[FastBanana]

I just want to know if I can use my xt rd with a shimano 10 speed rear shifter

No.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

 

[zacster]

First post here on MTBR, but a long time BF'er.

I've made the mistake of buying 10sp parts (Shifter, Cassette, chain) as a quick and cheap upgrade to my commuter bike. Now, after reading about Dyna Sys and all the incompatibility with everything else ever made, I regret this decision.

My bike is an old Trek 7000, with 7sp LX on it, and the drivetrain is pretty worn out. I really started by putting a dynamo wheel in the front, and then also rebuilding my rear to match, so this looks and rides good. I wanted to upgrade the brakes, the old cantis needed pads and cables, never worked well. The thought was v-brakes as I've always liked the way they stop. Discs were out of the question. One change leads to another and that's where I ended up with 10 speed. I didn't realize how different it was.

Before I just decide to scrap the 10sp parts by putting them up on eBay, would I be able to use just the 10sp shifter, cassette, derailleur, KMC 10sp chain, and still have it work with the old 7sp crank and front der? Or is this just too much of a kluge? It doesn't have to be perfect. And is 10sp just overkill anyway? This stuff looks like it was made for the trails and is totally unnecessary for the streets.

 

[Valtra]

I have read the vast majority of this thread and either haven't found a set up the same as mine, or anyone who does never followed up with results. I want to use 2x10 cranks as a 2x9.

I just bought a new 2x10 Shimano XT crank with 26-38t chainrings. Will I run into problems with my entirely 9 speed drive train? Here's the set up:

-2x10 XT crank with DynaSys rings
-x.9 shifters
-Shimano Alivio front mech.
-x.7 rear mech
-SRAM P971 chain with Powelink <-----needs replacing anyway (too short)!
-SRAM 11-32t cassette

Appreciate any assistance!

 

[plstrns]

Maybe.

If you have 3x9 shifters, your FD may work with the crank but you'll use 2nd and 3rd shifter positions. I have my doubts about this setup, you'll be far better off with a 2X FD and shifter.
You'll need a ten speed chain. The rear shifter, der, and cassette will be fine.

 

[Valtra]

Thanks for the reply. I am using 2x9 shifters. So my options are:

Cheap: buy a 3x9 X.9 shifter and 10sp. chain
Expensive: buy a 2x10 shifter, 10 sp. FD, and 10sp. chain

If I go the expensive route, does it matter if I go with SRAM or Shimano for the derailleur? I prefer the lever layout of SRAM to the index finger trigger of Shimano

 

[plstrns]

Im not familiar with specific 2x9 shifters. To my knowledge all 2x9's are triples that use only the middle and granny rings. Front shifter, crank and front derailliur are still 3X.
There are some specific FD's like Shimano 665/667's made for 36/22 cranks, and some cranks that came with 2 rings, but they are 3X designs modified for 2 rings. These are Doubles, not 2X systems.

You have a 2X crank, and I'm pretty sure a 3X front der, and a 3X front shifter. As a general rule, keep double fronts with double shifter/ ders and 2X fronts with 2X shifters/ ders.

If I'm correct about your parts the cheap way out is sell the new XT crank and buy a 3X. If you think I'm mistaken about your shifter and FD, post some part #'s for me to check out.

FYI, Shimano has had thumb release for quite some time now.

 

[Huusoku]

Hello MTBR,

I wanted to share that I just setup a medium cage M785 with my 39-tooth 8-speed Action-Tec USA heat-treated titanium cassette and XT v-brake/rapid fire M739 combo shifter. I had found this thread before making the decision to replace my old XT M739 derailleur and knew I'd just need to shorten the swing arm to work with my setup.

All that was needed was to make a cable adapter that moves the cable's attachment point closer to the pivot of the derailleur's swing arm. The piece of aluminum I made this from measures about 12mm wide X about 28mm long and was cut from some scrap 1/8" thick piece I had laying around:

The bend matches the angle of the original swing arm and moves the cable attachment point approximately 7mm closer to the pivot. It is difficult to measure but I think the original swing arm length is 30mm and shortening it to about 23mm is the sweet spot for my old & trusty XT M739 shifter:

Here is a top view showing the bend of the piece I made. The chain is a SRAM PC991:

Making this piece was very easy, took less than 10 mins with a hacksaw, drill and hammer. I slotted it so I'd be able to fine tune it to work just right. I was so excited to test it out that I still haven't removed it to clean up and round it's sharp edges. Now that I know where the sweet spot is, whenever I do remove it to make it look better, I plan to slot a groove for the cable similar to the original Shimano design.

The new M785 is very nice. I really like the two-piece frame attachment design because the B-adjustment screw no longer wears into my precious USA hand-made frame and the massive increase in spring tension (even with the clutch switched off) means I can get rid of all my gimmicky chain guide crap. Hoping for no more dropped chains on my 1-by setup!

A few more things to note...
- When used as Shimano intended, it takes about 2 and 3/4 of clicks of my 8-speed shifter to change 1 gear.

- Yes with the shorter swing-arm there is more resistance at the shifter, but it's not as bad as I originally feared. Compared to before, it is a little bit harder to shift with the clutch switched off, and definitely shifts harder with the clutch on -- but even still it doesn't seem excessively hard to shift. I'm not worried about wearing out my right thumb or busting my shifter even with the clutch turned on. It's not that bad at all. For reference I am using an Aztec "Duracote" PTFE/Silicon coated cable.

- In case you are wondering, there is a pre-existing shoulder that the top leading edge of my adapter aligns to and prevents it from rotating about the original cable tie-down bolt. I just simply drilled the hole in my aluminum piece such that the edge would ride right-up against this shoulder and lock it in place. Once the factory cable bolt is tightened down, it is mounted entirely rigid/solid.

Here are some weight comparisons.

Old XT M739 with some super-old Bike Nashbar lower alloy gear:

New XT M785 minus my new cable adapter:

So it's a bit heavier, however, here is my old M739 combined with all the funky shift & chain tension "enhancing" parts:

I don't have the weight of the new derailleur with my cable adapter but it's possible I've saved a few grams in the end!

Heading out to the San Joaquin River Trail tomorrow morning for a shake-down ride! Can't wait!

Happy trails,
BigMike

 

[Huusoku]

First ride report!

Rode 15 miles and this derailleur is AWESOME. Here come some notes...

1. Shifting Speed and Tension at the Shifter. This thing is lightening fast at shifting, especially up-shifting. It is many times faster than my older XT unit. Downshifting is a bit more difficult because there is more tension due to the stronger springs and the clutch, but as I got more seat time in I was getting the hang of having to press my thumb a bit further to engage up a gear. Towards the end of the ride I nearly had gotten used to it. It shifts REALLY quick if you jam the shifter forward fast (lower thumb lever / downshifting). It hardly skips teeth as it engages the larger sprocket. Up-shifts (index finger), man oh man they are lightening fast. No hesitation at all. BAM next gear, BAM next gear, very nice.

2. Noise. With my old C.Guide my drivetain was already quiet but now without it + a stronger tensioned chain I get the same quiet operation but it's even quieter still because you don't have the sound of the chain dragging through the sleeve of the C.Guide.

3. Chain slap. I rode about half the trail with the clutch on and the other half off. To be honest I can't tell a difference in chain slap UNLESS you hit a really big bump. Even with the clutch off, I only heard the chain slap around once. It is miles better than my old XT.

4. Efficiency. This is biased because the bearings of my old derailleur gears were shot plus I had the drag from the C.Guide, but with the new setup I noticed straight away that there is less drag at higher cadences. It is much smoother. And when you back pedal the chain no longer "sticks" like before. It cycles through the drivetrain effortlessly.

If you've got an old derailleur, really there is no excuse not to spend the $70 to get this new XT unit. It is miles better than my old XT; I should have done this a few race seasons ago!!

Regards,
BigMike

 

[always_last]

I read through this entire thread and couldn't find anyone trying this setup:

I'm currently running a full SRAM X9 9-speed drivetrain with gripshifters. My long term plan is to switch to SLX 10-speed when my current stuff wears out. I am very curious to try trigger shifters now, though, since I've been running gripshift pretty much since they first came out but I don't want to invest in any more 9 speed equipment.

So...has anyone tried a Dynasys 10 speed shifter with a 9 speed SRAM cassette and derailleur with the last shift position inactive? I know the lots of people are having success with SRAM 9 speed shifters/Dynasys rear derailleurs with slight cable mods, does that mean it will work the other way around?

 

[pimpbot]

Zombie thread!!

So, I'm coming to the conclusion that I need to update my old XTR M952 cranks to modern cranks. I can either spend stupid amounts of money on the correct super rare spider to make it all work, or I can spend the same money on a set of 10 speed cranks.

This is going on a 29er, running 9 speed dual control shifters.

I heard, and correct me if I'm wrong, that there isn't much difference in the ring spacing from a 10 speed triple crank from a 9 speed triple crank... like fractions of a millimeter. Close enough to work with 9 speed drivetrain up front. Good. I don't want to give up my 9 speed only dual control levers quite yet.

One of my concerns was being able to keep my 30t middle ring, which is hard to do with 4 arm 104 BCD cranks. The newer 10 speed triple seems to come with 96/64mm bcd 4 arm, with 22/30/40t rings. Almost perfect. I have an Action Tech 20t ring that takes some filing of the spider to get the chain to clear, but that shouldn't be too much hassle.

Chain Reaction Cycles has the triple XTs in 180mm (my size) for $175 shipped to the USA. Not bad. I might do that if you all think it will work for me.

So, it seems this would just be a matter of replacing the crankset and doing the mod for the granny gear, amiright?

 

[Goran_injo]

Well, perhaps it is time for 11-10 drivetrain compatibility.


Anyone know will the new 11sp 9000 XTR rear derailleur work with 10sp shifters?

I'd like to use the new derailleur to swallow the 10sp 11-42 cassette without b-screw strain, and invest in possible 11sp conversion down the line.

 

[rschreck]

Bought an XT front derailleur to replace the Deore front on my 2014 Pugsley. Just found out the XT front d is a 10-speed (had no freaking clue front d's went by cassette type) and my Pugs is a 9-speed. Am I screwed? If it matters, will be running a 9-speed SLX rear d (which I also just ordered to replace the Deore rear), Microshift 9-speed shifters.

 

[Ronnie]

Bought an XT front derailleur to replace the Deore front on my 2014 Pugsley. Just found out the XT front d is a 10-speed (had no freaking clue front d's went by cassette type) and my Pugs is a 9-speed. Am I screwed? If it matters, will be running a 9-speed SLX rear d (which I also just ordered to replace the Deore rear), Microshift 9-speed shifters.

It has nothing to do with cassette type. A ten speed chain is narrower than a nine speed. That said, I've been using a ten speed XT front derailleur with my nine speed XT front chain rings, crank and chain for years with no problem but it is a two ring specific derailleur. My cassette is nine speed.

 

[rschreck]

It has nothing to do with cassette type. A ten speed chain is narrower than a nine speed. That said, I've been using a ten speed XT front derailleur with my nine speed XT front chain rings, crank and chain for years with no problem but it is a two ring specific derailleur. My cassette is nine speed.

Perfect. Thanks man.

 

[zacster]

My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that if you go with a 10sp crank, you need a 10sp derailleur. All other combo's will work 7 with 8, 8 with 9, 9 with 8 etc... Only the 10sp with 10sp is different. The shifters OTOH, are compatible. A modern 3sp front shifter will shift 7, 8, 9, or 10, except the 10 will shift differently to match a 10sp chainring spacing. The cable pull is all the same.

I myself am running 10sp dynasys front and rear shifters, with 7sp front derailleur and crank, and 10sp XT rear. Since I almost never go off the big ring I don't pay much attention to the front shifting. It does seem to work, but the old derailleur is probably a lot stiffer than a new one so it takes some thumb muscle to shift. The rear is a very light touch.

 

[SimpleJon]

The changed cable pull between 9 and 10 Shimano MTN only applies to RD's. The only issue you may have with a 9 speed train and a 10 speed FD is a little chain rub a the extreme ranges of the cassette. FD's for 10 speed chains are slightly narrower than 9 speeds -
FWIW I ran a 9 speed drivetrain on a previous bike, Chain reaction cycles sent me a 10 Speed XT/Ultegra chain mislabled as a 9 speed, I didn't notice when I installed it (although having to adjust the FD at the time should have clued me in to the fact that something was different) The shifting was no different to the previous 9 speed chain and I used it till it wore out.

 

[zacster]

The changed cable pull between 9 and 10 Shimano MTN only applies to RD's. The only issue you may have with a 9 speed train and a 10 speed FD is a little chain rub a the extreme ranges of the cassette. FD's for 10 speed chains are slightly narrower than 9 speeds -
FWIW I ran a 9 speed drivetrain on a previous bike, Chain reaction cycles sent me a 10 Speed XT/Ultegra chain mislabled as a 9 speed, I didn't notice when I installed it (although having to adjust the FD at the time should have clued me in to the fact that something was different) The shifting was no different to the previous 9 speed chain and I used it till it wore out.

While the cable pull is the same on 7/8/9 or 10 speed in the front, the movement of the derailleur is different with 10sp, it is slightly less because everything is narrower on the 10 speed crank. 7/8/9 speed cranks/front derailleurs work fine with 10sp rear and chains.

Bottom line is this: If you have a 10speed crank, you need a 10speed front derailleur and vice versa. If you have a 7/8/9 speed crank you need a 7/8/9 speed front derailleur and vice versa. The front shifters are all the same. This is regardless of what you have in the rear.

 

[SimpleJon]

Not quite; how far the FD moves is controlled the shifter not the derailleur itself. So a 10 speed FD is going move the exact same distance as a 9 speed FD with the same shifter. The only thing that's different is that the FD cage itself is slightly narrower on a 10.

 

[zacster]

No, that's not necessarily true either. The parallelogram can adjust the derailleur movement for the same shifter pull. Whether this is implemented or not in the case of 10 speed I don't really know. What I do know is that you need to use 10 with 10, even though the rest are mix and match.

 

[rschreck]

Oh mighty MTBR forum members who know more than me, I have a stupid question.

I am running a 9 speed drivetrain on my 2014 Surly Pugsley (screw you Surly for using 9 speed). It consists of a Deore Direct Mount front derailleur (sorry can't find the model number), an SLX M662 rear derailleur, Shimano CS-HG61 cassette, and a SRAM X5 crankset. I am currently looking to replace the Microshift Thumbshifters with Shimano shifters. I don't want Deore though.

I found a pair of XTR M970 9 speed shifters for a really good price and I'm wondering if they will work with my front and rear derailluers. I'm tired of spending money on parts only to find out they won't work with a 2x9 setup.

If they won't work can anyone tell me which shifters will? Besides the Deore shifters that are offered right now.