What are the turns like where you are washing out?

 

They're usually loose. Not sure if you're familiar with the area. Tahoe loose. Deer Creek, Big Chief. Higher speeds, but friends make it through well, so I know part of it is me. Cant remember if I mentioned, but it's a front wheel issue, not rear.

 

tight apex, fast and immediate w/ high lean? or more GS like for the long hold arc?

edit: sort of thinking my advice might be the same either way - be sure you are getting that bike underneath U and getting that tire on edge so the knobs bite. The 2.6 should be good w/ 35ID (that's what I run), I'm assuming that you have proper pressure and it's not a squirm vs. just not getting side knobs engaged. If you are already doing pronounced bike lean to get tire on edge (and weighting the front) - is there a change you ran out of tread real eastate?

bummer - I know how this can shake confidence.

 

I'm not sure I can completely relate to your turn description. I think I understand so I'll use my terminology lol. Intermediate arc, low to minimal bank, mostly loose (high dessert sand) over some hard.

I'm 170lb rider....probably 175-180 ride weight. Running 17/19 for PSI.

The turns I'm trying to get better at outside foot planted down, pushing the bike into my right leg. Opening the right leg into the turn with my shoulders. I'm not great at it, but those are the thoughts that go through my head. What are the thoughts on the 2.4s?

 

I'm not sure I can completely relate to your turn description.

Yeah, you got it. sorry about crap description...

for simplicity:

*fast whip sudden direction change (tight arc)
*intermediate (med arc)
*sweeper (big arc)

Sound like you got plain ol' regular corner with some looseness.

I run similar pressures at a similar weight. I usually start my DHFs a little higher but with my special brand of neglect, I've been able to competently corner them at lower pressures without issue but I can feel it.

I think the general consensus is that the 2.35-2.5 range of tires are best at pounding the corners aggressively but my personal take is that has a lot to do the related pressures and ensuring the tire doesn't squirm. I'm sure the bigger vol impacts the side to side roll over initiation/rider feedback as well but... just my opinion, you should be able to corner a properly inflated, 2.6 on appropriate rim ID to a competent level.

You might prefer the smaller tire but it shouldn't be a blackNwhite wash-out scenario unless you breaking thru some ingrained muscle memory or bad habit that wasn't revealing itself earlier. All bets off if the tire can't put knobs where you need it but, since I've ridden virtually all sizes of DHFs across variety of rims, and my 2.6 set-up is what I have on two bikes... I don't think there's a some huge no-go zone or massive relearning from normal mainline set-up here.

That said, let's here what others think. I've read some very passioned accounts of tire selection and sizing...but even those are not typically 2.5 vs 2.6.

 

It's partly because a wider contact patch causes the lugs to float instead of dig. The rest is likely because of the wider drift zone between center and shoulder lugs. There's a reason every gravity racer runs 2.3 to 2.5. Last years WC DH champ ran 2.3 on 25mm rims. If you want to rail, you want a contact patch that lets you weight the lugs so they don't float, and a profile round enough to allow for aggressive lean angles without pushing past the sweet spot of your shoulder lugs. You don't have to go 2.3 on 25mm. That's totally uncool these days. Just keep your rims at 30mm and tire width under 2.6 and you'll notice an improvement.

 

I've experienced this in some pretty extreme situations.

One, cross-racing on my "fat" bike with it's 3.5-ish tires. On the grass, holy crap, I had no traction and the cross-bikes were out-cornering me like I was standing still. I did that as an experiment and although I've done some pretty amazing things in gravel races, this was a different game and I was way way out of my league.

Fat-bike again, on hard dirt trails when it started raining. As soon as the trails got wet, the fat-bike was an absolute nightmare, tires slipping everywhere like it was on ice.

Both reasons due to not enough pressure on the tire/knobs due to the tire being too wide.

Yeah, for gravity/all around I run 2.5 front and 2.3 rear. I don't really stray far from that, it's been proven year after year. Diminishing returns start as you make them wider. I was DHing back when we had 2.8 and 3.0 tires for DH. They were not fast and did not handle well. Big tires, like plus-sizes, are for going slow. They help riders with less skill and confidence ride some stuff (at slower speeds), but you can't push them like you can a narrower tire.

 

^^^ totally. Wider is not always better. On loose surfaces it can float and skid across rather than digging in. That said, there's also technique. Putting weight on the front wheel via your hands on the bars in attack position helps a lot, as can leaning the bike into the turn underneath you.

 

Try lower pressures. 17 front may not be the lowest you can go to get traction. Depends on tire tpi, rim hits, terrain and speed.

 

Truly appreciate all the info guys. I’ll report back in a month after some serious riding.

 

Ok. So..... tyre pressure is key. Too much and you will wash out of loose stuff. Not enough and you will get side wall squirm and it will be terrible hitting burms hard.

I suspect that you have pumped to the same pressure as your 2.4's. My gut suggests you are running a tire pressure too high for the tire size. Increase the size = decrease the pressure. As a rule of thumb. Double the volume/halve the pressure.

After that check what type of compound the tyre is. Is it max speed, max terra or max grip?

Max grip has the most grip. max speed has the least. You may have gotten a harder compound that would also explain the skidding out.

 

It's strange that a so little difference make a so bigger difference when riding, but i feel the same... 2.4 vs 2.6...
Sometimes i like better 2.6, sometimes, when i know the trails and i'm going faster, i like 2.4 better.

What i experienced is that 2.6 are more pressure sensitive (little too high and doesnt work well, a little too low and can squirm a bit when going faster in some turns).
But, don't be scared to lower the front 2.6 pressure.
Start gradually without hitting too sharp rocks, or going too fast, but with 2.6 an 35mm rims, you could also go try as low as 12/14 psi on front in some situations.(obviously not bike park high speed bermed turns)

 

The 2.5 to 2.6 DHF doesn't follow the normal sizing. They "plus tired" the 2.6 DHF and it doesn't provide as much traction as a 2.5. Pretty sure the knobs aren't as deep on the 2.6. The 2.6 is for cushion, the 2.5 is for traction - for the DHF.

What I noticed personally on a 2.5 DHF versus a 2.6 XR5 is that the tires behaved a lot different. The 2.5 DHF felt like a tire and behaved like I expected. Worked across a variety of pressures, hooked up like you would expect (it also helps that I have pretty much only rode DHFs).

The XR5 2.6 was super pressure sensitive, anything above 17 psi and it felt bad and I had to keep dropping pressure to get it to "grab", but then it also felt squirmy.

 

What do you guys think about a 2.8 dhf?

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

 

What do you want from it? IMO, 2.8 is a horrible size for that pattern. The DHF was designed for DH racing. The center split lug provides bite as you lean in the corners then you get a pronounced breakaway until the shoulder lugs engage. That breakaway from the "drift zone" shouldn't be too wide or the whole purpose of the tire is compromised. Even in 2.3 the drift zone is pronounced. 2.5 a little more so. For me the 2.5 is the sweet spot for that pattern. Anything wider and you have a stupid big dead zone until the shoulder lugs engage. There's a reason you've never seen a pro gravity racer use the 2.8. If all you want from a 2.8 is to float, and you don't plan on cornering aggressively it might be fine for you? If you just want more traction than a 2.3 to 2.5 and you've already tried softer compounds, try a different pattern. The DHF isn't a traction monster. It's a drift monster. Its purpose in life is to drift corners at high speeds with control and predictability. Braking and climbing traction really weren't a big part of the design.

 

I know part of my front wheel sliding out on turn happens to be...you guessed it! ME! We all have something to work on, but recently switched my tires around. I'm running 35mm ID rims on my Ripmo. I switched from 2.5DHF/2.4Dissector to 2.6/2.6 and I have had my front wheel slide out on me 4 of he last 4 rides. I'm not a bit beat up with the battle wounds and mental road block.

I have read that the knobs on the tires stay the same size and the gap between knobs stays the same when increasing tire width. Is this true? Could this gap be that I'm not rolling the tire enough onto the cornering knobs a partial to what is contributing my slide out? I'm considering at the moment 2.4DHR front and Dissector 2.4 rear. I ride mostly aggressive trail in the Northern California Region. Looking for feedback as why I might be sliding out so much on tires that we know are proven.

Responses other than "ride better" are greatly appreciated lol.

In short, the Maxxis 2.4/2.5 WT tires corner better under harder, fast riding compared to the 2.6 flavor.

I've spent lots of time on both. The 2.6 is better in some other areas though.

Different tools for different jobs.

But, the newer reinforced 2.6 EXO+ hold up to hard, fast cornering better than the non +. They are a good compromise between the 2.5 WTs and the 2.6 non+.