[hrdude]

Has anyone tried putting a 9spd 22t granny on a Dyna-sys 10spd crankset? Will this work?

 

[Bikebr]

DynaSys x SRAM 9 speed

"2. Nine speed rear derailleurs will not work with 10 speed mountain rear shifters. They will however work with road "flat bar" 10 speed rear shifters. Dyna speed shifters pull twice as much cable per shift as 9 speed shifters, so if you use a 9 speed derailleur it shifts two gears for every one push."

"This confirms what I read only once before. The Dyna-sys cable pull to rear derailleur rate is 1:1, like SRAM (9 Speed) now. I haven't heard if SRAM changed from 1:1 to something else for XX."

"I believe the SRAM 10 speed works out as a 0.8:1 ratio now, their 8/9 speed stuff is 1:1, all shimano derailleurs except the new 10speed mtb (and the 7/8 speed DuraAce) are 2:1 and the shimano 10s MTB is I believe its been measured out as something like 1.25:1."

Folks, sorry if i lost something in translation (english is not my native language).. Is it possible to use a 9 sp SRAM rear der in a full 10 sp DynaSys system(i.e. changing a XT RD-M773 for a X9)?
Thanks.

 

[knottshore]

"2. Nine speed rear derailleurs will not work with 10 speed mountain rear shifters. They will however work with road "flat bar" 10 speed rear shifters. Dyna speed shifters pull twice as much cable per shift as 9 speed shifters, so if you use a 9 speed derailleur it shifts two gears for every one push."

"This confirms what I read only once before. The Dyna-sys cable pull to rear derailleur rate is 1:1, like SRAM (9 Speed) now. I haven't heard if SRAM changed from 1:1 to something else for XX."

"I believe the SRAM 10 speed works out as a 0.8:1 ratio now, their 8/9 speed stuff is 1:1, all shimano derailleurs except the new 10speed mtb (and the 7/8 speed DuraAce) are 2:1 and the shimano 10s MTB is I believe its been measured out as something like 1.25:1."

Folks, sorry if i lost something in translation (english is not my native language).. Is it possible to use a 9 sp SRAM rear der in a full 10 sp DynaSys system(i.e. changing a XT RD-M773 for a X9)?
Thanks.

In short, NO. It is not possible even though Shimano shifters have changed from the previous 2:1 ratio to a ~ 1.25:1 ratio (or whatever it works out to be?) it is still not the same as 8/9 speed or 10 speed Sram cable pull. Front Derailleur wise you would be ok with either, 8, 9 or 10 speed 3X shifters (2X add different issues) cable pull wise from either Shimano or Sram...

 

[Hedge72]

Does anyone know the q factor on the new XTR 2x10 cranks? I know that the M985 (race) has a q factor which is 6mm lower than the M980 (trail). Assuming that the trail retains the same q factor of the last gen M970 (even here I am unsure, having read a q factor of either 169mm or 166mm), that would put the M985s at 160mm - 162mm...though I have also read that they are 2mm wider than the lowest available q factor on the xx (156m), which is then 158mm.

I'm looking to take my Giant Anthem to a double front with XTR cranks and finding that there is not only little, but conflicting information out there.

Hedge

 

[polymathic]

I read this interesting thread very carefully, and I have a compatibility question that has not been covered yet. (Unless I missed it.)

Currently, I'm running a 2x9: X9 short cage rear derailleur, SRAM pg 990 cassette, X9 shifters, XT crank, XT front derailleur.

Unfortunately, my riding and the X9 RD don't work well together, and I seem to bend my derailleur hanger every couple of weeks. So I want to switch to a Shimano Shadow RD, which would require me to change the shifters as well. But I was wondering....

Could I change my X9 RD for a XT 10s RD, but keep everything else as is? (I guess I would also need to get a 10s chain?) Since the ratio of the XT 10s system is now 1:1, my x9 shifters should work. When my cassette wears out, I could get a 10s replacement and then upgrade my shifters so I can use the full 10s range. Would this work? Seems like the cheapest step for me, while working my way up to a 10s system down the road.

Thanks in advance, and thank you all for this incredibly informative thread.

 

[polymathic]

I don't want to sound impatient, but... really no one knows the answer to this? TIA.

 

[kuolas]

Because in order to improve the reliability of the mtb 10 speed shifting, shimano has finally admitted to themselves that SRAM had the right idea lowering the leverage ratio of the rear derailleur cable pull geometry (which makes the derailleur less sensitive to cable stretch and tension changes from shifter housing movement on a rear suspension bike). So the shifters now pull more cable than before for each shift. SRAM's 10 speed shifters and derailleurs also pull more cable than their 9 speed units. I believe the SRAM 10 speed works out as a 0.8:1 ratio now, their 8/9 speed stuff is 1:1, all shimano derailleurs except the new 10speed mtb (and the 7/8 speed DuraAce) are 2:1 and the shimano 10s MTB is I believe its been measured out as something like 1.25:1.

Maybe I'm incorrect... but... If you use a DynaSys Shifter with a normal 9s Shimano Shadows, the dérailleur will move two cogs per shift. And that if you use a 9s shifter wit a DynaSys dérailleur it will need two shifts per derailleur move... so Shimano changed the ratio from 2:1 to 4:1.

SRAM says that 1:1 is better with mud and dirt... but in reality more cable pull (like Shimano 2:1) make the system more reliable.

 

[boomn]

Maybe I'm incorrect... but... If you use a DynaSys Shifter with a normal 9s Shimano Shadows, the dérailleur will move two cogs per shift. And that if you use a 9s shifter wit a DynaSys dérailleur it will need two shifts per derailleur move... so Shimano changed the ratio from 2:1 to 4:1.

SRAM says that 1:1 is better with mud and dirt... but in reality more cable pull (like Shimano 2:1) make the system more reliable.

You have it backwards. The "2:1" ratio is 2 units of derailleur movement to 1 unit of shifter movement, meaning small difference in cable tension make a bigger difference in shift indexing and it is therefore less reliable in real use.

Shimano did about double the cable pull needed with Dynasys, but this basically changed it from 2:1 to 2:2, which is the same as 1:1 of course.

 

[gmats]

You have it backwards. The "2:1" ratio is 2 units of derailleur movement to 1 unit of shifter movement, meaning small difference in cable tension make a bigger difference in shift indexing and it is therefore less reliable in real use.

Shimano did about double the cable pull needed with Dynasys, but this basically changed it from 2:1 to 2:2, which is the same as 1:1 of course.

This is quite fun. I was confused before about the 2:1 etc. because I wasn't sure what point of reference this was from. I would have said 2 units of cable for 1 gear unit movement.

In automotive (or other things) terms, the discussion of gear-ratio is in reference of how many times the "driving" thing has to move for 1 movement of the driven device. 4.10 means the drive shaft turns 4.1 times for 1 turn of the tire. Transmission is done in terms of how many turns the engine makes (input shaft to transmission) with reference to the output shaft.

Back-asswards....................

 

[boomn]

This is quite fun. I was confused before about the 2:1 etc. because I wasn't sure what point of reference this was from. I would have said 2 units of cable for 1 gear unit movement.

In automotive (or other things) terms, the discussion of gear-ratio is in reference of how many times the "driving" thing has to move for 1 movement of the driven device. 4.10 means the drive shaft turns 4.1 times for 1 turn of the tire. Transmission is done in terms of how many turns the engine makes (input shaft to transmission) with reference to the output shaft.

Back-asswards....................

"shifter movement" the way I meant it is analogous to "units of cable". I guess that wasn't the clearest way for me to write it.

Other sources I've read do switch the order of Shimano's ratio in order to explain it more like a gear ratio. Maybe it was just Shimano's marketing team trying to make the term sound better or something

 

[kuolas]

Yeap... I was wrong. So, we can put SRAM Triggers with a Shimano DynaSys Shadow combo?

I never heard of Shimano publicly show their ratio... I though it's SRAM how says "2:1" to contrast it to the "1:1".

 

[hrdude]

Ok, anyone know if SRAM's 10spd chainrings fit on a Dyna-sys XT crankset?

 

[boomn]

Ok, anyone know if SRAM's 10spd chainrings fit on a Dyna-sys XT crankset?

SRAM's double cranksets use a different bolt circle diameter than normal 104BCD cranks like the XT so they aren't compatible

 

[polymathic]

Yeap... I was wrong. So, we can put SRAM Triggers with a Shimano DynaSys Shadow combo?

I never heard of Shimano publicly show their ratio... I though it's SRAM how says "2:1" to contrast it to the "1:1".

That's what I'm trying to figure out for sure--has anyone tried? But only SRAM 9 speed triggers might work, as the 10 speed SRAM stuff is no longer 1:1 ratio.

I also wonder if a 9 speed chain would work in a 10 speed rear derailleur with a 9 speed cassette.

Thank you all for the input.

 

[bikeNY22]

SLX Dyna sys everything with exception of SRAM X9 10 speed rear derailleur/shifter

Hello All,

I think this is a question that hasn't been addressed yet, but I may be wrong:

I am about to pull the trigger on a bike that comes with a full Shimano Dyna Sys SLX 3X10 drivetrain (cranks with 24t/32t/42t chainrings, chain, shifters, front & rear derailleur, cassette, etc). It's a 2011 Giant Reign 1. However, I like the feel of SRAM's 10 speed X9 shifter/rear derailleur combo and would like to incorporate this into my bike in the near future for as little cost as possible.

Q: Can I keep all of my shimano SLX dyna sys components (FD, chain, cassette, cranks, chainrings) and only replace the rear derailleur and rear shifter with SRAM X9 10 speed components? So everything would be dyna sys with the exception of the rear derailleur and rear shifter pod.

I am unsure of how the dyna sys SLX cranks/front derailleur combo will affect the SRAM 10 speed shifting in the rear. Any input or concerns would be greatly appreciated.

It has already been stated that the dyna sys cassette is interchangeable with 10 speed SRAM rear derailleurs (I know I will need to keep the dyna sys chain), but will a SRAM 10 speed rear derailleur be compatible and function properly with dyna sys SLX up front ???

Thanks in advance

 

[kuolas]

I believe the SRAM 10 speed works out as a 0.8:1 ratio now, their 8/9 speed stuff is 1:1

Currently I'm using X5 Triggers (SRAM 9s) with an X7 rear dérailleur (SRAM 10s)... so... It's still the same 1:1 ratio?

 

[Teigansdad]

Finally finished my set up...works Great!
shimano SLX 9 speed cranks: double ring set up with Blackspire super pro 38T and 26T
dynasys XT shifters F and R
XT 9 sp FD
XT 10 sp RD
XTR 10 sp dynasys chain with wipperman connect link
XT 11 - 36 T 10 sp rear cassette
Ridden twice...shifts flawlessly. More to come after a race this weekend!

 

[puckhead]

Yes, your can use SRAM RD and rear shifter with Shimano cranks, chainrings FD etc. Your front gear does not care what your rear gear is doing. I'm using SRAM RD and rear 10 speed shifter, Shimano 10 speed cassette, Shimano 10 speed chain and Blackspire 9 speed rings. Works fine.

Hello All,

I think this is a question that hasn't been addressed yet, but I may be wrong:

I am about to pull the trigger on a bike that comes with a full Shimano Dyna Sys SLX 3X10 drivetrain (cranks with 24t/32t/42t chainrings, chain, shifters, front & rear derailleur, cassette, etc). It's a 2011 Giant Reign 1. However, I like the feel of SRAM's 10 speed X9 shifter/rear derailleur combo and would like to incorporate this into my bike in the near future for as little cost as possible.

Q: Can I keep all of my shimano SLX dyna sys components (FD, chain, cassette, cranks, chainrings) and only replace the rear derailleur and rear shifter with SRAM X9 10 speed components? So everything would be dyna sys with the exception of the rear derailleur and rear shifter pod.

I am unsure of how the dyna sys SLX cranks/front derailleur combo will affect the SRAM 10 speed shifting in the rear. Any input or concerns would be greatly appreciated.

It has already been stated that the dyna sys cassette is interchangeable with 10 speed SRAM rear derailleurs (I know I will need to keep the dyna sys chain), but will a SRAM 10 speed rear derailleur be compatible and function properly with dyna sys SLX up front ???

Thanks in advance

 

[Teigansdad]

back from the lab

Finally finished my set up...works Great!
shimano SLX 9 speed cranks: double ring set up with Blackspire super pro 38T and 26T
dynasys XT shifters F and R
XT 9 sp FD
XT 10 sp RD
XTR 10 sp dynasys chain with wipperman connect link
XT 11 - 36 T 10 sp rear cassette
Ridden twice...shifts flawlessly. More to come after a race this weekend!

So I rode the above set up twice last week then took it out for it's intended purpose...raced on it yesterday. LOVED IT. No miss shifts,no skips, no hesitations on front shifts. Even cross chained more than I had intended in 38X36 combo and it just asked for more! So if any of you are hesitating on making a change hope the above helps.

 

[Ecogeek]

From what I understand the front 10 speed shifter is identical to the 9 speed shifter. The difference is in the geometry of the front derailleur. The 10 speed front derailleur moves slightly less per shift due to the 10 speed crankset using thinner rings with closer spacing. You can interchange the front derailleurs, but they will be very difficult to adjust. A 9 speed front derailleur on a 10 speed crankset will slightly overshift .....

The solution to this is to run a double crank. Use the stops to cheat things.
As long as it is set up to shift to the right point for the bigger ring, then setting the inner stop to stop the thing correctly for the other ring means no prob at all. Both positions the DL will be in 'exactly' the right place.

And 10sp is all about double cranks anyway for MTB. Double + bash is the way to go for real trail riding.
Riding MTB on the road. Sure, you want triple. But then you don't need 10sp anyway. + 9sp with thicker rings wears slower by definition. So save cash twice with no downside. And if you're wondering about intercompatibility of 9 and 10sp, then cash and durability/longevity are both relevant. So there is the solution. Double + bash. Or stay 9sp.
Even 9sp double + bash loses v little to 10sp. If you are racing, sure.
But this thread is not for racers. Its for those of us who care about bang for our buck. And IMO that is even more dominated than ever by 9sp now the prices are down.

Maybe I could shave 1min of my favourite loop with 10sp. And be back in the car moments sooner. YAY, traffic!
I can definitely save some cash and plenty of minutes at home (which can be invested in going out and riding) by sticking w 9sp.

Personal opinion of course. I'll go 10 at some point. But what's the rush. Getting paid in time and cash to stay w 9 is just fine for a season or so. 9sp double+bash is great. 24-36 11-32 can handle almost anything rideable with moderately strong legs and reasonable lungs and has almost the same ratios.
Use Sheldon Brown's (sheldonbrown.com) ratio calculator to check it out. Great tool for planning your drive.
Arguably, 10sp gives you one more 'useful' gear in the middle of the range.
But in reality, how often are you in the middle of the range? Going up you are in the low end. The rest in the high end. Middle is just for people who don't climb steep stuff and make a point of wearing all cogs evenly! Now that's REAL thrift!
Give me 1000more gears in the middle and I'll still use the highest 3 and lowest 3 more than the rest combined as the actual ratios for these 6 don't change much. You pick parts that make these important ratios as high as you can handle on what you ride - however many other gears there are.

So your '27sp' bike is really about a 6-8sp.
And your '30sp' is ALSO about a 6-8sp!!!
So is an '18sp'.
Or an 'XX'.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/

Here is a challenge. Go and ride a 7 or 8 speed bike. You might be upset at the old suspension or worn out tires, maybe the weight. But (assuming it's adjusted ok) the gearing will not bother you one bit. Because the *useful* ratios are all there, and the same as your 9. And will be the same as your 10.
10sp shaves weight and can reduce front shifting. Competitive advantage. If you're racing.
If you're not racing, one could argue that it is a competitive disadvantage in the game of life. Takes time and cash for little meaningful change in performance. New drive is expensive. If you have a budget (as we all do here), one can put that towards better/lighter tires/wheels/suspension that all affect your ride - and also affect times.

Don't get me wrong, 10sp is a welcome evo. But dropping anything/everything to pander to the 'must have' instinct is IMO getting carried away.
Go SRAM for 10sp IMO.