Same as bushings do in automotive suspension. Just another layer of isolation.

If we have tires, why do we need any suspension.

 

Just another layer of isolation.

If we have tires, why do we need any suspension.

Meanwhile on Mattress Review Forum, "You don't need a mattress with stuffing, you can just let some air out"

Tires kind of screw up what the suspension does but they are needful to make traction, no one has yet invented anything better. They are like never-ending springs with no damping.

 

I'd rather have the 20mm of suspension they lost than a rubber cup taking up the same space. Pike can only do 140mm now and Lyrik 160mm. They used to be 160 and 180mm.

 

Different argument though. I also think that with the zeb, they could realign their product suite. There was a lot of overlap between the lyrik and zeb.

Yea, I work too much at a program level these days I think.

 

Mountain bike marketing 101 - if it doubt, put a elastomer somewhere

 

I think those buttercup elastomers are for high frequency small movements, like when you ride over a cobblestone paved path. They compress before any ever so little stiction in the air chamber will occur.
All those rubber isolation in cars does the same, plus you can hear it - leave it away and the cars become quite loud inside.

Not that this really matters for suspension. RS should have done something against stiction in their forks in the first place. But as said before, it sells.

 

The majority of stiction is in the lowers, not the damper piston or air-spring (unless you've got the really cheap charger with all the stiction). So buttercups aren't going to help you with those frequencies. Those frequencies are so fast they can only be absorbed by the tyres. Even if it could slide freely enough the natural frequency of your unsprung weight against the ground is just too slow.

This type of isolation in cars is about noise. Stopping your metal cage from turning into a metal drum from road noise. We don't have that on a bike.

 

2cent: Corratec tried integrating "buttercups" into their rear suspension some time ago:

First Look: A new revolutionary suspension system by Corratec?

German bike manufacturer, Corratec, gave us an inside look at their brand new prototype suspension system, 10HZ. Their groundbreaking innovation: Corratec uses an elastomer in the rear shock to reduce vibrations and smooth out small bumps. Words & Photos: Robin Schmitt

enduro-mtb.com

might be more beneficial there, with (almost) no friction from the bearings but probably some sticky air shock seals...

 

The real question is whether the buttercups actually make a noticeable improvement. There is a long thread here about the new Lyrik Ultimate feeling harsh, so apparently not?

2023 RockShox Lyrik Ultimate feeling harsh...

Has anyone here put any time on the new 2023 Rockshox Ultimate forks(Lyrik or Pike)? I just put a new Lyrik on my fresh SC Bronson I built up. The fork feels harsh compared to the previous model. At the recommended pressures, I am no where close to being able to achieve full travel. The...

www.mtbr.com

However, that harshness might be due to the damper and might have nothing to do with the buttercups.

I believe the Lyrik Select+ has the same damper as the Ultimate, but doesn't have the buttercups. It would be interesting to see a test of them side-by-side to see if the buttercups make a noticeable difference.

 

The real question is whether the buttercups actually make a noticeable improvement. There is a long thread here about the new Lyrik Ultimate feeling harsh, so apparently not?

If the bushes are tight AF then the fork will ride **** regardless of the latest marketing BS.

 

Never fear! Soon to be released - Buttercups+, which will solve this problem via elastomers filled with an adjustable air chamber (and create 3 more different problems) for the low, low price of only $211.00. Preorder now!

 

Are they going to bring back Judy Butter?

 

They did already - for some years now they suggest using RS Butter in their manuals instead of that green slime called DSG that was recommended before.

 

Buttercups 1.2

 

I wonder if they hire a marketing team for their jargon or they just smoke a ton of pot?
Buttercups...mmm

 

 

I can’t believe it’s not butter cups.

 

Let see if they put buttrrcup in the next Sid Ultimate as well.
Fork with Sid Ultimate name usually only contain features that worth the weight.
Afterall, it skipped a good ergonomic rebound adjuster knob (use removable modified hex key instead).
It skipped any possibility to adjust HSR, HSC and even LSC. The air chamber has low volume, so it ramp up so much even with no volume spacer. The damper has tiny amount of oil so it won't like extended long descend.

Now, let see if Buttercup is decided too heavy for its job or worth it.

 

We've come full circle. When I first started mountain biking, suspension was pretty much only elastomers, and they were awful most of the time, even worse when it got cold.
25 years later, here we are again.

 

They are on my Lyrik but I haven't had enough time on it to tell if it makes a difference or not. I think between 2.6in tires, CushCore, and ti bars, they can't make that big of a difference (I'm pretty sensitive to hand fatigue), but we'll see

Part of me wonders if it's some kind of workaround for another problem somewhere they are marketing as a solution for vibration. I just haven't figured out what yet, maybe to prevent damage to damper/spring rods from shops overtorqing the foot bolts?



They've been showing up again a few places, Flexx bars being another one. I agree though, I'd rather not have them, it's just one other thing that goes to crap below certain temps

 

Take it for what it's worth but I upgraded my 22 Zeb Select+ with the Charger 3 damper and noticed a difference. For me it smoothed out the high frequency chatter considerably as well as being quieter. Currently waiting for the new air spring to be back in stock to complete the upgrade.

 

My Manitou elastomer suspension felt a lot better than rigid bikes but that was what I knew at the time. The main problem I had with it was that the elastomers crumbled into pieces way too easily. I had to keep a ziplock bag full of spares in my Camelback for mid ride replacement. Hopefully the materials are more durable this time.

 

I hope you didn't get them mixed up with your gummy snacks.

 

Someone just needs to make a metal 'bushing' to put in place of the butter cups and find out how much difference it makes.

 

I have a Lyrik with them.. and I have a lathe. However, I'm not really convinced that any observations I make would be accepted.

We have grips that are adjustable to attenuate high frequency vibrations, a myriad of other ones with different compounds designed to do the same, tire inserts, and bars that are designed to do so, etc.. so clearly.. there's an existing vibration issue.

 

 

Just think of the same concept as Fasst Co Flex bars. Same thing but built into the fork. Unfortunately, unlike the Flex Bars you cannot get different elastomers to dial in stiffness.

 

Having had those bars and run them for a while, I don't think buttercups come even close to the benefit those bars provide. Those bars are the only thing that completely eliminated hand fatigue and pain for me, but I doubt they mitigate vibration much especially given how much friction is in the pivots and how firm the elastomers are. They do a great job of absorbing larger impacts that would otherwise go to your hands, though. There are trails I completed without stopping due to hand pain for the first time in 5 years after putting those bars on, but running a Lyrik Ultimate...not the same outcome or result.

Most reviews also complained about small bump sensitivity and increased fatigue compared to earlier models, something I would've thought buttercups would help with if the marketing is to be believed. I didn't have issues with small bump sensitivity yet (time will tell), but I can say the level of hand fatigue I had was on par with or slightly more than other forks I've run. That's subject to many factors and I need more time to really conclude how it does, but I don't think it comes close to comparing to the Fasst bars and I am not convinced I see much of an improvement over other forks I've used. It might be better than if they weren't in place on the same fork, though, but the only way to verify would be to replace them with a metal insert.

I found the fork better than I expected based on reviews, maybe buttercups are part of that, I'm just skeptical unless it's solving some other problem specific to their forks that isn't evident until they are removed. I've ridden several new forks in the last few weeks that didn't have them and were comparable (or even better) in feel.

 

Everyone is speculating with most of you not actually having ridden a new RockShox fork yet. I can say that my new ZEB with the buttercups is a huge improvement over the previous generation. Do the buttercups actually do anything? I don't know, but I do know that the small bump is much better and overall the fork is much more controlled. Maybe a combination of everything including the buttercups, or maybe just a combo of the damper and new airspring. Either way, I have been really surprised by the performance of the new fork.

 

Everyone is speculating with most of you not actually having ridden a new RockShox fork yet.

I have a new RockShox fork/Shock and am very pleased at the adjustability and plushness available. Mine does not have the Buttercup inserts.

 

Then it's an older model fork

 

The Buttercups do not come on all the current high end models of RockShox. For example I have the option to add them to my 38mm RockShox ZEB Select+ fork. As it is right now I'm pretty pleased with mine as is. Maybe down the road (at rebuild time) it might be a good upgrade.

 

Ok I see now. The Buttercups only come on the "Ultimate" RockShox series of forks. And like some of those forks are really expensive!!

 

I'm sure in lab testing, they get different readouts with/without.

In real world, who knows.

My hunch is that this is a way to keep forks feeling better longer since people don't like to keep up on lower service.

 

When are we going to see Buttercup tech cross over to coil 'n oil forks? Asking for a friend.

 

So take one word out of everything I posted and run with that... got it. Seems that you may just be angry that your '22 ZEB doesn't have that sweet, sweet GOLD buttercup sticker on the lowers.