[CannondaleF9]

I have a ‘21 Altitude and a ‘20 instinct, so I am used to smashy-smashy. I tend to seek out every rock to go over, and not around. My SB100 was clearly not smashy enough (I constantly bottomed the travel). So maybe my needs/desires exceed this amount of travel?

I can see that. The '20 instinct is a great bike, I felt like it was too similar to the Altitude so I sold it. One thing to keep in mind is the Element has a little more travel than the SB100, and the Yeti was certainly more of a pure XC bike than a short travel trail rig. I think they made the 115 simply because the 100 wasn't compliant enough for most normal trails.
In my case, I have everything from root strewn tech XC to long flow trails, short handmade networks, and lift service trails all less than an hour from my house. I feel like the Element will fill in the gaps where my Altitude is just too big and burly. If your local trails are all rockier, maybe go for a superlight Instinct build if you're worried about 120 not being enough? Then build the Alti into a do anything downhill machine.

 

[rideit]

The Altitude is set up really burly, dhx coilover, Zeb, Mullet (sometimes) with DH wheels, etc. So that has made the Instinct seem like a whippet! We have a bit of everything in the Tetons, rocky, XC, Enduro, pass laps, bike park, all day rides with many many verts. Plan right now might be to just have all three for a few months while I figure out which I honestly take out the most between the Element or the Instinct. if I do this I will turn the Instinct back into a BC at 155/160. (But still really light).
oh, first world problems!

 

[CannondaleF9]

The Altitude is set up really burly, dhx coilover, Zeb, Mullet (sometimes) with DH wheels, etc. So that has made the Instinct seem like a whippet! We have a bit of everything in the Tetons, rocky, XC, Enduro, pass laps, bike park, all day rides with many many verts. Plan right now might be to just have all three for a few months while I figure out which I honestly take out the most between the Element or the Instinct. if I do this I will turn the Instinct back into a BC at 155/160. (But still really light).
oh, first world problems!

Honestly if I still had my Instinct and had three bikes to test like that, I'd keep the Instinct at 140, as a "happy medium" between the two, just to see where each bike excels. Especially in today's market, it's hard to pass up a new bike if you have a use for it and can afford it.

 

[rideit]

I have the two shocks and rocker arms for the Instinct, so I can mess about. And I would get a piggyback shock for the Element as well.

 

[genny1]

I am not a racer, but own 3 RM bikes, including a 2010 Element and a 2019 Thunderbolt, and am a fan of the brand. The new Element looks great to me.

I wonder how you think RM is approaching its product line. I read this article yesterday about the 2022 Canyon Lux, which comes on the heels of Canyon's "Lux Trail" bike. The article suggests this: "But now that the Lux has its own Trail sibling, both cross-country bikes can focus on racing with short XC-tuned travel, aggressive race geometry, and lighter weight component builds."

RM appears to have chosen to have the Element span both the Lux race and Lux trail lines? Do you the new Element is a bike that can appeal to both XC racers and compete against "downcountry" (apologies) bikes like the Spur? Or will brands like Canyon that are more segmented siphon off XC riders while brands like Transition sitting squarely in the light trail bike space are more attractive to trail riders?

I kinda wonder why RM didn't keep the Element as more pure XC race focused with a gap between it and a 29" light trail offering. But again I am no racer, and the XC race segment probably isn't monolithic in the types of bikes preferred, so maybe RM has found the right balance. Or, just as likely, maybe I am thinking about this all wrong!

 

[SpartyinWI]

Pinkbike has initial ride impressions.

 

[rideit]

Not too many people still ride pure XC bikes around here, I reckon’. Just look at the success of the Optic, Spur, SB115, Trail Pistol, and other bikes in this category. Yes, they are trying to appeal to both segments, with a trend towards aggressive, IMO. I would not be interested if it had a HTA that was any steeper/etc.

 

[genny1]

Not too many people still ride pure XC bikes around here, I reckon’. Just look at the success of the Optic, Spur, SB115, Trail Pistol, and other bikes in this category. Yes, they are trying to appeal to both segments, with a trend towards aggressive, IMO. I would not be interested if it had a HTA that was any steeper/etc.

Makes sense. So do you think they are punting on "pure XC" as too small and leaving it to brands that still make low sales niche bikes especially for that segment? Has the XC race segment moved more into "aggressive XC" bikes so appealing to both the XC and the light trail segments is realistic? I agree that the new Element seems aimed to compete with bikes like the Optic, Spur, SB115, and Trail Pistol, but that seems pretty far from its XC roots, even adjusted for more "modern" geometry.

 

[hankj]

The 2020 A50 Instinct was 0.9 pounds heavier than the C50 FWIW. I'm guessing the Elements would be similar in weight difference.

Do you all think this will be the general rule of thumb for the new Element Alloy compared to Carbon?

I read 5.07lbs for the medium carbon frameset (w/ shock), so about 6lbs for the aluminum?

That seems too light, given that a medium Ripley AF frameset weighs 7.5lbs. I'd bet the new Element in aluminum is 7lbs frame.

It's impressive how light some of the new carbon downcountry/trail bike frames are nowadays, Spur, Stumpy, apparently this new Element. Makes me wonder if in three years we'll be seeing "new beefed up frame to address the flex you all complained about."

In the meantime, if the new Element's
aluminum frame actually ends up being pretty light, seems like a bargain to buy a cheap build, atrip and sell low end part for a couple of hundred bucks, and build with decent parts bin leftovers.

Or maybe even better, in a year or two when the alu 2022's start to hit used market, pick one up cheap and build it up fun.

 

[CannondaleF9]

I changed my reservation from an A50 to a C50, simply because I've never owned a carbon bike before and want to give it a try, and because I am not planning on using this bike for any sort of rock strewn or jump trail; it will be an XC bike that can ride aggressive terrain if need be.
Going from my current "XC" bike, this will have a 2.5* slacker head angle, and a longer chainstay, so in many cases, it will be more capable than my hardtail, but I have no idea how the carbon will behave on a trail.

I think Rocky wanted to make the Element the all-rounder modern XC bike. You can race it, but if you want a race machine, the bigger brands have you covered. This is their "BC Bike Race"/Endurance XC bike. So, it can climb well, but it will feel a little more comfortable descending, at least for those of us used to slacker enduro bikes.

Have there been concerns about frame flex? I'm average weight for my height, but I tend to put a lot of power on the pedals and since I won't have a chance to choose between carbon or alloy once the bikes arrive at my LBS, I hope I didn't make the wrong choice.

 

[hankj]

No frame flex concerns, just that as frames get lighter something has to give, particularly with long bikes like these. It's just remarkable to me how little some of these new "downcountry" bikes frames weigh. Frame dimensions and angles are nearly identical to bikes like the Ibis Ripmo, Sentinel etc, but pounds lighter. A couple of bikes that are currently on the market that fit the same pattern of roughly same shape but much lighter and less travel than typical longer-travel trail/shorter-travel enduro bikes: Spec Stumpy and Ibis Ripley. I've read both criticized here and there as flexy in ways that hurt ride quality.

I'm not predicting this will be the case for the RM Element, just that these frames are getting remarkably light for being big bikes and there's always some issue that arises as new models get old. In the past when I shopped (and bought) the new bike trendy hotness, I'd always be focused on what was new and hot about it. Nowadays for some reason I think as much about what is inevitably going to be not so hot about this bike three years down the road, and how will that propel the next trend?

The new Element it does look great on paper though, I could see myself buying it, and if not definitely something in the category.

I'm also getting to be a bigger proponent of letting a bike be what it is. It's not really fair to ride a Sentinel with a Fox 36 and then expect a 26# downcountry bike with the same shape to have the same rigidity.

And one thing I do see in the new Element's favor rigidity-wise, at least around the bottom bracket, is the BB92 standard. I've had a couple very light carbon bikes with bb92 bottom brackets, and they've transferred power really nicely. It's an annoying bottom bracket standard for a couple of practical reasons, but it's width I think allows engineers to create a stiff platform that can take wide rear tires. Thumbs up to that .....

 

[baldybrucetires]

Excited for this bike to come out!

1) Weight
-Smart thinking from others to see what A50 vs C50 weight differences are on other RM bike models.
-2020 Thunderbolt A50 vs C50: 14.20 -13.28kg = 0.92kg
-2021 Instinct A50 vs C50: 15.3 - 14.15kg = 1.15kg
There were no aluminum Elements years 20 and 21. The tubes are pretty skinny so I'm expecting the weight savings of carbon frame will be <1kg.

2) Pure XC vs Downcountry
Rocky M. doesn't have a UCI cross country team, unlike Trek, Canyon etc. I'm guessing RM doesn't have as much incentive to make a pure XC race bike if they don't have a team to test it or athletes to promote and advertise pure xc bike. Looking at RM website, their athletes are some big Enduro riders, freeride, crankworks, and an XCO athlete who rides BC cup but not a UCI racer. I don't race xc bikes myself. I'm excited for this as a light downcountry bike - ie: easy to pedal on long rides and is fairly capable on steeper trails or enduro-light descents.

3) The Hype (and the price!)
Gosh it's expensive! Talking to my 2 LBS's and all the staff are quite excited for this bike and many had ordered one for themselves.
If you don't listen to Pinkbike podcast I'll summarize a little pearl from episode 81. Bike media veteran RC talks about writing reviews for bikes and that he can really tell a bike is going to be really good the first hour he jumps on it. Henry Quinney, who just put out the PB youtube video on the Element, goes on to say in the podcast that as soon as he rode the Element he knew right away it is going to be an excellent bike.

4) My (new) quiver
I'm going to splurge on a C50 and it will be my downcountry bike and an easy-to-pedal bike for my wife when she bikes with me. I'm banking on the Element to be one that will be great to ride for many years so that helps me swallow the big cost. I'll keep my usual Ripmo AF: which is a riot, heavy, and pretty darn good value!

 

[Muddy-Runs]

I like the changes they did to the geo plus the 120/130mm travel, and i can see this bike as my second short travel trail-climb-long day driving bike, but then i saw the prices vs the builds/parts... these prices are ridiculous, and its getting hard to justify these bikes even if you can afford them.

Its not just RM, other companies doing the same, and as long as people willing to pay these ridiculous prices, this new "trend" wont stop...

 

[CannondaleF9]

I like the changes they did to the geo plus the 120/130mm travel, and i can see this bike as my second short travel trail-climb-long day driving bike, but then i saw the prices vs the builds/parts... these prices are ridiculous, and its getting hard to justify these bikes even if you can afford them.

Its not just RM, other companies doing the same, and as long as people willing to pay these ridiculous prices, this new "trend" wont stop...

While for the most part prices are rising due to parts/frame shortages, and therefore shops need to charge more per bike to make enough money to stay open (Which I am on board with), I think that the Element is a decent value.
I bought my Altitude before the price increase, which was roughly $400, so factoring in the shipping costs, and the pulls of supply and demand, I think the prices make sense.

Yes, they may stop some people from going out and buying bikes, but there simply aren't enough bikes for everyone since every single shop sold out of their entire stock and then some last summer.

 

[Nick_A]

has anyone seen these in a shop yet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CannondaleF9]

has anyone seen these in a shop yet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't expect to see any in person before January. Shipping delays, woo.

 

[Nick_A]

boo…lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[EskimoFriend]

My plan for my C50 is to upgrade wheels (1 alloy set and 1 carbon set), upgrade the dropper, stem, and bars (keep them aluminum), and finally grab a 120mm stepcast. Carbon wheels and the Step-Cast for racing, swap back to the regular 34 and the alloy wheels for off-season or hearty mid-country stuff. Longer days deeper into Pisgah, I'll take my 2020 Instinct C70.

 

[adub1978]

My plan for my C50 is to upgrade wheels (1 alloy set and 1 carbon set), upgrade the dropper, stem, and bars (keep them aluminum), and finally grab a 120mm stepcast. Carbon wheels and the Step-Cast for racing, swap back to the regular 34 and the alloy wheels for off-season or hearty mid-country stuff. Longer days deeper into Pisgah, I'll take my 2020 Instinct C70.

how much will that 120mm step cast change the head angle/bb height, or will you run a lower headset spacer to bring the front end back up?

 

[EskimoFriend]

It'll change about half a degree. Not really planning on changing cups.