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charger 2 damper modifications

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#421 ·
Jukis said:
Anyone running a damper with a huge bypass open and expecting good changes from other variables.
Dont take it personal, theres lots of good info in these forums from people that understand how dampers should work, its just split into tiny fractions and it takes a long time to get a clue of it, mostly because these threads are full of meaningless debates and other ****.
Try what the pro's are telling us, if you arent happy with the results come share it, if you are happy with the results also come and share it.
Dont take one piece from the pro's advice and ignore the rest and expect it to work.
Click to expand...
You just seem to be telling us that "you get it and we don't".

How is removing the ring shim from a Charger 2 RCT3 analogous to "running a damper with a huge bypass open"?

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#422 ·
Like I said dont take it personal, there are like tens of people in this thread commenting about their issues and most of them still think that harshness comes from too much damping.
I dont want to argue with anyone, I'm saying that you should do all the mods that pro's have said instead of doing one or two and expecting it to work good.
Removing ring shim is a start. Unless you're super lightweight you should add more compression to the stock stack at the same time though. When you've done that, you cant expect it to just magically become good. You need to adjust your bypass port to bleed a lot less = making your damper dampen more. Then you need to lower your pressure or take out a token. The lower pressure and more damping is what will make things feel a lot less harsh. With a stock rct3 lsc adjuster you will likely not be able to get enough damping.
If it really is an issue of too much HSC then its in the mid valve. And if it is then you should anyways get more compression damping on your base valve, to increase pressure for the mid valve. The fix for the mid valve is not a thinner shim like Darren showed us. Its something else. But his video showed that the thinner valve did lower the hsc, even if just a little. It just wasnt a good enough mod for it.
 
#423 ·
#424 ·
Then "most of them" are probably right. You claim to agree with Dougal, and he believes the Charger 2 RCT3 to be harsh because of excessive HSC damping. Obviously, a lack of LSC causing the rider to use more spring will increase harshness. But too little compression damping itself isn't causing harshness.

Obviously, removing the ring shim isn't a comprehensive damper solution. But, it is a step in the right direction and was recommended by Dougal.

You keep saying to "fix" the LSC. Great, I would love to. What are you suggesting?

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#426 ·
Maybe dip the needle in epoxy and then shape it to be an actual needle istead of a plunger.

But you're wrong in that, too little compression damping does cause harshness.. We dont have infinite travel in our forks.
If i'm hitting a 5cm high curb its best to just let the bypass handle it, let the fork soak it all up and return back up after the hit.
But if I'm hitting a 15cm curb, its best that the damper starts slowing the shaft speed and raising my handlebar asap when the tire touches the curb, it will make the impact a lot less spikey then letting the handlebar keep traveling forward (and not up) untill the fork has bottomed out or encountered a wall of progression and then force the handlebar straight up so that the wheel can climb over the curb.
 
#427 ·
Jukis said:
Maybe dip the needle in epoxy and then shape it to be an actual needle istead of a plunger.

But you're wrong in that, too little compression damping does cause harshness.. We dont have infinite travel in our forks.
If i'm hitting a 5cm high curb its best to just let the bypass handle it, let the fork soak it all up and return back up after the hit.
But if I'm hitting a 15cm curb, its best that the damper starts slowing the shaft speed and raising my handlebar asap when the tire touches the curb, it will make the impact a lot less spikey then letting the handlebar keep traveling forward (and not up) untill the fork has bottomed out or encountered a wall of progression and then force the handlebar straight up so that the wheel can climb over the curb.
Click to expand...
When people say their fork feels "harsh", they are usually talking about the first 50% or so of travel. That isn't from too much compression damping.

A fork that is overly progressive, can't use full travel, or bottoms harshly is described differently.

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#428 ·
If i set my fork 73psi, none tokens (160mm, 70kg) then it feels "ok" for normal non aggressive trail riding. But as soon i hit 30cm jump it immediatetely bottoms out, so this can be only weak HSC.
Thats why they they put 2 tokens in, to hide the weakness of the damper.
I need way more initial bump sensitivity without blowing through on smaller bumps.
 
#429 ·
x-rated said:
If i set my fork 73psi, none tokens (160mm, 70kg) then it feels "ok" for normal non aggressive trail riding. But as soon i hit 30cm jump it immediatetely bottoms out, so this can be only weak HSC.
Thats why they they put 2 tokens in, to hide the weakness of the damper.
I need way more initial bump sensitivity without blowing through on smaller bumps.
Click to expand...
Isn't stock 2 tokens on those? Taking them all out is usually for less aggressive riders.
 
#430 ·
x-rated said:
If i set my fork 73psi, none tokens (160mm, 70kg) then it feels "ok" for normal non aggressive trail riding. But as soon i hit 30cm jump it immediatetely bottoms out, so this can be only weak HSC.
Thats why they they put 2 tokens in, to hide the weakness of the damper.
I need way more initial bump sensitivity without blowing through on smaller bumps.
Click to expand...
So you still have stock stack or what? I'd suggest you try the change you were planning. It can only get better when you remove preload and make your stack a bit stiffer.
 
#432 ·
x-rated said:
i dont like how tokens flatten the mid stroke, especially if the damper has also a weakness there. Instead i like to increase pressure but this results in unresponsive beginning stroke on C2.
Click to expand...
I can appreciate that. But the fork doesn't have any other features to help bottom-out. No HBO, no second air chamber.

It's a case of the damper being handed too much of the job because the air spring ain't up to it. Either compromises have to be made or you need to start with some better hardware.
 
#433 ·
x-rated said:
If i set my fork 73psi, none tokens (160mm, 70kg) then it feels "ok" for normal non aggressive trail riding. But as soon i hit 30cm jump it immediatetely bottoms out, so this can be only weak HSC.
Thats why they they put 2 tokens in, to hide the weakness of the damper.
I need way more initial bump sensitivity without blowing through on smaller bumps.
Click to expand...
Just for comparison, with my 2.0 RC ( 22% sag, 93kg, 170mm, 80psi, no tokens) it is about the same.
As long as I take on say 5cm curbs it is fine, going 15cm a bit "harsh" and dropping to flat from 70cm is really "harsh" and also only using 150mm - it does not feel overdamped, more like too much air pressure. But with less pressure it has too much sag and rides quite low, not great.
But dropping from 1-1.2m into flat it bottoms out really hard, as if there is no damping at all (oil is RS like stock) and that little bit more force feels like there is a "blow-by" effect (reminding me of the Durolux).
Time for a better fork.
 
#437 ·
lawson said:
Plenty, in the separate thread for it mate.

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Click to expand...
thx. ill check the thread out. after a quick scan, given the reduced neg spring will generally hurt the mid stroke support, i'm guessing it's not a net positive if you're looking to offload work from the damper.

i wonder if just using the taller footnut w/out the new seal head would be a net positive?
 
#438 ·
My mod stack is this in a 2.1 damper.

18x0.1
18x0.1
13x0.1
18x0.1
16x0.1
16x0.1
14x0.1
12x0.1

Ive been trying this to understand some of the relationship between hsc and lsc. Also to understand how the HSC compression adjuster effects the stack as felt like it had a big impression on LSC by pre loading the stack.

I've managed to run higher fork presssure without it feeling harsh on small bump which has probably helped with some mid stroke support. But still think it can be improved.

Also tried adding a spacer to increase the negative chamber volume which has been interesting. Running alot higher pressure with alot more compliance on small bumps, not enough testing to see on larger bumps.
 
#439 ·
Do you have a picture of the compression piston? Why the 13mm shim, is this really a crossover?

How thick was the spacer and did you go dual air solution? Because the piston would never equalize if its above the dimple.
 
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