"my favourite cassette for shifting is my 11-42 Shimano cassette. Just not enough range."
Right? Same here. My 12 speed XT does not shift nearly as good.

 

No personal experience with those two specific groups but I own similar stuff.

I have wide range 9 speed groups from Box and Microshift, they're both great. I prefer the bigger jumps between gear ratios, it just makes for less rapid-fire shifting. The Box is the top tier Box One Prime 9, and the Microshift is the less expensive 9 speed Advent group which works as intended but lacks a refined feel you get from Shimano for example. The Advent X being the "high performance" group so I'm sure it's even better than the 9 speed Advent I have.

(I also have 10spd XT on the fatbike and a few 11spd XT groups)

Of the two you're asking about, I'd ride either and be perfectly happy, though I'd probably opt for the Microshift group of those two. (If I'm buying Shimano it's probably SLX or XT level, but also I just don't currently have any desire to own 12 spd. I prefer bigger jumps between gears.)

 

I have some experience with the Advent X 10 speed and I like it. It's 100% worth the price and just works. I am work on my own stuff and am willing to put up with a few quirks for how cost effective it is.

 

I have used Advent X, and agree that it works very well. I was hesitant but curious to see how well it works, and it works so well you more or less forget about it. The lever feels very similar to 11 speed Shimano. The throw is light, the lever is comfortable. The shifting action is plenty crisp and quick.

 

I just replaced advent X with 11 speed deore (m5100, the 51-11t version).

Like you I was drawn to the Advent X because it is cheap, light, and wide range.

It was easy to setup, and I had no issues at all with the gear ratio spacing.

However after about 340 miles I am officially giving up on it for now. I had weird skipping issues with just one gear under power (completely new drivetrain on new build, and 7th gear would sometimes skip under power, not an indexing issue). I even took the cassette apart once to check to make sure I some had hadn’t put a cog on backwards somehow or something. I also had to replace the shifter after a crash bent the barrel adjuster and stripped the insert in the shifter pretty badly.

The last weird quirk is I abraded through a shift cable at deer valley. after looking at it I noticed that the cable routing means in the small cogs and the shift cable is constantly running against the “funnel” meant to make the edge softer on the cable. I can go snap a photo when I get home. But you can clearly see where the cable was wearing into the derailleur body.

Additionally after just shy of a year, the derailleur clutch or something died, and suddenly shifting at the lever was about 10x harder than normal. I serviced the clutch (easy to access, but nothing to really service), and did new shifter cable, housing, and derailleur hanger, and shifting still sucked.

So faced with buying a new derailleur, and maybe a new shifter to go with a halfway worn cassette, I elected to try out shimano 11s deore. I’ve installed it, but haven’t had a ride on it yet, so can’t report on it yet. I can say the cable routing at the derailleur end seems like it shouldn’t have the cable rub problem though (it’s a straight shot, not a 30-45 degree angle like the advent X).

And, I understand some of this might have just been damage, or bad luck. And for what it’s worth, I had issues with my old SRAM nx 11 speed too (tension spring unhooked). So maybe I’m just hard on stuff?

I actually loved the price and weight. But either I got a lemon, unlucky, or maybe it wasn’t designed for my type of riding. But I’d love to see a high quality, lightweight, high range 9-10 speed drivetrain option. Something like the equivalent of a shimano XT or SRAM x01, and 51-11t.

 

The last weird quirk is I abraded through a shift cable at deer valley. after looking at it I noticed that the cable routing means in the small cogs and the shift cable is constantly running against the “funnel” meant to make the edge softer on the cable. I can go snap a photo when I get home. But you can clearly see where the cable was wearing into the derailleur body.

I don't think Microshift are alone with that design issue. I was actually pretty surprised about the horrific angle on the inner cable at one end of the cassette, when I first fitted the m5100. So much so that I actually wrapped the inner the wrong way around the anchor bolt, before reading the instructions and learning the error of my ways. I have yet to wear through the cable as yet as I haven't put a lot of mileage on it so far (which is why I'm quite happy to swap the drivetrain over to my new steed), but I did chew through one or two inners on my m7000? (SLX 11 speed) in not a huge amount of time. Definitely a weak point of both systems

 

Thankyou for your thoughts and experiences people. For the moment, I think I'll continue with my m5100, that I'll raid off my previous bike. At some point, I'll more than likely give it a spin, and see how I like it. Or sooner, if I spot a good % off sale. I'm in no rush, so can afford to wait and watch 😄 Sounds quite promising anyway.

 

Here is a quick photo. It was hard to capture. It’s probably 1/3-1-2 of a cables depth, worn right into the derrailleur. The cable only rested in this position when in 10th gear.

It’s been a minute since I took the Microshift setup off. And your last post is making me second guess if I had it wrapped the right way around the retaining bolt . And your comment actually made me go look at the installinstructions for the M5100 derailleur as well. Luckily I got that one right on the first try (I installed it in Nov, then due to weather, holidays, work schedule, and illness I've not been on the bike since then. And wasn't quite remembering if I'd looked at the manual, or installed it by instinct).

 

Ha ha. I only picked it up because the change in length/angle threw the shift sync so far out of whack that you could only get 10 of the 11 gears, and the alignment in half them was horrible. Crunch crunch click click graunch. Thought it was an incompatible shifter for a minute 😄 What looked right, wasn't.

 

I’m a fan of MicroShift products in general, they work and the price is right. I’ve had AdventX on my main bikepacking rig for two years now and it’s been mostly untouched. I replace my chain fairly often and I haven’t had to replace the cassette yet. The group set has exceeded my expectation because when I originally purchased it during Covid I was unsure how it would be but it was the only thing I could get. The biggest improvement for me was installing a Jagwire Elite shift cable. That really improved the feel of the shifter for me, but it also adds about $50 to this budget group set.

About a year ago I bought and installed the Advent 9 speed group on my “gravel” bike. It was pretty much an install it and forget it group set. I don’t have any complaints about the jumps between the gears on this particular bike but the 9 speed would be a no go for me as a bikepacking drivetrain.

The Acolyte 8 speed group found a home on my girlfriends bike when it needed some drivetrain love. I have no time riding it because we aren’t close to the same height but she seems happy with it and hasn’t mentioned anything bad about it.

All that said I have no experience with the newer Shimano stuff because I was riding SRAM products until I was forced to look at other options during Covid. I may go back to SRAM or try Shimano in the future but for right now I don’t have any reason to get rid of the AdventX on my main bike.

 

Does anyone have actual, real world, longer term experience with the above mentioned drivetrains? I'm currently running the Deore 11-51 setup, building a new bike, & the Alloy spider Advent 11-48 10 speed system caught my eye. Couple of reasons. Simplicity -only 10 speed, & my favourite cassette for shifting is my 11-42 Shimano cassette. Just not enough range. 11-46 is not quite enough for me either (I've run 11 speed 11-46 SLX for quite a while too). Yeah, I know, heart of a cream puff & all that.

It's unfortunate you don't like 11-46 because the Shimano M4100 10sp cassette (11-46) is really good, better than the Advent X, IMO. Plus it's slightly different than most 10sp because you can use 11 & 12sp derailleurs with it. I use the M4100, an SLX or XT derailleur and a Saint shifter on all my bikes. I love it and it works flawlessly.

I had tried the Advent X for a while but I didn't really get along with it. The shifting wasn't as smooth as Shimano and the shift lever was finicky and weirdly hard to actuate. The spacing between 3rd and 4th gear (where two spider cogs fit together) was narrower than the rest of the gears (and I replaced the cassette thinking it was a defect but that's just how it is), so you ended up with chain noise on those gears. The Avent derailleur has the cable bend weirdly in the hole it comes out of and seems like a place that would prematurely fray it over time because it rubs on the derailleur housing.

Advent X is inexpensive and fairly light weight but the Shimano 10sp wide range stuff is just better quality. And because you can fit other higher end Shimano parts with the M4100 it gives you a lot more options for a better feel and quality than Microshift can. The only downsides is 46t max granny gear and some extra cassette weight. I run a 30t chainring up front and don't care about the weight penalty, so for me it's been awesome.

 

Advent X is inexpensive and fairly light weight but the Shimano 10sp wide range stuff is just better quality. And because you can fit other higher end Shimano parts with the M4100 it gives you a lot more options for a better feel and quality than Microshift can. The only downsides is 46t max granny gear and some extra cassette weight. I run a 30t chainring up front and don't care about the weight penalty, so for me it's been awesome.

Yeah, I'd love it if I could run the 11-46. But, as I'm old-ish and a bit broken, I'm currently running a 28t chainring with the 11-51. And use the full range. I was thinking about running a 26t chainring with the 11-46, definitely an option, but 26t narrow/wide are a bit difficult to come by here. And would probably spend a bit too much time on the 11 tooth sprocket. Might give it a try, see how it goes.
I know, people say just get stronger and fitter, but that doesn't stop bones and joints getting really really sore and aching.

 

Well, I just stumbled across an eBay 26t narrow/wide chainring, local seller. Supposedly. So I'll give my 11-46 11 speed cassette & derailleur another run. My back of the envelope calculations tell me I'm missing less than 1/2 a gear ratio at either end of the cassette compared to my 11-51 with 28t chainring, so should be bearable. I'll try it (the 11-46) with the newer m5100 derailleur too, out of curiosity. See how it goes. All good fun

 

After many 1x conversions done in our shop, we concluded that the only part worth using from the AdventX group is the cassette.

If you already have a 10 speed shimano shifter on your bike, the AdventX cassette is great for cheaply going to 1x. Works best with a shimano 10 speed chain and 5100 RD (most times, even 5120 is fine).

 

If you already have a 10 speed shimano shifter on your bike, the AdventX cassette is great for cheaply going to 1x. Works best with a shimano 10 speed chain and 5100 RD (most times, even 5120 is fine).

Yeah, I've got the 42T capable 10 speed Deore derailleur & XT shifter sitting on the shelf (can't remember the exact model) but at this stage I think I'll run with the m7000 setup for a while.

 

Well, I ended up fitting my m7000 11-46, & riding it back to back with the m5100, I think it's the better drivetrain (the m7000). Just runs that bit smoother, slicker, & shifts a tiny bit more precisely -for want of a better description. Running it with one of my older 28T chainrings at the minute, I think I'll be happy with it once the 26T turns up & I fit it, probably Monday. As long as I relax & just coast down the steeper hills
I tried the m5100 derailleur with the m7000 cassette, & couldn't really get it to shift down the cassette properly. Excellent shifting into lower gears, didn't want to shift into taller gears. No idea why. I didn't spend a huge amount of time on it, the chain could have been a little bit on the shorter side, but the m7000 derailleur worked brilliantly and precisely, without any effort at all on the same chain. The m5100 derailleur works really well on the 11-51 cassette, so something a bit strange there somewhere.

 

Right. A bit more investigation, and I've figured out why the m5100 derailleur isn't optimal on an 11-46 cassette. The offset of the top pulley from the cage pivot pin is too large. That's why Shimano recommend the 5120 instead of the 5100 on the 10 speed 11-46.
The issue is the large jump from the 37 to the 46 sprocket. I experimented by going to the longest possible chain length (a little bit of tension when on the 11t sprocket) to bring the top cage pulley as close to the cassette as possible, and adjusting the B screw to minimum gap on the 37-46 shift. It now happily shifts up and down the whole range of the cassette, but it's a bit less instant and precise as a derailleur optimised for a 46t max cassette. I'll run it for a little while to see if it settles in, then pop my m7000 derailleur back on.

 

So, my curiosity finally got the better of me, & I picked up the 11-48 Advent X cassette. Should be here next week. Going to run the m5100 RD with it, apparently works really well. Grabbed the Microshift Pro trail shifter, and a new 11 speed YBN chain. So a good mix and match of parts. Keep the 28T chainring, see how it goes So really, I'm only a shifter and cassette deep into it, I can live with that if it's complete cr@p and I just dump it

 

Dave Rome says: 10 products I loved in 2021: Dave Rome

Good enough for me.

 

Going from 11 to 10 speed doesn't really make it simpler.

And if a 46t cassette isn't low enough, 48t isn't gonna rescue you at a hill. The Shimano 11-51 is just noticeably better and with 11 speeds gaps are smaller.

And the Shimano RD can be used for 12 speed if you ever upgrade (can use the 6100 for 11 speed). And XT shifter has the double-up shift. This to me alone would be a deciding factor.

 

Going from 11 to 10 speed doesn't really make it simpler.

And if a 46t cassette isn't low enough, 48t isn't gonna rescue you at a hill. The Shimano 11-51 is just noticeably better and with 11 speeds gaps are smaller.

And the Shimano RD can be used for 12 speed if you ever upgrade (can use the 6100 for 11 speed). And XT shifter has the double-up shift. This to me alone would be a deciding factor.

We shall see. It has to make it simpler, as the physical spacing between the sprockets is greater, because there are less of them, allowing a bit more tolerance in adjustment. I'm also running an 11 speed chain, which will help even more. The double up shift doesn't worry me, as you yourself mentioned, the ratio's area greater between speeds, which should negate the need to double shift. Mostly.

Since I originally started this thread, I've also ran a Sunrace 11-51 11 speed, the MX8? Aluminium carrier version with the largest Aluminium sprocket/s, still on the bike now, it's been very very good. No issues at all with it. Indexing and shifting is fine, I enjoy experimenting with different gear, personally, myself, rather than just reading about it on the interwebz.

I'm not a racer, I don't record and compare times over segments, but I do know what I do or don't like, or just prefer a little more even. And 10 speed is that. 12 speed is no where even remotely close to the radar, let alone on it. Like I wrote, if I hate it, I'm only a shifter and cassette deep in. Hardly the end of the world.

 

In the last 3 years I've run Microshift Advent X 10 speed, Shimano Deore 11 speed, and SRAM X01 eagle 12 speed. And before that I ran SRAM 11 speed NX (11-42t), and also a Sunrace 11-46t cassette.

The 10-11 speed setups are much less finicky to setup. Particularly with regard to the B tension, and hangar straightness. Same process, but smaller margin of error.

Going from 42t to 46t was a noticeable change in gearing. Going from 46t to 48t was sort of noticeable. Going to 48t - 51 was mostly noticeable, but still not earth shattering. On the Shimano deore 11speed cassette second gear is 45t (so 45 to 51 is the next easier gear). But on the Sram X01 eagle cassette, second gear is 42 (with a 52t as the next easier gear). Both of those are noticeable, with obviously the SRAM one being much more obvious feeling.

 

Anyways, cassette turned up last night, straight out to the garage for a play. No dramas installing the cassette, weighed in at 413 grams. Pretty good for a 48T granny ring cassette I thought. Stripped off the XT 11 speed shifter, popped the new Microsoft Pro 10 speed on, ran a new inner cable, quickly reset the lower and upper limits, quick glance at the B screw adjustment, looked close enough, and off we went around the neighbourhood in the dark 😁
It's good. Very good. Easy to do the final tune, as you've got a bit more leeway between gears. The shifter is really really nice. Kind of a cross between Deore soft/light feel, and XT precision between clicks, with no up and down slack between the up and downshift levers. Like I wrote, really nice. Feels premium for sure.
Gear ratios? I think they've been very intelligently chosen, a bit wider steps in the lower ratios, a bit tighter on the top end. Feels good to ride, no obvious unnatural feeling jumps in ratios at either end of the gear range.
Like I said, I was just pedaling around the neighbourhood footpaths/walking trails in the dark last night, it'll get a good workout over the weekend

 

IDK about Advent.
All these mid-small size companies are downsizing. Think of support you may need down the line, and you may run into issues.
Don't want to be a naysayer and negative but it's the fact of the bike industry now.
Ohlins is a major company and their mountain bike division is being downsized.

 

IDK about Advent.
All these mid-small size companies are downsizing. Think of support you may need down the line, and you may run into issues.
Don't want to be a naysayer and negative but it's the fact of the bike industry now.
Ohlins is a major company and their mountain bike division is being downsized.

What kind of support do you think you'd need, further down the line? I can always run another 10 speed cassette from another brand, and the shifter still works. If the shifter dies out of warranty, another late model Shimano one can be substituted. Any 10, 11 or 12 speed chain will work. It's not like you're getting into a whole proprietary drivetrain, where you've got to start changing hubs, wheels, drivers and so on. Everything mixes and matches, if you do a little bit of homework

 

So, as the old saying goes about best laid plans and all that, I didn't actually get to spend much time at all with the new cassette and shifter over the weekend lol. Bike kept getting commandeered by the daughter & son in law. I guess if there's any problems to be found, MTB noobies crunching through handfuls of gears at a time are going to find them ha ha ha. No dropped chains or any other drama's. Seemed to just work, no complaints at all.
Anyway, this was waiting for me at the Post office tonight after work. Looks rather nicely made to my eye. Jockey wheels are on some sort of ball or roller bearings, spin very very smoothly indeed.

It's light. Maybe a little bit too light for rough & tumble MTB riding. probably the biggest offender is the alloy hanger mounting bolt. I've not had great luck with Aluminium alloy bolts/fasteners. Anyway, time will tell.

And all fitted up and tuned. Tweaked the B screw in and out a bit to get quicker shifts down the cassette, I'll give it a decent ride or two to let it all settle in, before making any judgement calls. Pretty good so far. Might even give it a birthday with a new shifter cable, outer housing and cable. Yeah, the inner is too long, left a bit of excess as there's a couple of different mounting options for running the cable to the anchor arm.

 

I thought Microshift used a different pull ratio than Shimano old 10 speed, but I can't find precise numbers.

Not 100% sure, I'll only say for certain what I've actually tried myself, but I think the latest 10 speed Shimano will work. But in any case, I've yet to wear out or break a shifter in any way, shape or form. So not particularly concerned there at all

I started looking at the M5100 as an alternative - it is a LOT cheaper because they must have made a lot of that stuff and it's usually on sale somewhere. I'd get the XT shifter (M8000) if I went that route, but I'm still not sure.

That's the road I went down, until that 620gm? cassette weight got into my head. So I picked up a Sunrace 11-51 with the alloy spider and big sprocket. Very very happy with that. But the tinkering bug bit again, and here we are.
I'm not a racer, I don't use Strava or look at my times, I ride simply because it's fun, good exercise and keeps me active/mobile. I actually like the bigger steps between gears on the X, less shuffling through the cassette, and less weight. I have the M7000 on one bike, never could understand the fuss and outrage over the 46t on that. It just worked. Well.

I'm also looking at 26t chainrings

Yeah, I've got a couple of them. Just picked them up off eBay for cheap, they've been excellent. I'm actually running a 28T chainring on 165mm cranks, I've gone a 2.6" on the rear and with the 48t granny on the cassette, I'm noticing it. Since I've gained a bit of BB height with the 2.6" tyres, I swapped back to 170cranks. Yet to take it for a proper spin though. I'll carry on with the 28, if it annoys me I've already got the 26t to swap back in.
I also tried a real quick and dirty mod on an adaptor, to fit 64 BCD chainrings onto my direct mount crankset, it works just fine with a chain guide. Zero dropped chains. Then you can run any 24, 26, 28, 30t cheap chain ring you damn well please.

 

Is the chainring adapter from One up? Or does anyone else make those?

Yea, the jump from 37t to 46t is too much for me on the M8000. That's 24% and is actually getting close to a double shift on my current 11-36 10sp (a jump from gear 1 to 3 on that is 28.6%). I played with that a bit when I was thinking of the Advent X (or even Box 9) and I found I hated having jumps anywhere near that big. My first 4 jumps now are 12-14% and I think I can go a little coarser, but I'd want that bottom jump to be well under 20%. When I'm in that bottom gear and cranking up a steep hill and I'm starting to spin a bit faster than I want, I have to goose it to get into gear 2 and comfortably ride there. This is no issue at 12.5%, a big issue at 28.6% and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like anything over 17%. Unfortunately that Linkglide has bigger jumps and I'm also reading that some are annoyed that with XT Linkglide you can't go down the cassette (to higher gears) nearly as fast as you can on Deore M5100 with an M8000 XT shifter. Not sure if that would bug me or not - my current SRAM drive train I have to pull a click for each gear put I can pull as 5 in rapid succession and it will go.

I also thought about biting the bullet and going 12 sp and getting the SLX 10-45 which has a very nice pattern on the easy 4 gears (11-12% for first 3 jumps). I'd only have the 26/45 low which means I'll walk on a few hills but a 26/45 is still 6% lower than my current low (a 22/36). But I'm not motivated to change the rear hub.

 

Is the chainring adapter from One up? Or does anyone else make those?

Mine came with a lightweight Fovno crankset I bought. It's a direct mount to 104 BCD, I just did a real quick and dirty mod to see if it would work.
I see Stone now does one (direct mount to 64 BCD) Might order to to see how it goes

 

Here's my bush mechanic effort I've got use of a milling machine and lathe, as I wrote it was just a really quick experiment. That worked really well

 

Well I reckon I've hit the sweet spot. 170mm cranks with a 28t chainring, on the 11-48 Advent X cassette. I've ordered an M7100 derailleur to replace the 5100, the 5100 can do the trickle down to one of my other bikes.
The 170 cranks give just that little bit more leverage that gives just that little bit of a difference when hitting rocks or small ledges/obstacles on a steep climb. I can torque over those, without stalling or nearly stalling, & losing my balance. The slightly taller ratio over the 51t granny helps a little bit there too I think, just giving that little bit more momentum which helps with balance, without dropping a whole ratio back to 45t. Really really pleased with it now, the more I ride it the more I like it.

 

I don't actually think I've seen a Shimano direct mount to 64BCD adaptor. In saying that, I haven't been actively looking, as I went to a GXP style 24mm spindle crank ages ago, simply due to the number of readily available aftermarket chainrings in all offsets & tooth counts. And there's some quite light, very nicely made ones floating around for cheap. Try 550gms for a 170mm crankset. For around $70 AU.
Thanks again @speedygz
NICE!!
Which Fovno cranks would you be happy to use?
Do you have any issues with the Fovno style crank and BSA BB's?

What size chairing were you wanting to run? Shimano themselves go down to a 28t, in M8100.
28T is probably the lowest. I like the greater availability of offsets and tooth counts that are available using the SRAM chainring mount, and I'd like to use a Shimano chain (on some bikes), and it looks like I can do that. 😎😎

 

Which Fovno cranks would you be happy to use?

I've had a set of the Fovno Phantom 170mm cranks for just over 4 years now. Only issue I've had is the Aluminium bolt on the non drive side cracked on the shoulder of the thread where it meets the head, & I noticed the crank came loose. Ordered another bolt through Risk components, with a thicker head, 15mmX1 from memory, & it's been fine since. Been on 3 different bikes now, no complaints. 170mm is the shortest they go. I've also had a set of 170mm Snail SXX cranks, with the Shimano style split spline crank clamp interface for nearly as long, they're a little bit heavier -just over 600 gms from memory, as I think they run a steel spindle, but they've been faultless. And I've also ran a set of 165mm Deckas GXP style 24mm spindle cranks as well. Only issue I've had with them is that the self extractor cap unwound itself as I was removing them the other night, & I couldn't find the appropriate tool to wind it back in tight again. A block of wood and a tap with a hammer popped the crank arm right off anyway, no drama's there.