[PuddleDuck]

Dave Rome says: 10 products I loved in 2021: Dave Rome

Good enough for me.

 

[Ridinglurker]

Going from 11 to 10 speed doesn't really make it simpler.

And if a 46t cassette isn't low enough, 48t isn't gonna rescue you at a hill. The Shimano 11-51 is just noticeably better and with 11 speeds gaps are smaller.

And the Shimano RD can be used for 12 speed if you ever upgrade (can use the 6100 for 11 speed). And XT shifter has the double-up shift. This to me alone would be a deciding factor.

 

[speedygz]

Going from 11 to 10 speed doesn't really make it simpler.

And if a 46t cassette isn't low enough, 48t isn't gonna rescue you at a hill. The Shimano 11-51 is just noticeably better and with 11 speeds gaps are smaller.

And the Shimano RD can be used for 12 speed if you ever upgrade (can use the 6100 for 11 speed). And XT shifter has the double-up shift. This to me alone would be a deciding factor.

We shall see. It has to make it simpler, as the physical spacing between the sprockets is greater, because there are less of them, allowing a bit more tolerance in adjustment. I'm also running an 11 speed chain, which will help even more. The double up shift doesn't worry me, as you yourself mentioned, the ratio's area greater between speeds, which should negate the need to double shift. Mostly.

Since I originally started this thread, I've also ran a Sunrace 11-51 11 speed, the MX8? Aluminium carrier version with the largest Aluminium sprocket/s, still on the bike now, it's been very very good. No issues at all with it. Indexing and shifting is fine, I enjoy experimenting with different gear, personally, myself, rather than just reading about it on the interwebz.

I'm not a racer, I don't record and compare times over segments, but I do know what I do or don't like, or just prefer a little more even. And 10 speed is that. 12 speed is no where even remotely close to the radar, let alone on it. Like I wrote, if I hate it, I'm only a shifter and cassette deep in. Hardly the end of the world.

 

[speedygz]

And if a 46t cassette isn't low enough, 48t isn't gonna rescue you at a hill.

Using exactly the same logic, going from 48 to 50 or 51 won't either

 

[Ridinglurker]

Using exactly the same logic, going from 48 to 50 or 51 won't either

Going from 46 to 51 is almost an added gear.

I don't know what problems you try to resolve. If the hanger is straight, 12 speed works fine and adjustment is easy and stays tuned forever. Again, straight hanger.

But if you want to be able to ride with a bent hanger, or don't know how to adjust the RD, you have to use 8 speed or less. 10 speed isn't that more tolerant than 11 speed.

Or go single speed.

 

[ocnLogan]

In the last 3 years I've run Microshift Advent X 10 speed, Shimano Deore 11 speed, and SRAM X01 eagle 12 speed. And before that I ran SRAM 11 speed NX (11-42t), and also a Sunrace 11-46t cassette.

The 10-11 speed setups are much less finicky to setup. Particularly with regard to the B tension, and hangar straightness. Same process, but smaller margin of error.

Going from 42t to 46t was a noticeable change in gearing. Going from 46t to 48t was sort of noticeable. Going to 48t - 51 was mostly noticeable, but still not earth shattering. On the Shimano deore 11speed cassette second gear is 45t (so 45 to 51 is the next easier gear). But on the Sram X01 eagle cassette, second gear is 42 (with a 52t as the next easier gear). Both of those are noticeable, with obviously the SRAM one being much more obvious feeling.

 

[speedygz]

Or go single speed

Yeah. Cut off your nose, to spite your face. Clown

 

[speedygz]

I don't know what problems you try to resolve.

Comprehension not your strong point is it. That's not a question by the way.
I like experimenting, and tweaking/ tinkering. I do not need 12 gear ratios. I don't mind larger gaps in between gears. I still run SLX 11-46 on one of my bikes, I actually don't mind the 9? tooth jump between the 37 and 46 sprocket. I happen to really like 10 speed. It's lighter, and more tolerant to abuse/wear.

If the hanger is straight, 12 speed works fine and adjustment is easy and stays tuned forever. Again, straight hanger.

I don't need or want 12 gears. Is that so difficult to understand? Why does that appear to offend you?

 

[speedygz]

Anyways, cassette turned up last night, straight out to the garage for a play. No dramas installing the cassette, weighed in at 413 grams. Pretty good for a 48T granny ring cassette I thought. Stripped off the XT 11 speed shifter, popped the new Microsoft Pro 10 speed on, ran a new inner cable, quickly reset the lower and upper limits, quick glance at the B screw adjustment, looked close enough, and off we went around the neighbourhood in the dark 😁
It's good. Very good. Easy to do the final tune, as you've got a bit more leeway between gears. The shifter is really really nice. Kind of a cross between Deore soft/light feel, and XT precision between clicks, with no up and down slack between the up and downshift levers. Like I wrote, really nice. Feels premium for sure.
Gear ratios? I think they've been very intelligently chosen, a bit wider steps in the lower ratios, a bit tighter on the top end. Feels good to ride, no obvious unnatural feeling jumps in ratios at either end of the gear range.
Like I said, I was just pedaling around the neighbourhood footpaths/walking trails in the dark last night, it'll get a good workout over the weekend

 

[Sloth Monster]

IDK about Advent.
All these mid-small size companies are downsizing. Think of support you may need down the line, and you may run into issues.
Don't want to be a naysayer and negative but it's the fact of the bike industry now.
Ohlins is a major company and their mountain bike division is being downsized.

 

[speedygz]

IDK about Advent.
All these mid-small size companies are downsizing. Think of support you may need down the line, and you may run into issues.
Don't want to be a naysayer and negative but it's the fact of the bike industry now.
Ohlins is a major company and their mountain bike division is being downsized.

What kind of support do you think you'd need, further down the line? I can always run another 10 speed cassette from another brand, and the shifter still works. If the shifter dies out of warranty, another late model Shimano one can be substituted. Any 10, 11 or 12 speed chain will work. It's not like you're getting into a whole proprietary drivetrain, where you've got to start changing hubs, wheels, drivers and so on. Everything mixes and matches, if you do a little bit of homework

 

[speedygz]

So, as the old saying goes about best laid plans and all that, I didn't actually get to spend much time at all with the new cassette and shifter over the weekend lol. Bike kept getting commandeered by the daughter & son in law. I guess if there's any problems to be found, MTB noobies crunching through handfuls of gears at a time are going to find them ha ha ha. No dropped chains or any other drama's. Seemed to just work, no complaints at all.
Anyway, this was waiting for me at the Post office tonight after work. Looks rather nicely made to my eye. Jockey wheels are on some sort of ball or roller bearings, spin very very smoothly indeed.

It's light. Maybe a little bit too light for rough & tumble MTB riding. probably the biggest offender is the alloy hanger mounting bolt. I've not had great luck with Aluminium alloy bolts/fasteners. Anyway, time will tell.

And all fitted up and tuned. Tweaked the B screw in and out a bit to get quicker shifts down the cassette, I'll give it a decent ride or two to let it all settle in, before making any judgement calls. Pretty good so far. Might even give it a birthday with a new shifter cable, outer housing and cable. Yeah, the inner is too long, left a bit of excess as there's a couple of different mounting options for running the cable to the anchor arm.

 

[dara_p]

What kind of support do you think you'd need, further down the line? I can always run another 10 speed cassette from another brand, and the shifter still works. If the shifter dies out of warranty, another late model Shimano one can be substituted. Any 10, 11 or 12 speed chain will work. It's not like you're getting into a whole proprietary drivetrain, where you've got to start changing hubs, wheels, drivers and so on. Everything mixes and matches, if you do a little bit of homework

I thought Microshift used a different pull ratio than Shimano old 10 speed, but I can't find precise numbers. On Microshift's FAQ page they say:

Are ADVENT X 10 sp shifters/derailleurs compatible with Shimano 10 sp shifters/derailleurs?

No. ADVENT X has a different cable pull than Shimano 10 speed products. ADVENT X shifters and derailleurs works best with ADVENT X.

Note: Shimano's new CUES and Linkglide 10 and 11 sp use a different pull ratio yet (which also doesn't match Microshift)

I'm like you - I spend a lot of time in low gears (I'm in my current bike's 17.7 gear inch low A LOT. My drivetrain's pretty old (original on a 2014 Salsa Horsethief) and I've been looking at options to replace it (and the brakes too). I'm not all that happy with any of the new bikes to be honest - and nothing is wrong with mine really. I have been leaning towards the 11-50 XT Linkglide. I kind of wish the lowest gears (biggest cogs) where closer in percentage (I came up with a pattern that bumps a few cogs up by 1 or 2 teeth and has the bottom 3 jumps at 16.3% or less as opposed to 20% for gear 3 to 4 on Linkglide. I started looking at the M5100 as an alternative - it is a LOT cheaper because they must have made a lot of that stuff and it's usually on sale somewhere. I'd get the XT shifter (M8000) if I went that route, but I'm still not sure. I like the pattern on the 11-51 a bit better (M5100's first 3 jumps: 13.3%, 15.4%, 18.2% instead of Linkglide's 16.3%, 19.4%, 20%) but I like the idea of longer lasting stuff on Linkglide (and the cassette only weighs a bit more than the 5100 but cogs are thicker and last longer).

I'm also looking at 26t chainrings (Garbaruk makes an elliptical one I'm leaning towards). A 26/50 (Linkglide) or 26/51 (M5100) would both be a full gear step below my current low and I'll definitely take it. I've tested the equivalent gear to a 26/11 on my bike (which is 2 gears below my top now) and it is absolutely fine on everything I ride. Getting old means not going up as fast AND not pedaling downhill fast for me - I'm not looking for any fast crashes ever going forward.

Anyway, good luck in your gear pursuits!

 

[speedygz]

I thought Microshift used a different pull ratio than Shimano old 10 speed, but I can't find precise numbers.

Not 100% sure, I'll only say for certain what I've actually tried myself, but I think the latest 10 speed Shimano will work. But in any case, I've yet to wear out or break a shifter in any way, shape or form. So not particularly concerned there at all

I started looking at the M5100 as an alternative - it is a LOT cheaper because they must have made a lot of that stuff and it's usually on sale somewhere. I'd get the XT shifter (M8000) if I went that route, but I'm still not sure.

That's the road I went down, until that 620gm? cassette weight got into my head. So I picked up a Sunrace 11-51 with the alloy spider and big sprocket. Very very happy with that. But the tinkering bug bit again, and here we are.
I'm not a racer, I don't use Strava or look at my times, I ride simply because it's fun, good exercise and keeps me active/mobile. I actually like the bigger steps between gears on the X, less shuffling through the cassette, and less weight. I have the M7000 on one bike, never could understand the fuss and outrage over the 46t on that. It just worked. Well.

I'm also looking at 26t chainrings

Yeah, I've got a couple of them. Just picked them up off eBay for cheap, they've been excellent. I'm actually running a 28T chainring on 165mm cranks, I've gone a 2.6" on the rear and with the 48t granny on the cassette, I'm noticing it. Since I've gained a bit of BB height with the 2.6" tyres, I swapped back to 170cranks. Yet to take it for a proper spin though. I'll carry on with the 28, if it annoys me I've already got the 26t to swap back in.
I also tried a real quick and dirty mod on an adaptor, to fit 64 BCD chainrings onto my direct mount crankset, it works just fine with a chain guide. Zero dropped chains. Then you can run any 24, 26, 28, 30t cheap chain ring you damn well please.

 

[dara_p]

Is the chainring adapter from One up? Or does anyone else make those?

Yea, the jump from 37t to 46t is too much for me on the M8000. That's 24% and is actually getting close to a double shift on my current 11-36 10sp (a jump from gear 1 to 3 on that is 28.6%). I played with that a bit when I was thinking of the Advent X (or even Box 9) and I found I hated having jumps anywhere near that big. My first 4 jumps now are 12-14% and I think I can go a little coarser, but I'd want that bottom jump to be well under 20%. When I'm in that bottom gear and cranking up a steep hill and I'm starting to spin a bit faster than I want, I have to goose it to get into gear 2 and comfortably ride there. This is no issue at 12.5%, a big issue at 28.6% and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like anything over 17%. Unfortunately that Linkglide has bigger jumps and I'm also reading that some are annoyed that with XT Linkglide you can't go down the cassette (to higher gears) nearly as fast as you can on Deore M5100 with an M8000 XT shifter. Not sure if that would bug me or not - my current SRAM drive train I have to pull a click for each gear put I can pull as 5 in rapid succession and it will go.

I also thought about biting the bullet and going 12 sp and getting the SLX 10-45 which has a very nice pattern on the easy 4 gears (11-12% for first 3 jumps). I'd only have the 26/45 low which means I'll walk on a few hills but a 26/45 is still 6% lower than my current low (a 22/36). But I'm not motivated to change the rear hub.

 

[speedygz]

Is the chainring adapter from One up? Or does anyone else make those?

Mine came with a lightweight Fovno crankset I bought. It's a direct mount to 104 BCD, I just did a real quick and dirty mod to see if it would work.
I see Stone now does one (direct mount to 64 BCD) Might order to to see how it goes

 

[speedygz]

Here's my bush mechanic effort I've got use of a milling machine and lathe, as I wrote it was just a really quick experiment. That worked really well

 

[speedygz]

Well I reckon I've hit the sweet spot. 170mm cranks with a 28t chainring, on the 11-48 Advent X cassette. I've ordered an M7100 derailleur to replace the 5100, the 5100 can do the trickle down to one of my other bikes.
The 170 cranks give just that little bit more leverage that gives just that little bit of a difference when hitting rocks or small ledges/obstacles on a steep climb. I can torque over those, without stalling or nearly stalling, & losing my balance. The slightly taller ratio over the 51t granny helps a little bit there too I think, just giving that little bit more momentum which helps with balance, without dropping a whole ratio back to 45t. Really really pleased with it now, the more I ride it the more I like it.

 

[PuddleDuck]

I see Stone now does one (direct mount to 64 BCD) Might order to to see how it goes

Thanks Speedy, I can't find a link for a direct mount adaptor 64BCD for Shimano, can you please post a link

 

[speedygz]

Thanks Speedy, I can't find a link for a direct mount adaptor 64BCD for Shimano, can you please post a link

I don't actually think I've seen a Shimano direct mount to 64BCD adaptor. In saying that, I haven't been actively looking, as I went to a GXP style 24mm spindle crank ages ago, simply due to the number of readily available aftermarket chainrings in all offsets & tooth counts. And there's some quite light, very nicely made ones floating around for cheap. Try 550gms for a 170mm crankset. For around $70 AU.
Shimano is relatively new on the scene with direct mount, it will take a while for the aftermarket industry to catch up I'm guessing.
What size chairing were you wanting to run? Shimano themselves go down to a 28t, in M8100.