with higher spring rate.

Its not the opposite? Many complain Fox damper is too stiff (overdamped) and thats why they need higher pressure to get some support back because they keep it mostly open?

 

Kind of. Even though the damping levels are low they have harsh feedback on sharp edges and this requires people to run the compression open.
So everyone running stock is over-springing to compensate.

 

They are not overdamped, they are harsh. And that's not the same thing. Harshness in this case comes mostly from the poor midvalve design. Users are trying to mitigate this harshness by opening the damping (which works only to some extent) but that creates other problems, e.g fork is not very supportive, so rider needs to compensate with higher pressure. Pretty much the same with Charger 2.1, but even worse.

 

Well... Oddly enough, I just saw that Universal cycles has some '22 lyriks on sale for 50% off. So, my first foray into fox forks since 2008 is coming to an end after only a month.
Anybody looking for a barely used '22 factory 36 with a healthy 8" steerer? 😂

 

The Lyrik will be harsh as well.

If you want to fix it either need to send the damper to Dougal or replace it with an Avalanche damper.

 

Thank you counsel. Witness, you may step down.

 

Reading through this thread I noticed Muddy-Runs banned? Why&When did that happened?

 

Dude had a huge chip on his shoulder and would jump straight into a thread with attacks on people he didn't like. He was given ample opportunity to chill, but proved incapable.

 

Reading through this thread I noticed Muddy-Runs banned? Why&When did that happened?

Guess who’s back…

 

Dude had a huge chip on his shoulder and would jump straight into a thread with attacks on people he didn't like. He was given ample opportunity to chill, but proved incapable.

 

It's been a while, and I've done some things, but first things first:

I kept riding these forks, tried to re-set the axle in different ways and to fill the forks in different ways. No avail. I then used some nifty tactics and invited some people to that very part of my regular trail that gave me the worst armpump. Some same model Fox forks, some "easier" Marzocchi forks, older stuff... and out of the modern forks, they all had arm pump.
I then took the fork off my bike and sent it out to have it tuned. The damper got some work done, bushings burnished, and I hit the trail once again. The results were better, but the issue was still there. And after asking this specific question, I was being told that my lower legs would cause the CSU to bind once the axle was locked into place. Only the last inch of travel, but it can't move freely.
So now I'm sitting here with another Fox, 38 Factory, to see how it does. I feel quite bummed that neither one of these forks does any better in that specific area so far and, especially, how bad the craftsmanship is. Like, all series have the same tolerances and QS? The shocks are fine, I really love those, but the forks... not so much.

So, just in case someone's still reading this: Let someone check your bushings and then check them again after the front axle is in place, tight, and make sure everything moves nicely "ready to ride".

 

Who did the damper tuning?

 

I ride 105psi also, but am about 90kgs geared up. Did you try more pressure and less tokens?

I still have to find a trail where I find the 34 Grip2 or 38 Grip2 too harsh - maybe I ain't hitting hard enough?
I had a Grip damper on the 34 before, unrideable soft damping or completely harsh, got a bit better with the newer shimstack, but still way worse than the Grip2 I have now.

Those clamping issues - I dont have that.