IMO you probably got scammed. Buyer probably knows the UPS driver and used them to get the package somehow, and claims it was never delivered.

The real lesson is to control your transaction, including the purchase of shipping with insurance, as well as taking payment in a way that has some level of protection (PayPal goods and services).

Edit: adding some sympathy which I forgot to include originally lol sucks to hear that you are at a loss for the value of the bike. Scam or unfortunate incident, it doesn’t make it any easier on the wallet.

Though this does beg the question, how were you put on the hook for the transaction amount? I would have pushed back on the buyer for electing to no pay for the insurance.

 

Buyer probably knows the UPS driver and used them to get the package somehow, and claims it was never delivered.

I doubt that. UPS drivers make very very good money and they are carefully selected. We aren't talking about another shipper starting with U here.
A UPS driver would be stupid to steal a package. I doubt anybody that stupid makes it in the driver seat at UPS.

Also, how would a buyer in So Cal know a random UPS driver in Utah, their route & schedule and when the seller ships?

 

It sucks this happened to you. NEVER ship a bike without FULL insurance. I suspect you don’t have a complete understanding of Bikeflights. It’s nothing more than a middleman that happens to have negotiated good pricing with UPS. To suggest a Bikeflights employee could penetrate UPS security and steal your package is a big stretch.

Statistically, given the number of criminals employed in UPS warehouses, it’s much more likely it disappeared there. Or you got scammed by the buyer.

Tobe clear, I have no association with Bikeflights other than being a regular customer.

 

I’ve considered that but the bike was never scanned “ out for delivery” , it disappeared from the warehouse. If the package was removed from the warehouse by other means UPS has security measures that would alert them.

 

Didn’t you get paid before shipping? The buyer chose their shipping option. So, why should you be stuck with the cost. It’s not your fault. You should be paid for the bike and shipping and let the buyer deal with UPS and Bikeflights.

 

Yes I was paid through PayPal but they hold the shipping location responsible for delivery so they refunded the buyer when the bike went missing.

 

No, they don’t. You should do some research on the level of internal theft that occurs in these warehouses (not just UPS). Bikeflights is located in Portland. Are you suggesting a BF employee traveled to SoCal to steal your package? Occam’s razor and all. Again, sucks this happened.

 

If the buyer chose to not purchase insurance and you have evidence that you packaged and dropped off the bike.. then it's their problem.

That said, I always pay for insurance and just lump it into the cost of selling the bike.

edit BikeFlights is only involved securing the shipment, negotiating the rates. You drop the bike off or have it picked up by UPS. BF never touches the shipment.

 

I would also question UPS security. I use to work for a door company that did service in UPS buildings. I use to walk in and out all the time with no security. If I got there between morning or afternoon hours when the drivers are out I would normally walk in and service doors and never see any one from UPS.

 

All it takes is someone to toss it on the truck without scanning it

 

It can’t be removed from the warehouse, it has secondary security measures, per UPS , There are cameras etc. it really takes two people to even carry a box this size. Yes, a conspiracy is possible, I’m just relating that I’ve never had a lost package with UPS to any part of the country until Bikeflights was involved, draw your own conclusions.

 

Allowing the buyer to pick shipping and insurance costs while you're on the hook for a refund if it gets damaged/lost is a dumb move. All carriers lose valuable packages, I am assuming many of them to theft, they just don't care. Lesson learned.

 

The crux here is no insurance was purchased. Therefore, UPS or BF has liability only to the extend of the terms you agreed. Thats what insurance is for. Can you elaborate on how you came to lose money or pay the money back to the buyer? Was this a PayPal transaction?

I would be careful with your blame because you have zero proof of who did what and you may be placing yourself in position of liability.

 

Like to add that bike boxes are easily identified and targets for theft.

I have a friend who is a jeweler. He was sending a watch to a store in NYC. It’s a known street where high end jewelry stores are located. His daughter prepared the shipment and didn’t buy insurance. The package never showed. Theives knew it was likely a Hugh value package and stole it.

 

This is on UPS, not bikeflights.

I've had packages disappear from a UPS warehouse before. It's been awhile, but it happened with an order of computer parts from NewEgg. I missed the delivery driver by a minute or two, and once he started driving away, UPS policy would not let him deliver it to me (I arrived home as he started driving away from my house). So, back to the warehouse my package went. And since this happened on a Friday, I had to wait until the following week. Package never showed up at my house that week. NewEgg sent me a replacement with minimal hassle and they initiated a trace with UPS. UPS made use of their internal security measures and found video footage of the person who stole the package.

Sooooooooo, getting insurance protects everybody in this arrangement. This is one of those things that I always purchase when my item is over whatever minimum value is covered without specific insurance. Even when I'm shipping a gift to someone. It's totally on you here for not requiring the buyer to pay for it (or eating the cost yourself).

Edit: And also my package that got stolen was no small thing. It was a widescreen computer monitor. The box was really obvious what it was. Not as big as a bike box but nobody was hiding it under their coat, either.

 

OP do you have a screenshot of the tracking progress?

I worked at the Phoenix UPS Hub in the late 90’s and every single employee had to go through the front guard shack. Not saying it’s impossible to steal a package, especially a bike box, from the building but not easy as it seems. It would have to have some coordination with multi people at multiple levels.

 

Bike Flights is not a shipper, they are just a broker. They negotiate a price with UPS or Fedex based on their volume. They never touch the bikes. They have no shipping staff.

 

Agree with others that this is on UPS, and I think it is BS that insurance should be needed to cover loss while documented, per their system, as on their property. Not sure what it says in their contracts, but it’s worth looking into.

If it was lost at a more rural/smaller distribution center, security is likely weak. You can walk in and out of many of those all day long.

 

That's why you need insurance, all UPS knows it's that they received a box, was the content worth $100? $1000?$10000? By buying insurance they are accepting your stated value and agreeing to cover that amount.

 

I've had UPS damage stuff I couldn't imagine they could damage. And with my old business, they often found ways to damage what we sent. That's why I NEVER ship anything for less than replacement cost. I may sell an item for $150, and insure for $99, as the cost is incremental, but there is no way I'd ship something without insurance.

Packages cost money to ship. Fuel cost, labor cost. Heavier packages cost more to ship, that's why the rates increase. Oversize packages displace more smaller packages, so lost revenue, that's why those cost more to ship. There's a third cost, that is damage/theft. That's not flat, it is variable. If 1% of packages are lost/damaged, then 1% of their value would cover the cost. Well, a $3,000 bike should cost more than a $30 picture frame.

I don't work for UPS, so I don't know how things work with valuable packages, but perhaps their system prioritizes high value goods into areas that have more security. And you can't expect a company to be profitable if it treats every good it touches with the same level of security. Furthermore, warehouses flood, have tornadoes, catch fire. Trucks have accidents and scatter stuff across highways.

So sorry for not being sympathetic, but I think the real caveat here is not against Bike Flights or UPS, but against being too cheap to pay for insurance. It will also ensure that the package is signed for, thereby preventing porch piracy.

 

UPS: United Parcel Smashers

 

If you don’t buy insurance, and your parcel is damaged or lost, there’s only one person to blame.

 

Picard

 

I ain't saying this is what it is...

But a conspiracy of dispatchers, packers, and drivers, even a nationwide one, isn't that far fetched.

And before any stupid user asks for proof of an example:

I was answering a hypothetical with a hypothetical.

No proof required.

 

Truly sucks for you OP, but I would agree with the others saying “don’t blame BikeFlights”.

Can you file a police report? If the UPS tracking shows the package entering a specific facility and never leaving then isn’t there an argument that UPS is illegally withholding your belongings?

As a more general thought for all of us. If you sell an item with ‘buyer paid’ shipping, then might it be safer to have the buyer actually arrange and pay for the shipping, and just send you the label to stick on the box? That would then make them the shipper, and liable for the cost of a lost package.

 

Can you file a police report? If the UPS tracking shows the package entering a specific facility and never leaving then isn’t there an argument that UPS is illegally withholding your belongings?

If the contractor is BikeFlights, why should OP report UPS? Bikeflights is not delivering. OP has no business with UPS in my view.

If you sell an item with ‘buyer paid’ shipping, then might it be safer to have the buyer actually arrange and pay for the shipping, and just send you the label to stick on the box? That would then make them the shipper, and liable for the cost of a lost package.

is that true? Based on what law would that be? I don't know what the law says about the transfer of risk if the seller and buyer have not explicitely agreed up on wether it is at sending or recieving.
I'm not certain that it matters here who hires the shipper.... Are you sure?

 

If the contractor is BikeFlights, why should OP report UPS? Bikeflights is not delivering. OP has no business with UPS in my view.


is that true? Based on what law would that be? I don't know what the law says about the transfer of risk if the seller and buyer have not explicitely agreed up on wether it is at sending or recieving.
I'm not certain that it matters here who hires the shipper.... Are you sure?

Law? Nothing unlawful occurred here, no laws were broken unless you can prove theft, otherwise package is lost, it happens.
Every item I sell is shipped insured for full value for this exact reason and if buyer wants to handle his own shipping since they might have an account, etc that's on them but once item is dropped off and I get a receipt my involvement is done, what happens to it after it's not my problem, my part of the business transaction was fulfilled.

 

Law? Nothing unlawful occurred here, no laws were broken unless you can prove theft, otherwise package is lost, it happens.

A package that big, just doesn’t disappear into thin air. Laws were broken.

 

A package that big, just doesn’t disappear into thin air. Laws were broken.

Pure conjecture and impossible to prove.

 

Law? Nothing unlawful occurred here, no laws were broken unless you can prove theft

Strong evidence for a probable cause here.

otherwise package is lost, it happens.

You can't just lose a box as a shipper and don't have anything to do with it.
Did the box get evaporated in an traffic accident? Does't sound like. Neither in a fire or something.
It is also not known that the truck was robbed.
UPS's investigation concluded that they don't find the box and don't know where it is. So they are at fault. They can't prove that something happened to the box they are not responsible for. I'd say criminally, they need to defend themselves... they picked up the box, but never delivered. Simply claiming not knowing where the box is, sounds like a very lame attempt of excuse. Wonder how a judge will look at it.

 

Strong evidence for a probable cause here.



You can't just lose a box as a shipper and don't have anything to do with it.
Did the box get evaporated in an traffic accident? Does't sound like. Neither in a fire or something.
It is also not known that the truck was robbed.
UPS's investigation concluded that they don't find the box and don't know where it is. So they are at fault. They can't prove that something happened to the box they are not responsible for. I'd say criminally, they need to defend themselves... they picked up the box, but never delivered. Simply claiming not knowing where the box is, sounds like a very lame attempt of excuse. Wonder how a judge will look at it.

My prediction on the Police response:

 

Question for the OP.

Who first brought up going without insurance? The buyer or yourself?

The minute you opt'ed out of the insurance the universe was set against you. I know it sucks and you didn't deserve this, no one really does. Maybe you box will be found behind a machine or something, and it really does suck.

I've had things just fall off the edge of the world with UPS, FedEx and USPS... I could track it to a location, and it would just stop... never to be heard about again. Sucks. Doesn't really make sense.

I've stayed home from work for UPS packages. Had my front door wide open, and was waiting there's like a dog waiting for its owner to come home, just watching Judge Judy reruns... Never shows... UPS driver marked that no-one was home.

I've learn since lazy drivers do this kind of **** all the time.

 

And yeah, why are there two threads for this topic (with the same people arguing in both)?

 

Content/engagement.

 

This would have been a perfect time to imbed an airtag or Tile tracker.

Most likely scenario was that someone loaded it on to a UPS truck without scanning it out. so last scan was into the warehouse and never shows it leaving. With thousands of packages leaving there everyday, How do you go back and identify this on security footage? More trouble than it's worth im guessing.

By the way. What does Bike flights do anyway? Isn't their whole business model to ship high end bikes? I'm sure they charge a pretty penny too so why is a gaurantee not included? What is the incentive to use them? I could just package the bike myself and go straight to UPS. They should be dealing with this mess. If this is in fact common with this company then maybe you have some legal recourse? Ultimately UPS is responsible for losing the package but how do you prove what was actually in the box?