Bernard Kerr’s prototype frame snapped. I’ve busted wheels and hubs but have never snapped a frame like this. I wonder if it broke at the lugs that Pivots Prototype and Atherton bikes are running.
Bad Day For Pivot And Kerr
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HUKIT
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Compared to the "ATHERTON Bike Build" it looks like Pivot is Over_Engineering
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338 Posts
Throw a few drywall screws in there and we’re good!!!
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Looking at ATHERTON vs PIVOT photos, looks like the cable ports are in different locations. The Pivot has a lot less adhesive area on the down tube and Lub interface. I'm not a mechanic engineer, but I've glued a lot things in my life, maximizing adhesive area it always beneficial for longevity.
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Somehow the engineers will find out a way to blame Kerr. I mean, has an engineer actually ever been wrong?
Actually I think engineers are the most likely to admit and allow for new data that indicates the need for improving a design. It’s the marketing department that would never admit it
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5,061 Posts
What? Marketing is going to have to figure out a way to get them out of this situation. Broken prototype bike. Injured rider. I can't imagine that Pivot hadn't made the call to Pinkbike immediately asking to keep that broken bike off the front pages. If bonded lugs were so great they would have kept making bikes in the mainstream with that same technology after 1999.
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I will point out that Kerr posted a video yesterday looking and claiming to be 100% uninjured.
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Totally. I saw that too.
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What do you do with the rest of the teams bikes now? Pretty big confidence shake...
Parallel tubes are easier to pull out than tubes at an angle no doubt, always thought these pivot prototypes looked suspect, those are poorly designed lugs for fewer operations in the mill.
Raw aluminum on carbon is a big no no too, insta corrosion = de bond
Then you ship it around the world and beat the snot out of it without the "engineers" eyes on it. Pretty negligent prototyping.
Parallel tubes are easier to pull out than tubes at an angle no doubt, always thought these pivot prototypes looked suspect, those are poorly designed lugs for fewer operations in the mill.
Raw aluminum on carbon is a big no no too, insta corrosion = de bond
Then you ship it around the world and beat the snot out of it without the "engineers" eyes on it. Pretty negligent prototyping.
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I'm not speaking about this case in particular, but every single engineer I've known in person has been unwilling to allow that anyone else might have useful information about a problem that could contribute to a solution. They are the lone problem solvers and everyone else must follow their direction to implement their solution.
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Incredible line, bravo…..I can’t wait to troll all the mechs in my life with this one
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Race bikes ride the knife edge of weight to strength ratio. It happens, and it used to happen, and it will probably continue to happen. If you want to win you have to balance on the edge.
That said I recall the era of the thermoplastic frames (GT, mantis, etc) and how they failed due to the inability of the lugs and tubes to bond correctly. But also vitus bikes were able to make tiny aluminum tubes stick to aluminum lugs with small amounts of overlap and they would last for way too long, until the Aluminum was way past its prime.
That said I recall the era of the thermoplastic frames (GT, mantis, etc) and how they failed due to the inability of the lugs and tubes to bond correctly. But also vitus bikes were able to make tiny aluminum tubes stick to aluminum lugs with small amounts of overlap and they would last for way too long, until the Aluminum was way past its prime.
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Here's a side view of the triple where the frame broke. What frame materials are you trusting to mega-case that gap?
I don't know it seems a little dramatic to me. It's a prototype. They're probably not even worried about this. Prototypes are given to racers on purpose to find out their weak points and eliminate them. They'll probably say this is a good thing and proves that they're doing the right thing.
Wow - I wonder how then a group of 10 engineers working on a design project might ever get anything done?
Have you ever heard of a "design review"? I wonder how any "engineer" ever deals with that?
It's stuff I read on here that makes me laugh at how much every person takes for granted in their daily life not knowing sh!tshow that goes on behind the scenes to get there. There needs to be a reality TV show on Netflix or something #engineeringawareness
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529 Posts
One major difference between Pivot and Atherton is the lug to tube interface. Pivot is a single wall connection and Atherton is a double wall connection. Double wall allows twice as much surface area for bonding.
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Pretty much anywhere in a carbon layup that uses an aluminum insert has a layer of fiberglass to isolate it from corrosion. It still happens though. Your dropper is isolated by the anodize until it wears or corrodes and gets stuck.
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