[E30]

12 Speed is Dumb!

I’m sure I am going to ruffle some feathers here but here it goes anyway......

On my last bike, I ran a 28T oval chainring and a 10 speed, 11-42 Deore HG rear. Sure, I took a slight beating on top speed and on the super steep hills, but it was cheap, reliable and shifted amazingly well under power. With only 10 gears and using Shimano’s awesome multirelease, I could grab two gears at a time and run thru the cassette quickly to get to the desired ratio.

On my new build, I bought into the 12-speed crap to avoid obsolescence and to get a bit of a larger sprocket on the back to help my aging knees.

I dislike the look of a pizza on the back wheel and the fact that the jump between 2nd and 1st gear is so large. I ended up with a 10-45 on the rear and another 28t oval chainring. This gives me the same low gears as a 32 front/ 52 rear but allows me to use a medium cage derailleur for additional clearance. I lose a bit of top speed, but this is not an issue for me 99% of the time. Looks way better than the giant pizza too.

What I dislike is that hitting a downhill after a big climb, I have to run thru too many gears to get to ratio I like. 12 is just too many and seems to be unnecessary. The gaps between the gears are too small for me and then the gap to the big ring on the 51 or 52 tooth cassettes is just dumb.

I rented a bike this week in Sedona with a 12 speed XX1 mechanical drivetrain. How do you SRAM fanboys deal with not having multirelease – like Shimano? (MULTI RELEASE | SHIMANO BIKE COMPONENT | SHIMANO BIKE-EU) It takes forever to go thru the cassette for a downhill after a climb. Seems like AXS is the only solution in this case. Honestly, my 10 speed Shimano shifted better than this mess too. (to be fair, I feel the 10-speed shifts better than my XT as well).

My new plan is to get a 10-51 XT cassette and cut the big ring off (have not checked to see if this is possible yet). This gives me an 11 speed, 10-45 that is lighter and can still use my current 12 speed shifters, chain and chainring and driver. Shimano used to make an XTR cassette exactly like this a few years ago. One less gear to have to go thru and the ratios are spaced out a bit better. Seems like E13 has the right idea with some of their cassettes but I am not ready to go there yet.

Have a Happy New Year, y’all!

 

[E30]

"You could always set your derailleur limit to prevent using the 51t... Though I don't see the point."

True but it is the size of the pizza that looks bad to me and might as well lose some weight for free.

"Shimano deore 11 speed cassette and shifter may be what you need?"

True but my AB oval ring only works with 12 speed chains. Can i run a 12 speed chain on an 11 speed Shimano cassette? I actually have a NIB one sitting around with the shifter.

"2010 called and wants you to stop whining"

Fair - I almost put a 12 speed microshift on this bike. Have some 8 speed XT thumbies on my Stumpy and it is really sweet how fast you can go thru the gears.

"Some people are perfectly happy with the range an 11-42 cassette offers."

I almost am but but really need a 44. I actually have a 10-42 Sram XG1195 sitting around that I might try. Supposedly works with Shimano 11 speed shifters and 12 speed chain. (have one sitting around) and is crazy light.

"Apparently, you did not ride in the 80's or 90's."
Started in 1989 - which is why I am such a Curmudgeon!

" If Shimano or Sram made a 9-45t 11 speed group (or even 10-50t 11 speed) with an actual 11 speed chain, I would buy it in a heartbeat."

I agree. I like the ground clearance and looks of my 10-45 setup.

"Two, even without multi-release on my triggers, the action is so much lighter on SRAM as compared to Shimano XT and XTR that I can click off the shifts faster still."

Thats fair. The 12 speed multi-release trigger is a lot harder than the 10 speed Saint on my other bike.

I still feel that 11 speed was peak derailler drivetrain. Kind of like the dumb 10 speed auto's in cars when the 8 speeds are fine.

Thanks for all the responses!

 

[E30]

"
Yep, the Shimano multi release might be faster if I'm decisively shifting up two gears...any other scenario it's for sure faster with an XO1 shifter. The X01 upshift is almost like a button on a game controller. The XT upshift lever literally makes my thumb sore on any decent length ride.

Also, there's a difference between clicking through a lever and the derailleur actually making the shift into the next gear. X01 is faster in that regard too.

E30 said:
My new plan is to get a 10-51 XT cassette and cut the big ring off (have not checked to see if this is possible yet)

I did not notice any speed difference between my XT and the XX1 SRAM. If it works for you, then great.

"I kinda appreciate when someone is so irrationally set in their ways."

When you point a finger at someone, there are three pointing back at yourself.

 

[E30]

Wow, Mr Brady is here.

Mr. Brady? Like Mike Brady from the Brady Bunch? (did I just date myself).

 

[E30]

No ****? Funny. I got it from a friend in AA and it is so true.
You must be old AF as well!

 

[E30]

"I honestly think they could do away with many of the rings and just run the gaps larger between teeth on the ring. I doubt I will ever hit the 9T or 11T. But you sure do have to do a lot of clicking before the downhills and a lot of clicking prior to the up hill. Just gonna take some time getting used to."

That is really my point

 

[E30]

Wait, I have a SRAM 12speed eagle drive-train and can shift at least 2 if not 3 gears sometimes by pressing past the click, am I missing something or have I been abusing the system all these years??

You can go up to the bigger cogs like that but not the smaller ones

 

[E30]

At least this thread has a complaint that I have not personally seen before. Apparently now the aesthetic of a large sprocket is an issue enough to desire a different drivetrain....

I suppose some people prefer the looks of small brake rotors on sports cars too, leverage be damned.

Honestly, yes. I think large wheels are starting to look really dumb on cars. I feel my E30 BMW looked amazing and timeless with its small wheels and rotors. (I mean, they did fade pretty good on the track - but that is another story!) But to your point, the pizza cassette is just one aspect of the lack of appeal of 12 speed for me. Has anyone tried running a 12 speed chain on an 11 speed XT cassette?