[Zowie]

Here you go.
Reynolds Technology
Now let's see the specs for "Natch" chromoly. Your move....

I asked what the difference was, not what comes up as the top hit when you look up "Reynolds 520". 4130 is an open standard for a certain alloy/heat treatment, you should have no problems looking up any info on it you need, if you're not familiar with it.

If you can, act like you're thinking.

 

[bikeny]

Here, I'll repost it for you:

That doesn't say you can't ride a carbon frame on trails.

I'm done with this one.

 

[ak-rider]

Trust me, I'm far from offended. But then, you weren't really 'questioning,' were you?

If you're gonna sling mud, expect that someone is probably going to ask you to back it up with real info. Your response speaks volumes.

I asked what the difference was, not what comes up as the top hit when you look up "Reynolds 520". 4130 is an open standard for a certain alloy/heat treatment, you should have no problems looking up any info on it you need, if you're not familiar with it.

If you can, act like you're thinking.

Weak responses. When a brand name tubing is used info is available and that's what I linked to. Now for you, go ahead, post details on what makes "Natch" so special.

 

[Zowie]

Weak responses. When a brand name tubing is used info is available and that's what I linked to. Now for you, go ahead, post details on what makes "Natch" so special.

Strong response, holmes.

You didn't even read my post, I'll start returning the favor.

 

[Velobike]

What's the difference between Reynolds 520 and 4130?
I mean, the 520 is name brand, so it must be better, but I want to know why.

In the case of Reynolds steel, maybe the brand is all there is, but it is a brand that produces steel of consistent quality. I have prewar bikes made with Reynolds steel, so it is a proven performer and I know if I buy a bike made from their steel its quality (steel) will be good. For their higher grades they also have quality control measures that anyone they supply has to conform to.

Generic 4130 is a lottery - it may be from a reputable supplier, or it may be gaspipe stamped 4130.

There's 2 aspects to frame quality. The quality of the materials, and the quality procedures of the frame builder. Reputation gives better prospects of a quality final product (but not certainty).

 

[Smithhammer]

Weak responses. When a brand name tubing is used info is available and that's what I linked to. Now for you, go ahead, post details on what makes "Natch" so special.

Sorry, but I'm not going to play your little troll game, so don't bother trying to deflect. I never said Natch was anything 'special' (though I do think it's a perfectly good material). You claimed their 'marketing exceeded common sense,' so I simply asked you for specific examples of where they have made claims that you think don't add up. Not surprisingly, you've provided nothing of the sort. You've been called out, and you've demonstrated that you're full of ****, end of story.

 

[Zowie]

Generic 4130 is a lottery - it may be from a reputable supplier, or it may be gaspipe stamped 4130.

From that frame of reference, any product is a lottery.

Shall we stop buying anything that's worth faking?

 

[dudeist]

Wouldn't it be appropriate to consider bike weight as proportionate to rider weight, instead of an addition to total weight? And frame weight as a proportion of total bike weight? I've put on a lighter seat and noticed the difference.

 

[Velobike]

From that frame of reference, any product is a lottery.

Shall we stop buying anything that's worth faking?

Aye, but the odds are much better when you buy from reputable suppliers as opposed to generics with brand names stuck on.

 

[headwind]

I'm a bit of a retro grouch as well. Interesting experience, I wouldn't have thought that would be the case but matches what the Sheldon Brown article said. I've not ever experienced that with aluminum bikes but would totally be open to it.

I bought my Columbus tubed Marinoni new in 1987. I bought my Cromo Nishiki Continental new in 1984. My 853 Reynolds Sherpa in 2008. I won't mention all of my bikes here but I will say I'm a big fan of steel. Maybe that's why I own three Kona Units including a new 2017 27.5+. I have raced steel and aluminum on the road and in cross. And I have broken steel frames.
But I also own carbon bikes and aluminum bikes. The new CAAD12 rides smoother than any of the carbon bikes I own. It also ride smoother on the road than my 2016 Jake the Snake on 38's.
There is more to ride quality than the material. I've ridden some ti bikes that I would not own. Same with steel.
When I bought my Farley 7 I expected a nice tight compact frame and it does not disappoint. I had ridden a Surly ICT and I found it to flexy. Especially in the rear stays. You could hear the tire nibbling on the frame in some situations. There is no way I could tell if the ICT or the Farley was less tiring or fatiguing. These are fat bikes with 5 psi, not a an endurance road bike on a gran fondo. If I had to race one it would be the Farley not the ICT. And yes, 2lbs in any race is a huge difference.
Buy what you find gives you that magic ride. Saying you only like steel because it rides better is just saying you need to ride more bikes.
A lot more bikes.

 

[Zowie]

Aye, but the odds are much better when you buy from reputable suppliers as opposed to generics with brand names stuck on.

Generic vs. reputable is more goal post moving.
Generic can be reputable, brand name can be crap--not only possible, it happens on a regular basis.

 

[ak-rider]

Strong response, holmes.

You didn't even read my post, I'll start returning the favor.

All the info you asked for was in my link.

Sorry, but I'm not going to play your little troll game, so don't bother trying to deflect. I never said Natch was anything 'special' (though I do think it's a perfectly good material). You claimed their 'marketing exceeded common sense,' so I simply asked you for specific examples of where they have made claims that you think don't add up. Not surprisingly, you've provided nothing of the sort. You've been called out, and you've demonstrated that you're full of ****, end of story.

Rather than resorting to insults and profanity maybe try to apply some critical thinking instead. I'll make it simple for you: Why does Surly charge a premium price for a bike/frameset made of generic Taiwanese cro-mo tubing? Please post some technical details on the make up of their "Natch" tubing.

For me, I have a lot more faith in the tubing manufacturers logo on a frame set than some random OEM blog post claiming their tubing is just as good.

 

[ak-rider]

Headwind,
It wasn't my intention to come off like I think only steel bikes ride well. I've got an open mind about it, I was wondering if the difference I felt in the past with MTB's was present with fatbikes.

I've got a large number of bikes between my own and my family's bikes and overall the steel ones have ridden better as a general rule. I've certainly not ridden everything out there and am always open to it if given a chance. If Ti wasn't so expensive I'd have a titanium hardtail as I've always wanted one.

It's good to hear that modern aluminum bikes can provide a good ride. For the budget I usually stick with on new bikes, aluminum is generally the material available.

 

[ak-rider]

Generic vs. reputable is more goal post moving.
Generic can be reputable, brand name can be crap--not only possible, it happens on a regular basis.

Example please.

 

[Smithhammer]

Rather than resorting to insults and profanity maybe try to apply some critical thinking instead.....

For me, I have a lot more faith in the tubing manufacturers logo on a frame set than some random OEM blog post claiming their tubing is just as good.

Classic bait and switch. I wasn't the one dissing their steel, you were. And you've provided nothing to back it up when asked. Case closed.

Nothing wrong with having an opinion at all (I certainly have mine as well), but jumping on a forum and making a string of comments dissing a brand without any real substance is generally considered poor form. If you have real information you'd like to offer up, then that's great. Objective information is always good. Subjective slinging is useless.

 

[JAGI410]

Some Things About Our Steel | Spews | The Information Hole | Surly Bikes

I have ridden thousands of miles on Surly bikes, and their steel is just fine. I've ridden hundreds of miles on Reynolds 853, 531, and Zona, and can't tell that much of a difference. Perhaps I'm not picky enough.

 

[schnee]

Example please.

you've demonstrated that you're full of ****, end of story.

Poetry.

 

[Bikin' Bric]

This thread has runs it course..... right off the rails. /Closed.