[Appel]

I just see a big potential in reflecting the beam in a more smart way than just throwing it away in a cone.
I'm still amazed how good the saferide works considering the little amount of light it throws.

I also have 1,2,3,4 and 7 emitter lights with conical beams that I use when mountain biking. I have experimented quite a lot with elliptical optics on my Gemini Duo and Yindings. Those lights give you more light on the road, yes. But the beampattern is still better with saferide imo.
It is sad that the saferide have other flaws (bad battery time, bad emitters etc etc) and that philips does not produce the saferide anymore. It would have been interesting to here what you think if you got the opportunity to try one out.

 

[Cat-man-do]

I just see a big potential in reflecting the beam in a more smart way than just throwing it away in a cone.
I'm still amazed how good the saferide works considering the little amount of light it throws.

I also have 1,2,3,4 and 7 emitter lights with conical beams that I use when mountain biking. I have experimented quite a lot with elliptical optics on my Gemini Duo and Yindings. Those lights give you more light on the road, yes. But the beampattern is still better with saferide imo.
It is sad that the saferide have other flaws (bad battery time, bad emitters etc etc) and that philips does not produce the saferide anymore. It would have been interesting to hear what you think if you got the opportunity to try one out.

Yes, it would have. If built today using the better / brighter more efficient emitters the Saferide would undoubtedly be more popular than the original. Sad that Saferide decided to fold rather than to innovate and upgrade the product.

When the Saferide lamp initially came out I remember thinking at the time that I was not very impressed with any of the videos or beam photos I was seeing. To me it looked too dim and the throw too limited. Not to mention from what I could tell from the beam photos the overall beam pattern was not evenly uniform.

There are companies that endeavor to design bike lamps that try to control the beam pattern more. Fenix is one. There are also some German lamps that also use the "Cut-off" design but the last I time I read up on those ( yrs ago ) most of those were still somewhat under-powered. Perhaps there are some better offerings now.

The Chinese on occasion take a stab at trying to create a commuter bike light. While most of those tend to look very funky "This One" shows some promise. If you read the product description apparently the lamp is designed with a cut-off beam pattern. Funny because the Chinese didn't really know what to call it so they describe it as such...

( Kaidomain ad ) >...The NEXTORCH® B10 is a perfect light for riding, urban city and around-town commuting. It features patented RSL™ technology to provide a unique rectangular spot, delivering a 160 degree wide beam and whole-road lighting for greater visibility to guarantee rider's comfort and safety. The anti-glare design allows distinguishing the areas to be lit and those to be left dark, illuminating the road without disturbing pedestrians. The B10 has 4 modes, max output up to 400 lumens powered by 4 AA batteries. A low battery indicator keeps you from getting caught in the dark. The tool-free FlexStrap mount bracket that allows you to quickly and easily attach the B10 to virtually any handlebar.

...it would be interesting to see one of these in person. The ad beam photos look promising but alas it is best not to trust the manufacturer's ad photos. Sooner or later someone will buy one and review it. At least the price is right. If it has decent throw and an evenly dispersed beam pattern one of these might fit the bill for someone looking to buy a self-contained bar lamp for commuting and or paved bike commuting paths.

 

[MRMOLE]

I just see a big potential in reflecting the beam in a more smart way than just throwing it away in a cone.
I'm still amazed how good the saferide works considering the little amount of light it throws.

I also have 1,2,3,4 and 7 emitter lights with conical beams that I use when mountain biking. I have experimented quite a lot with elliptical optics on my Gemini Duo and Yindings. Those lights give you more light on the road, yes. But the beampattern is still better with saferide imo.
It is sad that the saferide have other flaws (bad battery time, bad emitters etc etc) and that philips does not produce the saferide anymore. It would have been interesting to here what you think if you got the opportunity to try one out.

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/mission-impossible-xml-conversion-philips-saferide-parts-1-through-5-a-800662.html

I thought you might find this interesting. It predates your MTBR join date so I'm guessing you haven't seen it yet. Also I too like elliptical optics and was wondering what types you've used in your Yinding/Duo?
Mole

 

[JohnJ80]

There are companies that endeavor to design bike lamps that try to control the beam pattern more. Fenix is one. There are also some German lamps that also use the "Cut-off" design but the last I time I read up on those ( yrs ago ) most of those were still somewhat under-powered. Perhaps there are some better offerings now.

I believe that Garmin even changes the beam shaping based on speed. The light is pretty wimpy in terms of lumens but the idea is there.

Beam shaping is probably the next big thing in bike lights. We're sort of at the end of the lumens wars so it is really the last major feature category on which to innovate.

I think it would be great if there were a smartphone app that allowed me to configure the parameters of my light - color, beam shape, brightness settings, etc.. Lupine is sort of touching on this now (my understanding) with their BT connected lights. That's a lot better than remembering some arcane button pressing UI that most lights currently use.

I tend to prefer the conical shaped lights. The way I aim them, I like the beam pattern they leave on the road for me. I'd like to be able to select that or change it for the application that best suits the riding I'm doing.

J.

 

[Cat-man-do]

Discussion on bike lamp cut-off beam patterns

...I tend to prefer the conical shaped lights. The way I aim them, I like the beam pattern they leave on the road for me. I'd like to be able to select that or change it for the application that best suits the riding I'm doing.

J.

I have no real issues with conical shaped beam patterns but I much prefer the use of optics which usually can give a more evenly dispersed beam pattern.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

In keeping with the discussion on " cut-off " beam patterns I just now did some testing with my usual bar mounted torches that I use when on commuter paved paths and this is what I discovered;

First , what I did; I mounted my bar torch to my bike and aimed it slightly down like I usually do. ( this test being done inside my home ). The bike was roughly 15 ft. ( 4.6m ) from my living room wall. I then stood in front of the wall to make some observations. While doing this I discovered a couple of interesting facts.

For one, my normal angle of downward tilt ( ~ 25° ) was not enough. When I preceded to modify the angle I discovered quite by accident that I could see the "conical cut-off" of the torch being projected on my living room wall. That turned out to be quite useful. I also discovered ( but already assumed ) that not all torch reflectors have the same spill diameter. A more narrow spill pattern turns to be more useful because you don't have to tilt it down as far. This means more light is aimed further out without shining directly into any approaching pedestrian traffic's eyesight.

I also discovered that if you do this kind of test in complete darkness it makes a lot of difference. Once your eyesight is accustomed to total darkness any "direct" on-coming source of light can be very blinding if it is not attenuated properly. I should note though that if you are more than 5 ft. or so off to one side the discomfort level is not as pronounced. The danger area is "any person directly in front of the bike". The closer they get the more the discomfort.

After my initial test I then aimed the torches more downward ( ~ 45° or more depending on the spill of the torch ). With the wall as my guide I made sure the cut-off was below my head level. This made a pronounced difference in how comfortable it was to view the lamp from the front, even with outputs up to 500 lumen. Of course at a 45° downward tilt you won't be able to see as far so this means you need to slow and pay more attention to your visible line of sight.

With these things in mind I have developed a new personal strategy for paved bike/commuter paths; I'm going to ride with my back-up bar torch on low and aim it 45° downward. My main lamp ( Gloworm X2 ) I aim as normal ( very slightly down ) and use as before. The idea being when I see approaching traffic I just turn the GW off. This of course assumes I have a far reaching POV and have time to power down the main lamp once I see approaching traffic. I just have to keep in mind that on some paved trails I don't get to do that because of the shorter viewing distances. Not to mention that on some paved trails there are sections that I come up on approaching traffic without much warning. People running and cycling can at times seem to come out of nowhere.

The last time I rode on a paved path system at night I know I blinded a couple people ( by accident ) for that very reason ( short lines of sight ) Next time I go out I'll have a much better strategy in place.

Of course like I said before, all of this pertains to "Traffic approaching directly from the front" when on narrow paved paths. If you ride on a roadway with a normal shoulder area you can be much more liberal with the adjustments of your lamp. Just remember, 5-6 ft. off to the side makes a BIG difference when it comes to glare factor. Just keep in mind all the off setting factors in how you use your lamps....total output, projection angle and lastly off-set angle and off-set distance of approaching traffic make a huge difference. With all this said when it comes to road use, "Use the amount of light you need to protect yourself from road hazards". Your safety is more important than the minor annoyance of a motorist.

 

[Appel]

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/mission-impossible-xml-conversion-philips-saferide-parts-1-through-5-a-800662.html

I thought you might find this interesting. It predates your MTBR join date so I'm guessing you haven't seen it yet. Also I too like elliptical optics and was wondering what types you've used in your Yinding/Duo?
Mole

I was already aware of that thread. Thanks anyway.

About elliptical lenses. I have the 20*60 and 30*60 from leddna. They are a little bit too wide imo. The 10*45 might be better, but I have not tested that one.

LEDDNA - Search Results for "Elliptical"

 

[tigris99]

The 10x45 is narrower laterally but the beam beams a thin strip of light. Something more towards 20x45 would be good for that purpose but not sure they even make an optic that will do it. I know leddna doesn't, not sure beyond that.

 

[Appel]

Fenix has som kind of lens that looks interesting. But I don't think one can buy them separately...
Fenixlight Limited

 

[MRMOLE]

I was already aware of that thread. Thanks anyway.

About elliptical lenses. I have the 20*60 and 30*60 from leddna. They are a little bit too wide imo. The 10*45 might be better, but I have not tested that one.

LEDDNA - Search Results for "Elliptical"

I've got the same Leddna optics and agree, too wide. For the Duo/Yinding it also created too large of a coverage area and because of their power limitations kills the intensity levels more than I'm willing to accept. I've been using Gloworm "XS ellipticals". They behave more like a traditional wide angle lens and if I had to guess at lens angle #'s I would say 20*10 or maybe 20*15. Light intensity levels don't drop too much and they retain a good amount of throw but for emulating a cut off beam they don't work too well. Best I've used for this purpose is Actions "wide angle lens" for MS808/Gemini Titan/clones. Too bad they don't work as well with smaller lens/optic diameters.
Mole

 

[Appel]

And the elliptical lenses also "cutoff" the beam both on top and on the bottom of the beam. So you loose light in front of your wheel. You only want to cutoff the top of the beam.

 

[Vancbiker]

I have long wanted a reflector from the Saferide to build a cut-off beam light with.

Spent a fair bit of time testing parabolic reflectors cut in half, trying to duplicate the Saferide. Not an easy job. None worked well enough to warrant building with.

 

[tigris99]

Still buy them on amazon . $140 though

As for the fenix lens, its a one piece optics specifically made to fit fenix dual light heads. And its not a cut off (the over hanging lip of the casing does that job, just not great at it) its basically like an elliptical spot rotated 90deg, so you have a strip of light I. A line from the front tire out to the main spot. But the lip cuts it off so it doesn't continue upwards into eyes of on coming traffic.

 

[gipsyman]

Please, if you can link to some good bike light for road use it would be helpful.

I haven't seen anybody mentioning the Specialized Flux Expert bike light. Do a Google search and you will see reviews along with Youtube videos. It uses 3 XP-G2 leds. The manufacturer rates the cut-off beam pattern at 800 lumens. It has a high beam setting that doesn't cut off completely of 1200 lumens. For 2 years, I have used a modified Philips SafeRide that is extremely efficient and has great throw (15000 lux on high) but being a flashaholic, more is always better to have available. The only time I wanted more light in the last 4000 miles of street riding with my SafeRide was on newly paved real black asphalt.

 

[Vancbiker]

Still buy them on amazon . $140 though

Just a bit much for a reflector!

 

[Cat-man-do]

I haven't seen anybody mentioning the Specialized Flux Expert bike light. Do a Google search and you will see reviews along with Youtube videos. It uses 3 XP-G2 leds. The manufacturer rates the cut-off beam pattern at 800 lumens. It has a high beam setting that doesn't cut off completely of 1200 lumens. For 2 years, I have used a modified Philips SafeRide that is extremely efficient and has great throw (15000 lux on high) but being a flashaholic, more is always better to have available. The only time I wanted more light in the last 4000 miles of street riding with my SafeRide was on newly paved real black asphalt.

( ^^..Specialized Flux Expert ) < Well there you go. A high powered bike light designed to have cut-off. Includes a remote too, good show. I like the mounting solution as well.

Would be interesting to see some better beam photos. All of the videos sucked ( as can be expected ). Not cheap, $275 is a lot of money but I suppose if you are die-hard into cut-off beam pattern you might be willing to throw down the coin. Looks like a nice set-up. I'd love to see one in person if just to see if the cut-off really works and whether it is really bright enough for the serious cyclist.

 

[Cat-man-do]

.... Never, and I mean NEVER have I ever had to either turn my head away or lift my hand to shield my eyes from someone riding a bike with a light that was too bright ( when on a road ). In the future if that ever happens I'll be sure to talk about it.

...and so I shall. It happened just last night. I was driving in an urban environment with lots of stores and streets lights. Low and behold as I'm driving down a multi lane parkway off to my right ( on the sidewalk ) I see a very, very bright light pointing in my direction. Riding against traffic ( a big no, no but on a sidewalk ) was a guy who looked to have three very bright LED lamps mounted ( in a pyramid ) to his bars. ( yes, it was very odd )

I was indeed blinded for a moment till the angle of my approaching vehicle changed enough to off set his lamp. Yeah, first time for everything but how many people are going to mount three bright LED lamps to their bars and then ride "toward approaching traffic on the wrong side of the road"? The whole incident was very odd.

I had a similar incident today: I was approaching a traffic light where I was going to make a right turn. Before I made my turn I could see a good quarter mile up the highway what appeared to be a very bright flashing white light. Once again, someone riding "Against traffic" I assume. I wasn't close enough to be blinded but no doubt if I had continued straight ahead I would of been for a brief second.

So...with all this in mind...I change my previous statement to; "I've never been blinded by anyone using a bright bike light correctly"....:smilewinkgrin:

 

[JohnJ80]

...and so I shall. It happened just last night. I was driving in an urban environment with lots of stores and streets lights. Low and behold as I'm driving down a multi lane parkway off to my right ( on the sidewalk ) I see a very, very bright light pointing in my direction. Riding against traffic ( a big no, no but on a sidewalk ) was a guy who looked to have three very bright LED lamps mounted ( in a pyramid ) to his bars. ( yes, it was very odd )

I was indeed blinded for a moment till the angle of my approaching vehicle changed enough to off set his lamp. Yeah, first time for everything but how many people are going to mount three bright LED lamps to their bars and then ride "toward approaching traffic on the wrong side of the road"? The whole incident was very odd.

I had a similar incident today: I was approaching a traffic light where I was going to make a right turn. Before I made my turn I could see a good quarter mile up the highway what appeared to be a very bright flashing white light. Once again, someone riding "Against traffic" I assume. I wasn't close enough to be blinded but no doubt if I had continued straight ahead I would of been for a brief second.

So...with all this in mind...I change my previous statement to; "I've never been blinded by anyone using a bright bike light correctly"....:smilewinkgrin:

I will grant that aiming on LED lights is more important than with incandescent or halogen lights. But once that is done, then it shouldnt be a problem. I'd guess that these lights were also aimed improperly?