Yes.
Like your 2x10?
PAmtbiker
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I mostly ride my 1x10 but the 2x10 is great for most of our riding. I still have a 3x10 XT 10sp but find it's not that great for my riding style (honed on a SS and CX) and trails but when I put a 11-27 on that triple it was awesome. Felt like my 2x10 but that big 44 was fun on fast fireroads with few corners. If I hadn't tried that 11-27 with the XT triple I'd probably have replaced that bike with a 2x10.
For our riding area I don't hesitate to recommend a 2x10 with a 11-36. Less to think about; that triple is like doing Chinese math for many new to the shifting/chainline/efficiency gig.
My next bike will be a 2x10.
For our riding area I don't hesitate to recommend a 2x10 with a 11-36. Less to think about; that triple is like doing Chinese math for many new to the shifting/chainline/efficiency gig.
My next bike will be a 2x10.
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7,636 Posts
Shifting is easy to learn, but hard to master. There's more to shifting than simply find a gear ratio that feels good for how much torque and RPMs you are wanting to put out, especially with FS bikes.
2x10, 1x, or 3x - not one can be considered the best for everyone, but 3x tends to be the most versatile and 1x the least versatile and 2x as a compromise, closer to the 3x's versatility. I currently ride a triple on my FS 29er. Rather than shifting 4 or more gears in the rear when the trail pitches up or down greatly, I shift the front and make fine tune the gear with the rear. Typically, I use the granny for climbing, middle for flats, and big ring for descents, which is fairly intuitive and works well with anti-squat and pedaling efficiency in mind. I'd consider going 2x10 or 1x10 on my FS 29er if it were better optimized for it and I didn't have to ride epic climbs at relatively high elevation. I live in a valley, surrounded by mtn ranges with great trails in them. Even the canyons nearby offer good climbing. After 2 hours, you tend to get really worn, especially if it's hot. While some may think they're badass, making every ride an XC race, where you're on the gas from the start and never let up the attack and make it seem like they lose nothing with a 2x10, I've found having a "bail-out" gear is really nice, allowing you to rest a little on a climb when your body isn't feeling so fresh. Resting towards the end of the long climbs makes the descent a lot safer and more fun to ride without feeling a need to drag brakes most of the way down, with only enough energy to simply hold on, turn the handlebars, and unweight the front for obstacles.
No thinking is really needed. Usually it's simple enough that it becomes more like a subconcious skillset that comes with riding experience. If you've trained yourself to look ahead further than 5 ft in front of your wheel, you can see things coming up that you can pre-emptively plan for. See a hill, attack it to gain momentum to carry speed into it and shift gears as necessary. See a dip with a bunch of rocks on the bottom and relatively short and steep climb out on the other side (ie. dried up creek crossing), create a little bit of speed before pre-emptively shifting into a lower gear and skillfully carry some of that speed through the rocks to help clear the climb.
Try to pay a little more attention to shifting on your next rides to try and get a feel of what different gears offer. Try to shift with a purpose and get into good shifting habits. I bet you will notice a difference and find some gears are lazy and sluggish and some gears are fast and offer speed for barely any more work. Try to mash for a second or two in a big gear to accelerate up to speed with a good effort and then sit and spin in a moderate gear and see how that works for you. Knowledge is power. I'm simply trying to be civilized by sharing the info. No need for superiority complex-induced childish attacks. No need to feign ignorance to try and fit in with the majority, assuming the majority is ignorant, trying to be cool by not trying to act better than others.
My next bike will be one that performs well as a system, preferably excelling on the trails I ride, no matter what drivetrain comes with it. I wouldn't mind if it were a 2x10, but I wouldn't pass over a bike simply because it didn't come with a 2x10 and/or wasn't optimized for it. I don't see any particular reason to be sold on 2x10 that it influences my choices that much. I'd be interested in doing 1x10 on a SB-95, since I hear the Yeti guys do 1x10 on the Front Range and I imagine those mtns are about as tall, with an even higher elevation, as the ones I ride.
2x10, 1x, or 3x - not one can be considered the best for everyone, but 3x tends to be the most versatile and 1x the least versatile and 2x as a compromise, closer to the 3x's versatility. I currently ride a triple on my FS 29er. Rather than shifting 4 or more gears in the rear when the trail pitches up or down greatly, I shift the front and make fine tune the gear with the rear. Typically, I use the granny for climbing, middle for flats, and big ring for descents, which is fairly intuitive and works well with anti-squat and pedaling efficiency in mind. I'd consider going 2x10 or 1x10 on my FS 29er if it were better optimized for it and I didn't have to ride epic climbs at relatively high elevation. I live in a valley, surrounded by mtn ranges with great trails in them. Even the canyons nearby offer good climbing. After 2 hours, you tend to get really worn, especially if it's hot. While some may think they're badass, making every ride an XC race, where you're on the gas from the start and never let up the attack and make it seem like they lose nothing with a 2x10, I've found having a "bail-out" gear is really nice, allowing you to rest a little on a climb when your body isn't feeling so fresh. Resting towards the end of the long climbs makes the descent a lot safer and more fun to ride without feeling a need to drag brakes most of the way down, with only enough energy to simply hold on, turn the handlebars, and unweight the front for obstacles.
No thinking is really needed. Usually it's simple enough that it becomes more like a subconcious skillset that comes with riding experience. If you've trained yourself to look ahead further than 5 ft in front of your wheel, you can see things coming up that you can pre-emptively plan for. See a hill, attack it to gain momentum to carry speed into it and shift gears as necessary. See a dip with a bunch of rocks on the bottom and relatively short and steep climb out on the other side (ie. dried up creek crossing), create a little bit of speed before pre-emptively shifting into a lower gear and skillfully carry some of that speed through the rocks to help clear the climb.
Try to pay a little more attention to shifting on your next rides to try and get a feel of what different gears offer. Try to shift with a purpose and get into good shifting habits. I bet you will notice a difference and find some gears are lazy and sluggish and some gears are fast and offer speed for barely any more work. Try to mash for a second or two in a big gear to accelerate up to speed with a good effort and then sit and spin in a moderate gear and see how that works for you. Knowledge is power. I'm simply trying to be civilized by sharing the info. No need for superiority complex-induced childish attacks. No need to feign ignorance to try and fit in with the majority, assuming the majority is ignorant, trying to be cool by not trying to act better than others.
My next bike will be one that performs well as a system, preferably excelling on the trails I ride, no matter what drivetrain comes with it. I wouldn't mind if it were a 2x10, but I wouldn't pass over a bike simply because it didn't come with a 2x10 and/or wasn't optimized for it. I don't see any particular reason to be sold on 2x10 that it influences my choices that much. I'd be interested in doing 1x10 on a SB-95, since I hear the Yeti guys do 1x10 on the Front Range and I imagine those mtns are about as tall, with an even higher elevation, as the ones I ride.
For my new Karate Monkey build, I went 2x9 with a 26-26 in the front, 12 -34 in the back. From what I saw on the new sram 2x10 , where is the provision for a BASH guard. ? I ride in the MA/ New England area, lots of rocks and trees, and need for a bash guard. I have a polycarb, backspire for the 36, works well. So no 2x10 for me yet.
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266 Posts
having major problems with sram x9 2x10. Chain drops of the big ring on the front frequently. If i adjust the limit to keep it in, shifting suffers dramatically. Is this a design flaw?
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That's apparently an issue with some SRAM 10 speed rear derailleurs not providing enough tension at the cage. It's been noted by numerous others on the drivetrain forum. Better chainrings up front can help, but some have simply upgraded their RDs to fix it.
http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/issues-2x10-chain-drop-669708.html
Andyjensen I just built up a bike with the XT 2x10. 39x26. 11x36 cassette. I do a lot of climbing and I find myself wishing for 1 lower gear during long steep climbs. I do not have this issue with my 3x9. The shifting on the 2x10 is spot on. Longevity should be better on the 2x10 due to less chain cross.
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1,602 Posts
Hmm ... I thought one of the benefits of a SRAM rear derailleur is that it has a stronger spring holding the chain tighter than a Shimano rear derailleur. No?
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No, that's a myth that popped up after a video popped up, on old SRAM vs Shimano rear derailleurs. That vid doesn't show spring tension at the cage (the cage is the part that holds the two pulleys and takes up chain slack and tensions it). The chain doesn't seem to be tamed any better in one vs the other. It only shows the amount of vertical movement in the derailleur body. The video really has no purpose, no theory to try and prove... just SRAM and Shimanos fanboys trying to prove that their choice in brands is better, using simple logic to try and support their case.
The SRAM RDs in this case were probably just "upgraded" from long cage to medium cage SRAM RD. If the medium cage RD has the same spring strength as the long cage, the medium cage will create more tension. Maybe some workers at the assembly plant were sticking in the medium cage springs in some batches of long cage models.
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143 Posts
yes
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7,591 Posts
My quick take...
FWIW, Andy, here are my thoughts.
-The whole point, to me, of any of these systems, is minimizing front shifts. Front derailleurs suck, chainsuck blows, and it's just best to avoid having to shift the front end as much as possible.
-1x10 (or 1x9) rocks, in that you don't need to deal with front shifts at all. There's also the advantage of a bit less weight due to not having a shifter or derailleur, though finding a chain retention system that works well for you can be a bit of a pain. But it can be too tall for really steep stuff for some folks.
-If 1x isn't an option, the first thing to figure out is what the *biggest* (ie, highest) gear you need for your riding is. For me, that's really not much more than a 34x11 (or even 32x11) because I've got a wicked spin and I rarely ride terrain that's straight/smooth/downhill where I'd need more gear (for example, I raced 12 hours of Mesa Verde on a 34x 9 speed and never even used the tallest 2 or 3 gears - and averaged ~15 mph on the course).
-Once you've figured out what your biggest gear should be, pick your big ring (can be middle ring) to be no bigger than that. This will mean that you can stay in the big/middle ring as long as possible in ordinary riding/racing - no front shifts! It also means that when you *do* need to shift down to a granny/small ring, it'll be one shift and done - settling in for a long grind. No constant shifting up/down to be in an ideal gear.
-I'd argue that for many riders on 29ers, the ideal setup is a 3x crank with only 2 rings (22 and 32 or 34 or 36) and a wide range (11-34 or 11-36) cassette. Very few people ride terrain where a 34 or 36 x 11 isn't enough gear, and a 32/34/36x36 is a pretty darn low ratio for climbing, but you'll still have a bailout granny if needed.
-2x specific cranks, IMO, are geared too high. Many people will have trouble staying in a 38/39/40t chainring, and will need to do a lot of shifting at the front end during a ride. Likewise a 26 or 28t ring is probably too low (and the chainline sucks) to stay in most of the time. Bottom line? Lots of front shifts and lots of opportunities for chainsuck, broken chains, difficult shifts, and all the other problems associated with front derailleurs.
Just my take.
-Walt
FWIW, Andy, here are my thoughts.
-The whole point, to me, of any of these systems, is minimizing front shifts. Front derailleurs suck, chainsuck blows, and it's just best to avoid having to shift the front end as much as possible.
-1x10 (or 1x9) rocks, in that you don't need to deal with front shifts at all. There's also the advantage of a bit less weight due to not having a shifter or derailleur, though finding a chain retention system that works well for you can be a bit of a pain. But it can be too tall for really steep stuff for some folks.
-If 1x isn't an option, the first thing to figure out is what the *biggest* (ie, highest) gear you need for your riding is. For me, that's really not much more than a 34x11 (or even 32x11) because I've got a wicked spin and I rarely ride terrain that's straight/smooth/downhill where I'd need more gear (for example, I raced 12 hours of Mesa Verde on a 34x 9 speed and never even used the tallest 2 or 3 gears - and averaged ~15 mph on the course).
-Once you've figured out what your biggest gear should be, pick your big ring (can be middle ring) to be no bigger than that. This will mean that you can stay in the big/middle ring as long as possible in ordinary riding/racing - no front shifts! It also means that when you *do* need to shift down to a granny/small ring, it'll be one shift and done - settling in for a long grind. No constant shifting up/down to be in an ideal gear.
-I'd argue that for many riders on 29ers, the ideal setup is a 3x crank with only 2 rings (22 and 32 or 34 or 36) and a wide range (11-34 or 11-36) cassette. Very few people ride terrain where a 34 or 36 x 11 isn't enough gear, and a 32/34/36x36 is a pretty darn low ratio for climbing, but you'll still have a bailout granny if needed.
-2x specific cranks, IMO, are geared too high. Many people will have trouble staying in a 38/39/40t chainring, and will need to do a lot of shifting at the front end during a ride. Likewise a 26 or 28t ring is probably too low (and the chainline sucks) to stay in most of the time. Bottom line? Lots of front shifts and lots of opportunities for chainsuck, broken chains, difficult shifts, and all the other problems associated with front derailleurs.
Just my take.
-Walt
wait...wut?
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794 Posts
I know these ratios aren't standard but they work great for me., and unmodified bikes are boring..
24" wheel bike - 24/36x16-17
My 26" wheel bikes are geared -
20/32 x 13-40
20/29/38 x 11-39
20/32/44 x 12-38
27.5" wheel bike - 18/30/44 x 11-34 (I am going to go lower on this one with a larger rear cog.)
29" wheel bike - 18/40 is my planned low gear for the redline d440 i'm about to get.
It's definitely easier to shift up if I need to go faster than it is to shift down and realize I am out of gears. :thumbsup:
Thinking about going with a 1x9 setup on one of my 26" wheel bikes. A 28x11-40 will do the trick for a good portion of my riding.
24" wheel bike - 24/36x16-17
My 26" wheel bikes are geared -
20/32 x 13-40
20/29/38 x 11-39
20/32/44 x 12-38
27.5" wheel bike - 18/30/44 x 11-34 (I am going to go lower on this one with a larger rear cog.)
29" wheel bike - 18/40 is my planned low gear for the redline d440 i'm about to get.
It's definitely easier to shift up if I need to go faster than it is to shift down and realize I am out of gears. :thumbsup:
Thinking about going with a 1x9 setup on one of my 26" wheel bikes. A 28x11-40 will do the trick for a good portion of my riding.
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4,675 Posts
Makes perfect sense to me. I ride 28F 11x36 rear 1x9. Works really well for me. I have some tough climbs in 1st gear, but it feels good. On the road I can spin out, but it's a mountain bike so that doesn't happen that often. I do need to get a chain keeper...
I have an El Mariachi complete with SRAM 2x10. Front derailleur is a X7. I cannot seem to get it adjusted to where it doesn't rub on the chain when the rear derailleur is on the extreme high or low cog. Is this normal? Would a front derailleur upgrade help?
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2,700 Posts
I just bought a "Truvativ X9 2x10 AM spider/ring/guard set, GXP - 24/38t" for my fun bike. Been running a 26x39, which I can muscle up climbs, but I think the 24x38 might work well for my 30-31lb 29er bouncy bike. (and my 210lb carcass) I'm also pretty stoked that it includes an integrated bash guard. I've been running a bb-mounted "MRP XCG Guard (BB) Black 40t - SRAM 2x10 only", which is a bash guard + inner chain guide. I like it, but it makes a ticking sound, and it's pretty easy to knock the bash guard out of position and loosen the bb cup.
Morgan
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59 Posts
I think I'm 100% with Walt.
Either 1x9 or 10 for a hardtail for riding when there is not a lot of long, steep climbing.
Or 3x9 with an 11-34 and mostly not using the big ring for my Sultan for long rides with lots of climbing.
Either 1x9 or 10 for a hardtail for riding when there is not a lot of long, steep climbing.
Or 3x9 with an 11-34 and mostly not using the big ring for my Sultan for long rides with lots of climbing.
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700 Posts
Walt has it right.
On my Pivot, I run 32-22 up font and 11-36 in back.
Spinning a 32-11 at 120 MPH = 30 miles per hour. If you are not a spinner, maybe a 34 or a 36 is the ticket.
But 38 and 42 tooth big rings make it hard to stay in the big ring for all but the most heroic riders.
On my Pivot, I run 32-22 up font and 11-36 in back.
Spinning a 32-11 at 120 MPH = 30 miles per hour. If you are not a spinner, maybe a 34 or a 36 is the ticket.
But 38 and 42 tooth big rings make it hard to stay in the big ring for all but the most heroic riders.
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115 Posts
I like mine. The crank is an LX with bash guard.
Todd
Sent via Todd's IPhone using Tapatalk.
Todd
Sent via Todd's IPhone using Tapatalk.
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