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Where did the low-normal/rapid-rise derailleur go?!

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#21 ·
JonathanGennick said:
I get the idea that Shimano's given up on rapid-rise. Maybe not, but I hardly ever see or hear of it anymore. It seems to have gone the way of those brake levers that also shifted gears for you.
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It's not that.
Shadow derailleurs don't lend themselves well to rapid rise. It has to do with how the cable and housing have to connect to the derailleur.

Sram uses a similar cable and housing attachment. Do they have a Low Normal setup available?
 
#23 ·
After 3 years on XT dual-control RR I rode exclusively XO triggers this summer.

Meh.

I guess I'll live with it, not gonna buy enough STI-RR parts to last me the rest of my life...
 
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#27 ·
I can't believe that you RR guys are coming out in the tens of thousands! Scratch that...tens.

caspar said:
I have stocked up on RR rear mechs.
And now Im just waiting for the new Ultegralevel flatbar 10spd shifter , then Im off to 2x10spd RR land , cant wait :)
cheers
Click to expand...
You're in luck! The Ultegra level 10-speed flat bar shifters have been out for years!
The SL-R770 "non series component" shift levers are considered as Ultegra level. Unfortunately, they're expensive! Note that they will not work on the current generation of Dyna-Sys 10-speed stuff, but they'll work with the previous 9-speed derailleurs with 10-speed cassettes as well as all of the 10-speed road stuff. The tech info specifies specific front derailleurs, but I believe you can use mtb derailleurs, but I can't confirm.

Shimano SL-R770 10 SP Flat Bar Shifter at JensonUSA.com

They're hard to find info on Shimano's site, but here's some info from Shimano Austrailia:
Product

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...cs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/SL/EV-SL-R770-2476_v1_m56577569830609221.pdf
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...s/content/cycle/SI/NonSeries/SL_R770/SI-6KL0A-001-ENG_v1_m56577569830683913.pdf
 
#28 ·
Add me to that list! Love the rapid rise.......too bad they will not be making it anymore. Its the only reason why I kept using Shimano over the years.
When I finally upgrade to 10 speed Ill probably go SRAM. Does the same job and is lighter! Here is no reason to stick with Shimano.
Hope Shimano is listening........There is a market for it

Little history for BLASTER1200
Rapid Rise made its first appearance in the 8 Speed models M951 (Circa 1997 or 1998 I believe). In 2003 with the release of the 960 series they only produced the rear derailleur which was rapid rise (M960) and came out with the Dual control shifters (no triggers). That is when people started to really look at SRAM as a serious alternative. SRAM came out with trigger shifters around this time as well....etc etc.... and yes the Dual controls were not very well liked. But as we see choice is always a good thing in the bike industry
 
#29 ·
Why rush to 10spd, nothing fantastic there IMHO, at least not for me to loose RR, so I'm stocking up on RR RDs to last me a few years - FYI CRC has them in stock, so stock up.
ATOMICned said:
Add me to that list! Love the rapid rise.......too bad they will not be making it anymore. Its the only reason why I kept using Shimano over the years.
When I finally upgrade to 10 speed Ill probably go SRAM. Does the same job and is lighter! Here is no reason to stick with Shimano.
Hope Shimano is listening........There is a market for it

Little history for BLASTER1200
Rapid Rise made its first appearance in the 8 Speed models M951 (Circa 1997 or 1998 I believe). In 2003 with the release of the 960 series they only produced the rear derailleur which was rapid rise (M960) and came out with the Dual control shifters (no triggers). That is when people started to really look at SRAM as a serious alternative. SRAM came out with trigger shifters around this time as well....etc etc.... and yes the Dual controls were not very well liked. But as we see choice is always a good thing in the bike industry
Click to expand...
 
#30 ·
How is rapid-rise more intuitive than standard shifting?

Whenever I change chainrings in the front, I use the same finger on my other hand to match gears so my cadence doesnt change. Left thumb in to shift to the big ring, right thumb in a click or two to go down 1-2 gears on the cassette for a smooth transition. Left index finger in to drop to the granny gear, right index in to move the chain to 1-2 cogs smaller out back for a smooth change in cadence.

RR seems like this would be all backwards. Sure you would have to think 'thumbs mean i'm speeding up, index fingers mean I'm slowing down' but that seems more confusing on the bike. At least to me.
 
#31 ·
What's so hard about both thumb levers switch to a harder gear and both triggers shift to an easier gear, pretty natural to me. Using "normal" RDs is confusing and caused me loads of wrong shifts before I moved to RR when I was first starting.

GTscoob said:
How is rapid-rise more intuitive than standard shifting?

RR seems like this would be all backwards. Sure you would have to think 'thumbs mean i'm speeding up, index fingers mean I'm slowing down' but that seems more confusing on the bike. At least to me.
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#32 ·
Yep Thumbs for big gears, fingers for small gears. If you were a noob it would be easy to teach you that skill. If all derailleurs were originally designed RR than we would be saying how crazy High Normal derailleurs are......
 
#33 ·
I'm a noob regarding front derailleurs after running 1x9s and singlespeeds for years and standard derailleurs make more sense for recovery shifting, at least to me. The faster/slower thought process works for y'all since you're used to RR, but I just think standard derailleurs are better for effective recovery shifting and cadence management.

And based on the market research Shimano has done, I'm sure I'm not alone in this regard.
 
#34 ·
High Normal derailleurs may be able to gear into your lower gears faster, but not by much. With the advent of ramps and gates on the cogset rapid rise actually works better (I know this has been discussed a thousand times on these forums) using them to move up and down the cogset thus reducing wear on the chain yada yada yada......(When gears were first made there was no ramps/gates so brute force from the derailleur was used to move the chain) and so it is still with high normal......
 
#35 ·
True story: I found that a RR rear derailleur is more winter-ride resistant, since if (when?) the spring freezes up, I can push it back (i.e. upshift) with my foot without stopping.

Yeah, I really reaching here. Old habits die hard.
 
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#36 ·
GTscoob said:
How is rapid-rise more intuitive than standard shifting?
Click to expand...
I will agree that Rapid-Rise is more intuitive than standard shifters.
I start a lot of beginners into mountain biking, and one of the first things I explain is the shifting. With "normal" shifters, pushing the left thumb lever makes the gears harder, but pushing with the right thumb makes the gears easier. So beginners have difficulties remembering which lever makes the gears easier or harder. And I always hate having to openly say to those with normal shifters, "yeah, it's backwards and confusing."

Since pulling either index finger lever on the Rapid Rise makes the gears easier, it's easier to understand and remember. This is why beginners flocked to and embrace RR.

Overall performance of RR is ok when it's new and working good, but if performance slightly deteriorates, you're screwed on shifts into easier gears in the back, whereas with normal systems, you're essentially pushing it into easier gears. A slight mis-shift into taller gears doesn't cause you to stop going up a hill on standard shifting.

Atomicned, dual control shifters are another issue altogether. I disliked those too. Like RR, conceptually it was a great idea.
 
#37 ·
I don't care that much about rapid rise but I love my dual control. I now have 2 MTBs with it. One XTR one XT, both shift beautifully. It looks like shimano cheaped out a lot in 2012. They used to offer 3 different kinds of brake calipers too. Now they have 1 and stupid adapters....
 
#38 ·
I'm having a hard time figuring out why SRAM and Shimano gave up on rapid rise. I think it makes a ton more sense and actually more functional when shifting. I'm new to the SRAM 10 speed stuff and did my first race yesterday. When I was shifting to go uphill, it took a lot more effort and coordination to scoop 1-2 gears with my thumb. Tapping the front trigger is a much easier (and more coordinated) transition into an uphill.

I've been reading a lot about it, and it seems as though the main gap to retrofitting an XTR RR derailleur is the shifting ratio from 9 speed to 10 speed? I assume changing the derailleur wheels is fairly easy.

Has anyone tried it or have details on the shift ratios that would be needed to make it work?

Better yet, any SRAM or Shimano reps reading this that could knock on someone's door to get this into their production line? I would buy one without hesitation and it seems like there a lot of folks on this chain that would also.

RR FTW!!!!
 
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