Mass production and standardization of parts - the same thing we (myself included) lament - allow us AMAZING choices as consumers. those goods cost MUCH less than hand-made custom products. But the custom products are still there if you we want to pay the “old” prices.

The same is true of bikes. There are a number of reputable frame builders that will bang you out any 20, 24, 26, 27.5, 29, 32, 36, etc... frame you could ask for. If you’re willing to pay

So are we being cheated? Or is the consumer luxury we once had simply giving way to something else?

Are bike companies evil? Well technically one is but mostly they’re trying to survive in an industry with tight margins. As a manufacturer I know the push/pull between what you’d love to do and what you have to do to make it.

I’ve been buying and selling used for the past two years to get an idea what I want most (dragonslayer arrives Monday) because I am honestly often torn between quick and clickable and monster rollover (ranging in bikes I’ve owned from a stumpy 26er to a surly Krampus 29+) and hopefully there will be a mainstream option that works for me when I hone in on a winning geo. But if not, then it’s custom-made if I can afford it

Wheelsets aren’t going anywhere with major cities getting massive 26er fleets for their bike shares because they’re so much stronger.

 

Mass production and standardization of parts - the same thing we (myself included) lament - allow us AMAZING choices as consumers.

Maybe but the problem is that the industry changes the standards every couple of years so as a consumer , I don't have the choice of buying new stuff.

One example : I got a bike as a commuter 5 years ago , cool bike. The frame broke but it was lifetime warrantied, so now the new bikes are 700 wheeled , boost , thru axle , they couldn't just swap the parts on a new frame , so the company offered me instead a brand new complete bike.
Very cool (in theory) but now I have a bike that I'm unable to put any of my tires , my wheels , my cassettes (11 sp) ..... And I have lots and lots of parts/tires.....
All new standard that forces me to buy new stuff all over again.
(I won't , I'll probably sell it)

Luckily , the 26er standard have been there for so long that there's still a lots of parts available. No such luck with newest frames though....... got to go custom.

 

The case for 'choice' and 'standardization of parts' argument would be valid if 26-er equipment was still made on a large scale, which it isn't....

The question of Boost 148 came up as a reply earlier and there is something to say about that too.

It is true that a wider hub would give a laterally stronger wheel. On paper it would also result in a very slightly less stiff wheel in the vertical direction.
It would also allow for a wider tire.

Now, Boost 148 on a 29" wheel gives about the same spoke angle as 142 spacing on a 26" wheel so it makes sense in terms of keeping the same possibility of stiffness. Increase in tire clearance is barely noticeable.

If we talk SuperBoost at 153 (?) then the gain is bigger in terms of tire clearance. The spoke angle would only increase by 0.5-0.7 deg or so.

This video sheds some light on bike spec evolution.

 

omg, I'd forgotten about that video. That's def how it happened.

Ride what you like, what ya' brung, what you can afford, what ma gave ya'... roll with it and get movin.

 

Quote Originally Posted by Emax View Post
The way they are leaning on racers in the road cycling to use disc brakes is a good example of what I'm talking about here. Discs on a road bike won't make you go faster, but they sure will make servicing your bike a lot harder, and more expensive...


Well it first depends on if the bike frame can handle disk calipers or not. I'm not a big fan of those conversion kits, never tried one but they have very mixed reviews online.

If a bike frame is disc compatible, it's not expensive OR hard to put them on. I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground mechanic-wise and I'm able to put on pre-bled calipers in 10 minutes. Rotor in 3 minutes. They are as cheap as $50/front-back pair, and that's hydraulic. Most of the time it's zero service until the pads wear out, then you spend $10-20 and it takes about 3-5 minutes to take out the pin, slide in the pads, and put the pin in again.

I don't mind different opinions and controversy but hydraulic brakes are relatively cheap, very easy to install/maintain, and are clearly superior to rim brakes. This should not even be an argument.

 

Are there any "non super expensive" options for 26 inch front wheels in 110x15mm?

Seriously there are **** tons of 27er and 29er available even for super cheap so why no 26er? :madman:

I don't need some light stuff, just durable.

Thanks in advance

 

Define "not super expensive" since that will apply differently to different riders.

 

I have a little story about 26 vs. 27.5. I'm saving up to build a 24 lb XC bike. One Chinese carbon frame builder has 27.5 and 26 frames, both modern geometry. That made me wonder if I could save extra weight with 26. It turns out, at least on paper, that I'd only save 1/2 lb with 26" vs. 27.5. And I can always run 26" wheels on a 27.5" anyway, so it's a no-brainer.

 

Well... I remember days when Avid, Truvativ, Sachs, and Sram were all separate companies, I still ride a Titus, and I remember many different names in the bike industry that either vanished, or got bought out by bigger companies - I'm not denying that there are new companies out there, but I still think that the ownership of brands became concentrated. This has many consequences - new products are brought quicker to market, and there is more resources for careful marketing and packaging of said goodies. With all the data available to manufacturers from social media - they can target their product at very specific audiences.

You're absolutely right that it wasn't the big companies that jumped on the 29er band wagon - that it was the small players (though GF was owned by TREK as you said). But the smaller players didn't exactly capitalize on the 29er boom and now they are just along for the ride - big players have taken over the momentum (which is funny because 29ers are all about the momentum). If you go back 10 years Titus was proud of their 96ers even... I get all that. But the change from 26 to 27.5 is not exactly same as going from 26er to 29er... so why do it? It's not like a 26er has square wheels and there is nothing good about it. If you go back 10 years, 29er single speed bikes were the tools of the strongest riders on the trails, because you had to have the skill and strength to pull that off. Now 29ers sport huge range with crazy ratios - just to solve the problem where these bikes were hard to ride up the hill if the rider wasn't strong enough. We could have had 26ers and 29ers on the market with a few makers making 27.5... Look, I'm still close to the industry, and can tell you that new riders never came into the shop asking for a 27.5 - they might have asked about the 29er though. I think that the industry saw an opportunity and took it.

I don't think that manufacturer making a small batch of reasonably priced - let's even say $500 - $700 26er forks would have a problem with selling them, same goes for 3x9 XT level components or any 3x components...

How many people do you see riding on a road bike in a foul weather? Not many on New Jersey roads, and discs are not fool proof - I've had problems with Magura's leaking, pad contamination, bent rotors (yeah that won't be annoying on a road bike)... look - most bike companies these days are owned by investors who are looking for your dollars, gone are the days of passionate bike makers - now it's all market analysis and targeted marketing. On the road there is real opposition to the discs and the companies are pushing for that hard... no one can deny that. In reality, discs are only better in the wet, but even then it is down to the tire and the asphalt... BTW this marketing hoopla is affecting all aspects of our lives.. not just bikes, and with more powerful tools, marketing companies are able to sell us stuff because they sometimes know our habits than we do.

 

How many people do you see riding on a road bike in a foul weather? Not many on New Jersey roads

I can imagine, I'd be scared $hitless to ride New Jersey roads in any weather

Discs are better in any weather, people used to say the same about v-brakes. Face it, you're a curmudgeon.

 

Funny how everyone compares 20 year old 26 with modern/recent 650 or 700 bikes.

I have a custom made Ti bike made to my specs ,26er ,modern geometry.
Perfect. (see answer 571)
Haven't try a 650/700 bike that comes close with handling and accelerating , climbing.

BTW , I'm 6'2''

 

Because the 26" is paid for. I am faster on a 29er though.

 

This thread reminds me of this song....

I'm Faster Than You...IFHT Films

 

Depends on terrain and budget.

Try to buy a nice used FS bike in newer wheel sizes for reasonable $$ ...

I just got a K2 alum frame, carbon swing arm with air on both ends, Deore, Mavic, even a Ti seat post for $100 and a few days work to straighten out. I bought it to convert to a eMTB, but it was/is so nice, I just couldn't do it ... It's my new favorite trail cruiser

I bough a Hardrock Sport (used) to convert. Added a Manitou R7 fork in place of that god awful RST fork and it's a sweet ride too. It'll be even better with a Thudbuster and a mid drive kit

All in for both bikes (not including the conversion kit) I'm in for less than 1 large.

If I spent that same budget on one MTB, I'd not reach my goals (MTB and eMTB) and I'd be one one bike for a long time, for everything ...

Used 26'ers give me options and diversity and fun

 

Try to buy a nice used FS bike in newer wheel sizes for reasonable $$ ...

I just got a K2 alum frame, carbon swing arm with air on both ends, Deore, Mavic, even a Ti seat post for $100 and a few days work to straighten out. I bought it to convert to a eMTB, but it was/is so nice, I just couldn't do it ... It's my new favorite trail cruiser :

Just my opinion, but personally i'd rather have lower end but newer components than old but higher end stuff.
Yeah, Mavic and Deore sounds cool, but how old and how beat up are those components? That technology might have trickled down to the most basic stuff by now.
Air on both ends is cool too, but how good do they work after all these years? Can you still service them and get parts for them? How much more abuse will that old carbon swing arm take?
What about oldschool geometry? What about all the old standards and compatibility? If you want to buy something for the bike, do you have to hunt down old used parts?

Old and cheap stuff has it's charm for sure, but I wouldn't say it's always an alternative to modern stuff. Again just my opinion of course and I probably sound a bit ranty. I worked in a shop where we mainly dealt with old and vintages bikes and i've had a horrible boss that thought every modern component sucked and for him a hydraulic brake was the devil itself. I've heard him say such bulls**t to clueless customers so many times.

 

Agreed 100% If you are cruising and just exploring around; 26 will do most, if not all. It has for decades. If you want to race, or even just to maintain race pace, yeah, you'll have to go bigger or split sizes.

26 semi fat on rear and bigger up front might work out best ... Been that way on MX and Enduro (18~21) motorcycles for a long time

 

Actually I took a couple years off for finances and did a couple trail races this year with the ol 26" steed. This year on 2.23" tires and still got 3rd and 2nd in two of them. Lots of remarks about being old school, but in a tight technical maneuvering trail race I like the second nature of a well practiced setup.

 

I didn't mention the wheelsize on purpose, my comment was about all the other components. Probably off topic. Sorry!

 

26 is good basis for conversion

I get that. But, in my case all the parts were in decent/OK shape. Was owned by a Marin County resident who spent serious bank going weight weenie and then sold it on to one of his buds who let the air run down on the Marzocchi forks and decided it was broke ... So he sold it for $100

I got it home and realized they had reversed the lower shock mounting plate so the rear was all jacked up. A new used Fox shock w/o piggy back boost chamber (the part that created the mounting dilemma) and a reset on the plate with new SS screws and JB Weld under (onto clean slightly abraded carbon/epoxy), and it was sorted.

I emailed the PO owner requesting owners manuals or service guides, and the adapter for the air fork? He wrote back that he did not have any lit, AND did not even know you could pump up the forks ... Needless to say, there was not that much total time on the bike

I'll buy rich posers cast-offs any day. I don't feel bad about it. And yes, you can get seal kits for the fork from Dr Marzocchi in the EU. Fox will recondition any shock sent in so what's to loose ... Carbon stress? Well it has to be ridden for that to be a thing ... Clueless owners are a good thing - for me

Used parts all over eBay. Just gotta know what you are looking for, and try alternate listings and spellings

Once you rescue an older MTB, it can be pressed into general trail riding service, passed on down the line to the next generation, get blinged out as a white-walled cruiser, or converted to an eBike.

26" MTB's are the best choice for all these things as they are tough, have interchangeable parts, can be re-geared easy enough, usually have wide enough rear triangles to accept + tires, etc. Fork swaps are not that tough. Getting a whole package under 30 lbs is doable. Under 25 lbs is spendy, but also doable.

How cush is it to ride along with your buds down the RxR right-of-way with no jarring while they are cussing big sharp rocks and rough ground ... I don't need a 29'er to do that - just decent suspension

That K2 is now my favorite cruiser and play trail rider. The Hardrock Sport is becoming a MTB eBike. My old Trek is still going off road, just not as often now that the K2 is here

Will I get a full carbon 29'er with suspension on both ends, maybe ... I have trails that could demand it (Mt Tamalpias & Mt St Helena). But I'm not convinced that it is needed. If the speed and the jumps are dialed back a bit, it's not a problem until you get to dbl Black Diamond stuff ...

 

I'm a shorter guy, so 26 "fits" me better, not to mention the bikes are paid for, adjusted/tuned to my liking, and I feel like I'm not missing out on anything. Not to mention I prefer to run my guitars through tube amps, and I drive a 6 speed manual car......guess I'm a Luddite, or something

 

hmmm...tube amps!! Love it! I record (bass) with tube amps, but use SS live...sort of like my old 26er is now my commuter/ rec trail bike, and my 29+ gets all beat up. Nothing like having multiple tools!!!

 

Still love my 26

 

Cross-post-warning

I fell in love with my 2005 Komodo when I built it ground-up in 2006. It's began life as a freeride hardtail:

View attachment 1228257

Moved to an even more freeride hardtail:

View attachment 1228258

Then put on a 5lbs diet as a trail bike:

View attachment 1228261

Then to an all mountain shredder:

View attachment 1228262

To a rigid all mountain hardtail:

View attachment 1228264

Finally back to a 5" All Mountain hardtail:

View attachment 1228265

There wasn't any configuration that this bike couldn't do well.

It's been pretty greasy with the freeze and thaw weather. It was finally cold enough to freeze the ground hard. Finally, I could get off the gravel and hit some singletrack again!

I fired up the truck and headed out watching my house disappear through the back glass of my truck...eyeballing my 12 year old Komodo behind me as the exhaust billowed out...stark white into the crisp 20 degree air instantly seeming to freeze completely still, hovering over the road.

The trail head is only 3 miles from my front door...I was there in minutes and on the bike only seconds later.

10 minutes into my ride, tragedy strikes. My saddle falls like a tree in the forest...and I knew it was over.

View attachment 1228269

I rode back to the truck standing the entire way...knowing how much trouble I'm in...my nearly new 135mm rear Hope hub clacking at me reminding me of the planned obsolescence of 135mm dropouts on my 12 year old frame.

My barely broken-in 150mm fork damper swishing as the suspension compresses and rebounds as if it was whispering to me..."my steerer is just 1 1/8" straight."

My 26" tires crunching on the frozen ground crying out to me as if to say..."hey... it's been a good long run & 26 ain't dead yet...but good luck finding a suitable replacement!"

Well my friends...the only thing that could have made this size large Kinesis-built freerided hardtail frame any better would have been offering it in a size XL for people my height, with a seat tube/top tube gusset on top instead of on bottom, and a slightly bigger reach, stack, & head tube.

The very next day, I scored a brand new in box XL Mullet frame that meets all of those desires!!

It's on the way and my old friend has already gone through organ donor surgery.

View attachment 1228270

26 ain't dead!!!

 

I just love my 26" wheels.

Listen, I have had them all. 26 (more than I care to count), 27.5 (1), 29 (probably 5). At 5'8" and a 30" inseam, I am not especially tall - really not tall at all. I have also spent more than I care to think about on bicycles over the years than I care to think about, always chasing the next best thing and whatever riding discipline was en vogue.

As it turns out, I REALLY like single speeding, and I like the way 26" wheels handle FOR ME. I am more financially secure than I have ever been in my life at this point, and can really afford t get myself whatever I'd like if the mood struck, but so far it hasn't. Every time I throw my leg over my bike and go for a ride, I catch myself wondering "well what if I got this thing" or "I wonder if that would make this better"...and then I run up on a rock-strewn, uphill pitch covered in baby heads that I am able to just pick my way up through and keep momentum as I crest it, and that usually silences the chatter. I can't even begin to imagine trying to do that stuff on a 29 or 29+, what with my short legs trying to turn over cranks and all...

Sure, my rigid titanium SS 26"er is a beautiful pile of compromises and standards for the not too distant past, but I love it and it does whatever I ask it to without hesitation.

One day, when I do have to get a new frame I will move to 27.5 for the parts availability, disc brakes, etc...but for now I'm pretty content with what I am rolling.

 

Sure, my rigid titanium SS 26"er is a beautiful pile of compromises and standards for the not too distant past, but I love it and it does whatever I ask it to without hesitation.

I also have a 26er rigid that for a few years was my main ride, and still I'm on it a lot. My SS is a 650b though, for no particular reason than that's how the parts fell together. Your Titanium bike, wow, it looks really nice. I like the little touches of red that you have going on. Or is that purple, that I see centered around the crank-arm bolt? Your bike looks nice, that's for sure.

 

Those chrome bars...nice...

Had a set of old Profiles super similar; I miss those things.

 

They are titanium, made by Defiance Frameworks in Homer, Alaska

 

Rims were usually wider back in the 80s when 26s were the size to have - maybe part of the problems people have had with 26s in modern times has something to do with the ever narrowing of rims down to a typical 17/19mm.

 

Rims were wider (and steel) back in the 50s-60s too when a 28 x 1 1/2er was the size to have.

 

Well, I did try to get the frame warrantied by Jamis...they said they actually still had a few of those 2005 Komodo FX frames in a size large in stock in grey...but the warranty on a Komodo and Kromo were only 5-years b/c of the rowdy nature of the bike.

They did say that if I could find my 12-year-old receipt that they could give me a discount on a new frame.

Either way...I should have been running an inch-or-so longer seatpost. Then it'd still be alive.

They also said that the lifetime warranty on their other hardtails are only good for the lifetime of the frame material.

"Lifetime warranty refers to the materials lifetime. Each material has a fatigue life, the failures you are seeing are the result of fatigue, not from any manufacturing defect. If you need more clarification on this, check out the support section of our website..." etc...

So really...a lifetime warranty never means the lifetime of the components - duh
May or may not mean the life time of the original owner...
Could possibly not cover frame material failure...um...wha?

I get it that they definitely cover defects in construction...but not covering failure of a material they choose to use in the construction of the product seems like a CYA loophole to me. If you don't trust the material to last a lifetime...don't give it a lifetime warranty.



We offer a lifetime warranty!! (Unless you break it.)

No big deal. I'm set either way. I really should consider trying to dig up my 12y.o. receipt and getting a good deal on a Dragonslayer 26+.

 

No big deal. I'm set either way. I really should consider trying to dig up my 12y.o. receipt and getting a good deal on a Dragonslayer 26+.

If that's the way they want to play it (*****ing out on a lifetime warranty) then just make up your own receipt from a now-defunct bike shop.

 

Thats the way all manufactures run a lifetime warranty...people read "Lifetime" and think it's their life, when in fact it what the manufacture thinks is a good lifespan for the frame and it's intended use... usually about 5 years.
SOmetime a great company will honour a warranty outside their specified timeframe, others will be sucktastic on "lifetime".

 

I have created receipts for small things in the past. If all they want is a receipt pretty sure you or someone you know can make that happen.

 

Nah. I'm not gonna lie about it. I bought it from Jenson in 2006. I've got a replacement that will fit me even better coming in 2 days.

I'm good.

 

Found this interesting. DH'r Neko Mulally, who likes to fiddle around with different designs, tried out 27.5 vs 29 several times on a test course and had this to say at the end;

One thing that was reiterated as we debated the potential benefits of one wheel size versus the other was that it was really difficult to tell the difference between the two. Neko said, "I changed rear wheels almost every run and at times would forget which wheel I had on while I was riding. I would rail a turn and think, man this 27.5 wheel turns fast and then realize I had the 29er on." Using the stopwatch confirmed that it doesn't make much of a difference in the conditions he was testing in.