[LowEntropy]

Agree with others that this is on UPS, and I think it is BS that insurance should be needed to cover loss while documented, per their system, as on their property. Not sure what it says in their contracts, but it’s worth looking into.

That's not how shipping insurance works.

 

[67King]

I've had UPS damage stuff I couldn't imagine they could damage. And with my old business, they often found ways to damage what we sent. That's why I NEVER ship anything for less than replacement cost. I may sell an item for $150, and insure for $99, as the cost is incremental, but there is no way I'd ship something without insurance.

Packages cost money to ship. Fuel cost, labor cost. Heavier packages cost more to ship, that's why the rates increase. Oversize packages displace more smaller packages, so lost revenue, that's why those cost more to ship. There's a third cost, that is damage/theft. That's not flat, it is variable. If 1% of packages are lost/damaged, then 1% of their value would cover the cost. Well, a $3,000 bike should cost more than a $30 picture frame.

I don't work for UPS, so I don't know how things work with valuable packages, but perhaps their system prioritizes high value goods into areas that have more security. And you can't expect a company to be profitable if it treats every good it touches with the same level of security. Furthermore, warehouses flood, have tornadoes, catch fire. Trucks have accidents and scatter stuff across highways.

So sorry for not being sympathetic, but I think the real caveat here is not against Bike Flights or UPS, but against being too cheap to pay for insurance. It will also ensure that the package is signed for, thereby preventing porch piracy.

 

[brentos]

That's why you need insurance, all UPS knows it's that they received a box, was the content worth $100? $1000?$10000? By buying insurance they are accepting your stated value and agreeing to cover that amount.

I understand that and can’t argue it. I still think it’s BS. It is their own lack of controls that generated the loss, I hope they refunded all shipping charges (cause they didn’t do their job), + whatever minimum coverage there was.

 

[Blkdoutindustries]

I understand that and can’t argue it. I still think it’s BS. It is their own lack of controls that generated the loss, I hope they refunded all shipping charges (cause they didn’t do their job), + whatever minimum coverage there was.

On a lost package as far as I remember they'll reimburse the shipping cost and they have the free insurance up to $100 but that's it

 

[Shawn in da Canyon]

UPS: United Parcel Smashers

 

[Donkeeboy]

If you don’t buy insurance, and your parcel is damaged or lost, there’s only one person to blame.

 

[lefthanded]

Buyer probably knows the UPS driver and used them to get the package somehow, and claims it was never delivered.

I doubt that. UPS drivers make very very good money and they are carefully selected. We aren't talking about another shipper starting with U here.
A UPS driver would be stupid to steal a package. I doubt anybody that stupid makes it in the driver seat at UPS.

Also, how would a buyer in So Cal know a random UPS driver in Utah, their route & schedule and when the seller ships?

 

[ilmfat]

I ain't saying this is what it is...

But a conspiracy of dispatchers, packers, and drivers, even a nationwide one, isn't that far fetched.

And before any stupid user asks for proof of an example:

I was answering a hypothetical with a hypothetical.

No proof required.

 

[chiefsilverback]

Truly sucks for you OP, but I would agree with the others saying “don’t blame BikeFlights”.

Can you file a police report? If the UPS tracking shows the package entering a specific facility and never leaving then isn’t there an argument that UPS is illegally withholding your belongings?

As a more general thought for all of us. If you sell an item with ‘buyer paid’ shipping, then might it be safer to have the buyer actually arrange and pay for the shipping, and just send you the label to stick on the box? That would then make them the shipper, and liable for the cost of a lost package.

 

[lefthanded]

Can you file a police report? If the UPS tracking shows the package entering a specific facility and never leaving then isn’t there an argument that UPS is illegally withholding your belongings?

If the contractor is BikeFlights, why should OP report UPS? Bikeflights is not delivering. OP has no business with UPS in my view.

If you sell an item with ‘buyer paid’ shipping, then might it be safer to have the buyer actually arrange and pay for the shipping, and just send you the label to stick on the box? That would then make them the shipper, and liable for the cost of a lost package.

is that true? Based on what law would that be? I don't know what the law says about the transfer of risk if the seller and buyer have not explicitely agreed up on wether it is at sending or recieving.
I'm not certain that it matters here who hires the shipper.... Are you sure?

 

[Blkdoutindustries]

If the contractor is BikeFlights, why should OP report UPS? Bikeflights is not delivering. OP has no business with UPS in my view.


is that true? Based on what law would that be? I don't know what the law says about the transfer of risk if the seller and buyer have not explicitely agreed up on wether it is at sending or recieving.
I'm not certain that it matters here who hires the shipper.... Are you sure?

Law? Nothing unlawful occurred here, no laws were broken unless you can prove theft, otherwise package is lost, it happens.
Every item I sell is shipped insured for full value for this exact reason and if buyer wants to handle his own shipping since they might have an account, etc that's on them but once item is dropped off and I get a receipt my involvement is done, what happens to it after it's not my problem, my part of the business transaction was fulfilled.

 

[Shawn in da Canyon]

I doubt that. UPS drivers make very very good money and they are carefully selected. We aren't talking about another shipper starting with U here.
A UPS driver would be stupid to steal a package. I doubt anybody that stupid makes it in the driver seat at UPS.

Also, how would a buyer in So Cal know a random UPS driver in Utah, their route & schedule and when the seller ships?

That’s what they used to say about Brinks drivers. But, we know that’s not true. With your line of thinking, doctors would never commit murder. But, guess what? It happens.

 

[Shawn in da Canyon]

Law? Nothing unlawful occurred here, no laws were broken unless you can prove theft, otherwise package is lost, it happens.

A package that big, just doesn’t disappear into thin air. Laws were broken.

 

[Blkdoutindustries]

A package that big, just doesn’t disappear into thin air. Laws were broken.

Perhaps but you would have to prove that, that's all I'm saying

 

[lefthanded]

With your line of thinking, doctors would never commit murder. But, guess what? It happens.

Are you suggesting the police should look for a UPS driver with a doctorate?

 

[Shawn in da Canyon]

Are you suggesting the police should look for a UPS driver with a doctorate?

No, a UPS driver who’s father a doctor.

 

[lefthanded]

Law? Nothing unlawful occurred here, no laws were broken unless you can prove theft

Strong evidence for a probable cause here.

otherwise package is lost, it happens.

You can't just lose a box as a shipper and don't have anything to do with it.
Did the box get evaporated in an traffic accident? Does't sound like. Neither in a fire or something.
It is also not known that the truck was robbed.
UPS's investigation concluded that they don't find the box and don't know where it is. So they are at fault. They can't prove that something happened to the box they are not responsible for. I'd say criminally, they need to defend themselves... they picked up the box, but never delivered. Simply claiming not knowing where the box is, sounds like a very lame attempt of excuse. Wonder how a judge will look at it.

 

[NoCanSurf]

Question for the OP.

Who first brought up going without insurance? The buyer or yourself?

The minute you opt'ed out of the insurance the universe was set against you. I know it sucks and you didn't deserve this, no one really does. Maybe you box will be found behind a machine or something, and it really does suck.

I've had things just fall off the edge of the world with UPS, FedEx and USPS... I could track it to a location, and it would just stop... never to be heard about again. Sucks. Doesn't really make sense.

I've stayed home from work for UPS packages. Had my front door wide open, and was waiting there's like a dog waiting for its owner to come home, just watching Judge Judy reruns... Never shows... UPS driver marked that no-one was home.

I've learn since lazy drivers do this kind of **** all the time.

 

[evdog]

and if buyer wants to handle his own shipping since they might have an account, etc that's on them but once item is dropped off and I get a receipt my involvement is done, what happens to it after it's not my problem, my part of the business transaction was fulfilled.

I'm not sure Paypal or Ebay would see it this way. Maybe you have a business and handle your own payments in which case things might be different....

What happens if something goes wrong with the shipment and the insurance is in the buyer's name? He could file a claim with Paypal and get his purchase price refunded, and then turn around and make an insurance claim as well - and keep that money too. Obviously he's a scammer if he does this. Or maybe insurance denies the claim for xyz reason. You'd have no way of knowing what was going on except what buyer was telling you. And no way to prove anything except that you dropped off a box. You're not UPS's customer because you didn't arrange the shipment or insurance, so they may not even talk to you. All you've got is a shipment receipt. How would you prove to a Paypal or Ebay that buyer received an insurance payment? Maybe you get proof in the end. Companies like Ebay and Paypal are notorious for favoring buyers when it comes to purchase protection even when the seller has proof that he's right. You might be made whole eventually, but it would likely be a huge hassle.

Personally I'd be buying the insurance and shipping the box myself at buyer's expense. Or for something as valuable as a bike, buyer can pick up in person with cash in hand only.

 

[evdog]

And yeah, why are there two threads for this topic (with the same people arguing in both)?