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In my experience, dropping the outside foot simply makes it easier (and more stable) to lean the bike over further (relative to the body) and engage the side knobs.

This is why I find it useful on flat turns.

However, it does mean I am more “locked in” to the bike, so it is not good if there are obstacles (like roots/rocks) in the turn.
 
Weighting the outside foot when Mt Biking is similar if not the same as a Ski turn. Just like with a ski when placing pressure on the outside foot the inside edge of your tire or ski can carve or hook up with the surface. Of course with skiing every turn is dependent on weighting the outside or downhill ski whereas with Mt Biking its not.


 
Maybe it’s off topic, but I feel it’s a pedal-drop adjacent question: do you only lean the bike or do you lean with the bike?

Many of the tutorials out there state how you must only lean the bike and you have to be in a vetical position to transfer weigth down to the tires, rotating only the hips towards the corner. But if you look at most pros they actually lean with the bike. There’s a decent comparison in this video:

I don't see why there's an X on the right-side of that intro pic. That's just a technique adapted proper for his slower speed. The left guy seems like he is more comfortable carrying speed. First piece of advice I'd give to rider on the right is that he has PLENTY of room to get his CoM (hips/core) lower. Can be accomplished with just a bit more bend in elbows and knees.

Anyway, I don't think it's good to judge things like lean of the bike by a still pic, so I try not to go too deep. Overall, looks like he has followed what people had told him about cornering.
 
I think the bottom line of teaching techniques to beginner skill levels is reducing mistakes that lead to injury/damage.

For example:

Washing out the front: this is often caused by steering the front wheel a bit too much, with too much momentum wanting to go in the original direction and disagreeing with the direction the front wheel is wanting to go in. Some refer to it as the front wheel being pushed.

One basic counter-measure I developed is to simply remind yourself that your body needing to make the direction change is different from the bike needing to make the direction change. The bike is connected to the ground and the rider is connected to the bike. You need to plan accordingly, based on what's upcoming on the trail. Sometimes, you don't need to change the direction of the body that much, since the trail immediately zig-zags back. Technically, the body might not even ever need to change direction, like in a chicane. You can basically make your bike take the twists alone, while the body goes sideways to stay connected to the bike, with the core of your body hovering over the apex and the bike being sped up to whip back under to catch the falling body.

On a wide and long carving turn, like on most open paths (like roads), you generally need to work on the optimal alignment angles between you and the trail, for whatever speed you're going at. This is trained up in a parking lot, even a dirt and gravel one, and relies on subconscious muscle memory. The more experience you got, the more data the muscle memory has to work off of to pick an optimal technique for whatever circumstances you enter. I rarely make any conscious decision, unless I'm experimenting. I just crouch and pick a speed that I know I can pull off, and the muscle memory pulls it off. Those videos don't say it, but they're probably just encouraging you to get such experience through targeted training. I guarantee that you won't look anything like the demonstration, since your circumstances will be different and your body is convinced that it has a better adaptation figured out from experience. You basically have to break the body's programming if you think it's wrong and want to switch to a less intuitive one, with forceful conscious adaptation.

A lot of the techniques I pointed out in my first post on this thread counters the washing-out-the-front issue. This is a case of skipping a lot of unnecessary trial and error experience. Getting butt jutted out, crouching low to take advantage of space created by saddle slammed as low as poss, pushing/rolling front wheel in direction I want to go... this last one still incorporates steering, so it might come as a surprise to those who think steering is the issue. It works since the body is primed to change direction, rather than acting like a sack of potatoes, and the bike is already on the correct course and acts as an extra compelling force to change the body's direction (pulls the body into that direction, with minimal risk of wash-out). You need every thing you can get to help change the body's direction, especially if the ground lacks lateral support, and I find this is a relatively safe technique to add to the mix to make sharper turns. Leaning by itself often goes wide, hence why I added this to re-enable steering into the mix and improve the accuracy/precision of staying on whatever line I envisioned taking (proved possible/realistic through experience). It's hard to explain, but I believe steering sort of modulates the amount of lean. My habit of making my body cut the inside, and let the bike swing wide, tends to make the lean a bit excessive, so turning the handlebars more to the inside raises it up, leaving my feet/legs to act as suspension. A pre-requisite to this technique is to not put much weight on the bars, leaving the arms loose/free to use for control.

Also, fair reminder: overthinking things can set you back as much as not thinking enough. Trust in the basics and come up with some confidence to break past your fears, excuses, etc. that prevent you from exploring outside your comfort zone. You learn more from mistakes and shame, IMO. Don't hide from such mistakes; get them out of your system sooner, so you can progress faster. The only pride you should take advantage of is the kind that says you can do whatever someone else can do, like Chris Kovarik's high speed drifting; don't let it talk you into believing that you're already at a higher level than most and fight any attempt to destabilize that belief, that makes it seem as if there's actually a long way to go to actually being called good. I'm still learning lots and not trying to tout/imply that I'm an expert--I'm just practicing trying to explain things to test my own understanding. I was hitting turns faster on my commute the other day to see if I even do what I was preaching... also, I sort of advanced to the straight-lining and jumping phase where I skip over unnecessary curves (I don't follow the other tire tracks on trails around corners anymore, convinced that they're newbie trap lines), ever since I got comfortable on the emtb, so I practice this stuff even less. XD
 
Whatever weight you put into the pedals goes through the bottom bracket. Doesn't matter where the cranks are.

Which brings me to another myth, that you can increase weight on the front tire without increasing weight on your hands. The BB is a pivot. If you can perfectly balance with no hands, just your feet on the pedals (you probably can't actually do this), all your weight goes through the BB. So if you want to shift the weight bias forward what do you do? Think just leaning forward will do it? No, without your hands on the bar you'll just fall forward. You must use another contact point for balance. Any fore-aft weight shift on the bike is accompanied by a change in weight/pressure on the bars.
Correct however your centre of gravity relative to the tyres' contact patches is determined by where your hips are. Changing crank position can help you achiece greater weight shifts. If the bottom bracket is not directly under your COG then it acts as a fulcrum.
 
Discussion starter · #68 ·
Again it's not that weighting the left or right pedal make no difference, it's that it doesn't increase weight on the tires. Where you're balanced relative to the bike will change. Everyone has taken an inside foot off at some point and found it helps catch a slide (which is not a steady state cornering scenario).
I wonder if this is because taking the inside foot off shifts any weight that was there entirely to the outside.
 
I wonder if this is because taking the inside foot off shifts any weight that was there entirely to the outside.
Yeah. If you just stand there with one foot on the ground and the other the pedal with the bike leaned in then shift your weight onto the pedal the bike will stand up. Taking the inside foot off helps keep the bike upright and hopefully give you time to catch the slide.
 
Physics says you can corner better with lower COG. Where do you think the "longer, lower, slacker" mantra came from? ...and dropper posts?
Pedals level is not a universal solution.

-F
 
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