If the hubs are sealed well enough to keep most grit out, they're also going to keep pretty much all grit that makes it in, in.

In other words, you should be clearer about what you want, and then rephrase the question.

 

Good point, I guess my main concern is having a fairly reliable winter ride that does not require constant hub bearing maintenance/replacement despite being ridden on salty roads, etc. Like, hubs with the equivalent of Cane Creek's Hellbenders or Tune endurance bearings (both made for more "extreme" conditions) if that makes sense.

 

It kind of makes sense.

I lived in New England where the roads were salted and that kind of crap easily made it in.

I rode SS with DT Swiss 18T 350 hubs. When I knew salt and sand were a part of the equation, I would disassemble, clean, and re-grease my hubs. Didn’t take long and they’re still rolling. Going with a high end hub doesn’t absolve you of maintenance, it really just means that doing said maintenance is a lot easier.

 

I ride Chris King for bearing durability alone. I’ve ridden Kings through rain, creeks, mud and snow (not many salty roads thankfully). They hold up extremely well. One caveat: Kings don’t necessarily keep all the water out (as Mikesee mentioned). As a result, the rear hub transmission might freeze (and freewheel) in very cold weather if water is in the hub. It happened to me once. So, once a year (just before winter) I clean the rear hub. It’s an easy process that does not require special tools. However, you will need a special tool to remove the bearings.

 

Kings don’t necessarily keep all the water out (as Mikesee mentioned). As a result, the rear hub transmission might freeze (and freewheel) in very cold weather if water is in the hub. It happened to me once. So, once a year (just before winter) I clean the rear hub. It’s an easy process that does not require special tools.

This is where I stand. A DT star ratchet hub (180, 240, 350, 440, 540) isn't super well sealed. But it's a ~10 minute job to disassemble, clean, regrease, and reassemble them. No tools other than two functioning hands required to do this.

Hope pro 4. Easy to maintain and have never failed on me in 5 years. Both hub bearings and the outboard free hub bearing are stainless steel. I change bearings every 3-4k miles. I ride mostly northeast, lots of water crossings and below freezing rides. Usually it’s frozen jockey wheels or shift cables that get you, not the hub.

New England rider here - trust me hub bearings is the least of your worries when it comes to winter riding. Get DT Swiss 350/240/180 hub easily take apart, clean, assemble is less than 10mins. Your bigger worry on the hub is (salt) corrosion around the spoke holes. Seen way too many hubs get destroyed with cracks around the spoke holes because bike isn't cleaned frequently. Again hub least of your worries - frozen brakes, droppers failing in the cold, freezing shift cables, jockey wheel bearings, and dont get me started on bottom bracket bearings...

Well I'm glad I asked, many interesting bits shared by everyone who's posted so far.

I'm thinking of going DT for the front hub, not sure about the rear hub yet, since I'm leaning toward running SS to simplify things a bit (e.g., no shifter cables, pulleys, etc potentially freezing) and for that configuration a hub's poe matters more. If DT maintenance is ~10 mins (which sounds awesome), how long does a CK or Hope take in comparison?

About hubs cracking at the shell near the holes due to corrosion, is it the different metals (steel spokes, alu shell) or something else that causes/accelerates the damage? Like if I used titanium spokes is that better or worse? Also do y'all clean the hub shells with soapy water or some other solution?

 

Hope pro 4. Easy to maintain and have never failed on me in 5 years. Both hub bearings and the outboard free hub bearing are stainless steel. I change bearings every 3-4k miles.

I ride mostly northeast, lots of water crossings and below freezing rides. Usually it’s frozen jockey wheels or shift cables that get you, not the hub.

 

My hope pro 4’s seem very well sealed off to the outside elements. When I opened them up to service them after 1 year they were pretty clean.

 

New England rider here - trust me hub bearings is the least of your worries when it comes to winter riding. Get DT Swiss 350/240/180 hub easily take apart, clean, assemble is less than 10mins. Your bigger worry on the hub is (salt) corrosion around the spoke holes. Seen way too many hubs get destroyed with cracks around the spoke holes because bike isn't cleaned frequently.

Again hub least of your worries - frozen brakes, droppers failing in the cold, freezing shift cables, jockey wheel bearings, and dont get me started on bottom bracket bearings...

 

DT Swiss. Slush, snow, rain, mud, brine. Easy peasy to clean.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

I've had DT, Hope and King, among some other junk over the years. For me, having 35 POE is enough and prefer black, so YMMV. I like DT best, followed by Hope and then King. All are good for the right rider.

DT are simply reliable and super easy to service. DON'T get the newly redesigned 240s, they're not as reliable anymore. Stick with 350s, they just work and replacement parts are easy to get. Most reliable of the bunch.

Hopes are close to DT, super easy to service, but not quite as bomb proof. But good for most folks and they should go for years. Finding bearings is annoying in the USA, and Enduro bearings don't work in them (tolerances are wrong, they can be sloppy, so best to buy OEM Hope bearings). Most affordable of the bunch.

Kings will last forever, but aren't as reliable day-to-day. Service tools are expensive. DT and Hope will work great until the bearings die, but King might get all fussy on you mid-ride and need a preload adjustment or the previously mentioned frozen-into-a-fixie thing. Longest lasting of the bunch - though DT is close with the exception of having to replace DT bearings vs being able to rebuild King bearings.

I like a quiet hub, so I'm trying some others right now, we'll see how that goes.

 

The issue you mention with 240s is now non-existent. Really painful to see this perpetuated throughout MTBR ad nauseam.

Based on the hubs you mention and the conclusions you have drawn, it is almost impossible to select something other than a DT Swiss 350.

 

I have been riding Kings for years and years and have no issues.
Yes I did break down and buy their tool but a lot of times you don't many tools when doing a quick manintenance
I ride in wet muddy conditions all the time specially in the Spring, Fall and winter. I live in BC.
I did get an Onyx rear hub for my Fat bike.
So far very happy with and it is sooo quiet!
(Which was weird at first.........LOL)

 

I have been riding Kings for years and years and have no issues.
Yes I did break down and buy their tool but a lot of times you don't many tools when doing a quick manintenance
I ride in wet muddy conditions all the time specially in the Spring, Fall and winter. I live in BC.
I did get an Onyx rear hub for my Fat bike.
So far very happy with and it is sooo quiet!
(Which was weird at first.........LOL)

I don't know, call me crazy but having to buy a "special tool" for maintaining a hub is too much.

I used to like CK stuff. Before it was bling. I'm even from (born and raised) in Portland, and have wanted to support them, but the noise and (more importantly) recent design decisions have given me serious pause.

Hard to argue with a DT Swiss ratchet hub. Dead simple, and if running 18T, damn quiet.

 

I’m a bit perplexed by all the pro dt/hope responses. In both those hubs are myriad sealed bearings that can’t be regreased and the new bearings are expensive. I’ve friends that go through dt bearings and freehub every 2 years. Sure they are easy to disassemble but the bearings are expensive.

I had hope hub on my singlespeed and it went through bearings about yearly so I sold those wheels on.

The ck require yearly maintainance, I do it every spring. Takes me 3+ hours for a pair off hubs but it’s a complete cleaning and relube. When I’m done the bearings are so smooth you can’t tell they are turning.

it might be that new England is less about wet riding and more about salt? No salt here in us pnw but rain and clay.

I had my rear get really draggy once, it was when I went >18 months without lubing them.

The ck price is now stratospheric but they are something you can ride for decades in rain and snow without any new parts, or maybe some new bearing seal washers. In that time you’ll have spend many times the dt cost in bearings and freehubs.

Here’s an nsmb article from someone with similar experience up north of me:

NSMB.com - A Chris King RingDrive Hub Experience, Part 1

The legendary Chris King RingDrive rear hub in two parts. First up, a teardown of an ISO B boost hub (and a litany of anecdotes).

nsmb.com

 

I’m a bit perplexed by all the pro dt/hope responses. In both those hubs are myriad sealed bearings that can’t be regreased and the new bearings are expensive.

Sounds like a good reason to service and maintain those bearings instead of replacing them.

 

If you are going to replace the freehub bearing it requires a tool to remove the spline interface and access the bearing...and the tool is known to break frequently while attempting to do this.

To this extent, Hope hubs are much easier to service and pop out/replace bearings.

 

If you are going to replace the freehub bearing it requires a tool to remove the spline interface and access the bearing...and the tool is known to break frequently while attempting to do this.

?? I've only done ~a dozen of these, but I think you might have bad information. There is very little torque required to remove the fixed ratchet.

 

Shimano cup and cone hub with a good marine grease.

 

You can remove three of the four bearings with a stick and a rock in a DT Swiss hub.

The other bearing requires a tool, yes. It is also the most protected and will likely last tens of thousands of miles.

Also, you can easily pick the seal(s) off of any sealed bearing and inject grease.

 

DT Swiss is my choice, and l guess it depends on income\location\availability, but l dont find the bearings expensive at all

all of our MTBs are fitted with DT Swiss for a reason

 

People who complain about replacing bearings available in common sizes often misappropriate the failure to water, when it's really the bearings used in the application. Mountain bike rear hubs endure an extreme amount of side loading. Water will speed the process, yes. But it's going to happen anyway.

King had it right a long time ago with the angular contact bearings. Every hub with radial contact bearings is going to need new bearings eventually, regardless of how well you maintain them. The balls wear and you get play that can't be fixed with more pre-load. Took 4 years to happen with my white industries hub that has never been ridden in soaking wet conditions.
The issue I have with King is that the drive teeth on the drive shell eventually DO wear out and then you're looking at a massively expensive repair to save the hub, which may not be a current "standard" by that time anyway. And you need the tool if you buy a bare drive shell and want to swap your old bearings into it. It's a pain in the ass I'm not going to deal with again. Fixed my WI hub in 10 minutes after the new bearings arrived in my mailbox.

 

For clarity the driveshell is the aluminum tube thing that the cassette or cog bolts onto, with the helical grooves that go inside the hub? My ss hub is a 2003 disc go tech with >>
10000 miles and as far as I can tell it’s fine. What goes wrong on your hub? Is it the helical grooves inside or the outside grooves that support the cassette? Or is it a different part altogether?

I admit I’m frightened of my hub breaking because it looks like it’s been a while since they stopped making compatible internals. I took it in 2 years ago because the preload wouldn’t tighten enough and it came back working like new but they didn’t tell me what they did. Almost twenty years and it’s still like butter. 4th rim. Paid for ck service before latest rim.

seems pretty unbelievable to me how long it’s lasted. Have been through many sets of bearings on many hubs in that time. Hope, another hope, dt350, Legacy i9, xt and sram, sram and more sram (throw away). I’m not even counting the nasty incompetent hubs in the 90s (tnt, pullstar). The ball bearings in the cartridge mostly rust out but sometimes it is packed with silt. Once cleaned with soap and water it might roll better if I replaced the corroded balls with small rocks.

 

38,000 km on the 240s since 2009. I've greased them once. They run like they did the day I bought them.

I do have a separate studded tire wheelset, but they've still seen 1000s of km on salty/slushy winter roads.

 

That’s pretty awesome. For sure it’s slush that kills/infects my bearings faster than anything else. I wonder why your dt last and my 350 didn’t go 2 years? I’ve got 200lb riding weight.

Are our sample sizes too small and this longevity stuff is just random?

 

If your engine is still running, why bother changing the oil?

 

Anyone knows why DT hubs and related parts are sometimes even twice as expensive in the US? I mean I'm all for profit but sometimes it's ridiculous to see 240s go for $400+ in the US and around ~$200 in Germany for example (and don't get me started on price differences between 350 front hubs by continent)...I imagine CK can sometimes be more expensive in Europe but I doubt it'll be twice the US price.

 

maybe exchange rates have something to do with it?

 

B-b-because of the metric system?

 

I'm pretty sure this has something to do with sun spots

 

I bought a set of new 180 EXPs from R2 for around what a single 240 EXP costs here at retail now.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

My experience has been with CK ive had a front and rear, both failed flanges cracked.
Original Hugi hubs with theyre forged hubshells still going. Bearings still good too. Recent modern DT oem hubs (similar to 350) couple bearings went bad after first ride in downpour. Replaced and ok now.
I havent run any Hope hubs yet, have friend who have to good effect. I run their pedals and headsets, whicg are awesome. The pedals have been theough two bikes, never serviced, still smooth!