What are the major differences when classifying an agressive trail bike vs a true All Mountain rig. Can you list some examples of bikes that fit into each category.
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Agressive Trail Bike vs All Mountain Bike
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oceanminded
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That comparison is a bit extreme. But yes, you could ride most DH tracks on a XC bike, maybe excluding some drops. You could also ride a DH bike on a XC race track. Not that you'd really want to...
I'll give you a comparison that is relevant to this thread;
Show me a trail where one guy enjoys himself on a 6" bike with 67 degree head angle AND nobody on a 5" bike with 69 degree head angle could possibly have fun.
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For a bike, it's marketing. For a rider, it's a style. With the right mindset and skills you can ride any bike anywhere.
Check this out
Check this out
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So you ride your hard tail up a mountain an down the other side, so you ride your xc bike on a chairlift downhill course . So you ride your down hill bike on xc trails. Whatever koolaid you guys are drinking, keep doing it, you may just sit there all day an screem "marketing hype" but fact is fact, a 66 degree enduro, is going to go down hill better than a 69 degree 150mm bike. blah blah blah, get so sick of hearing it. I have tons of friends that keep up with me on their 69-70 degree head angle 120mm xc bikes, but try an race me down hill, it ain't gonna happen. A really good rider can ride anything anywhere, but the right bike, can enhance that riders capabilities to do what he loves better!
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I was talking about full suspension frames. Yeah, with hardtails you can go by fork travel and frame geometry to make the intended usage marketing classification. On-One sure fits the aggresive trail/"AM" class, just like my TransAm.So mine falls into AM? I have On-One 456 (non-summer season) with 150mm Revelation Forks which should be in 66 degree. Nice...
It is all kind of silly, but nice to have some established terminology so you do not have to look over the numbers to guess how a frame would likely behave..
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+1 for truth.
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what can i say. some like Custom Les Pauls, some like Standard Les Pauls. sure you can play the same music on them but...
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My neck-through Ibanez fits me well. Just keep those extra light strings away from me. D'Addario EXL110 Regular Light 10-46 is about right.
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Here is my question then as it relates to my original thread. Are some of the burly AM bikes out there an overkill or too much bike for your typical singletrack, fireroad, occasional rock garden, stepdown or 2-3ft drop. I know there will always be the exception for the "secret" local trails that require a true AM bike but for the average trail rider wouldn't an agressive trailbike fit the bill. I love the look and specs of a bike like the Pivot Firebird or the Banshee Rune but unless your riding the type of terrain that these bikes were designed for then it seems to be a overkill. I'm sure this type of marketing hype topic has been discussed before.
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Depends....
do you ride the trail, or do you look for every opportunity for a little air, or to fly over a rock-garden as opposed to pick your way through it?
If the latter, and you are not a flyweight then go for the bigger bike. I ride a Knolly Delirium ( Heavy AM / Light Freeride ) as my one and only, and I live in SW Ontario. Not someplace known for it's rough terrain - think great lakes floodplain. Most trails are pretty much pure XC in an out of ravines etc. I hit everything I can to up the fun factor on the downs. I also get the the lift access stuff as often as possible....
michael
do you ride the trail, or do you look for every opportunity for a little air, or to fly over a rock-garden as opposed to pick your way through it?
If the latter, and you are not a flyweight then go for the bigger bike. I ride a Knolly Delirium ( Heavy AM / Light Freeride ) as my one and only, and I live in SW Ontario. Not someplace known for it's rough terrain - think great lakes floodplain. Most trails are pretty much pure XC in an out of ravines etc. I hit everything I can to up the fun factor on the downs. I also get the the lift access stuff as often as possible....
michael
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D@mn, you guys are harsh.
For: oceanminded,
Aggressive trail = slacker & tougher than your average trail bike; pedaling over compliance & big hits.
AM bike = much slacker, tougher, longer travel and more progressive suspension than an average trail bike; compliance & big hit over pedaling.
But there is plenty of bleed-over from bike company to bike company as there is no "standard" (hence the whining above)
Aggressive Trail = Banshee Spitfire
AM = Banshee Run
Differences just marketing? um. no.
Aggressive Trail = Specialized Stumpjumper EVO
AM = Specialized Enduro
Differences just marketing? no.
It's funny that everyone that has posted in this thread, frets over every part they put on their bike... then posts up as if they would pick out any frame to ride as it "is just marketing"
oceanminded, inform us what you want to do on a bike, terrain your ride etc. and you'll get better answers. Bike categories have been butchered by different companies so you can't really ask trail or AM or you get the Mountain Dew smashed against the head reaction above.
P
For: oceanminded,
Aggressive trail = slacker & tougher than your average trail bike; pedaling over compliance & big hits.
AM bike = much slacker, tougher, longer travel and more progressive suspension than an average trail bike; compliance & big hit over pedaling.
But there is plenty of bleed-over from bike company to bike company as there is no "standard" (hence the whining above)
Aggressive Trail = Banshee Spitfire
AM = Banshee Run
Differences just marketing? um. no.
Aggressive Trail = Specialized Stumpjumper EVO
AM = Specialized Enduro
Differences just marketing? no.
It's funny that everyone that has posted in this thread, frets over every part they put on their bike... then posts up as if they would pick out any frame to ride as it "is just marketing"
oceanminded, inform us what you want to do on a bike, terrain your ride etc. and you'll get better answers. Bike categories have been butchered by different companies so you can't really ask trail or AM or you get the Mountain Dew smashed against the head reaction above.
P
Wrong tool for the job but amazing anyway.
We call that XC around these parts.
Unless you're doing big, like 4+ foot drops or doing TRUE downhill courses, it's "trail bike" territory.
Whether it's All Mountain or Trail riding seems to depend more on caffeine content and spoke sniffing than anything else.
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...and that was the point. If you just ride the XC and don't look for the big stuff, then the lighter bike will do. If you are looking for the drops, jumps, sketchy gnar chutes and doing the lifts, then go for the bigger bike. Even XC trails that have elevation changes do have some stuff to play on, ya just gotta go over the boulder in the corner not around it etc. As well does the OP ride any urban, you know, stairs, loading docks, structural elements etc.... it all adds up and you have to look at the big picture.
...and yes even though I live and ride in XC territory, I do not consider a 4 foot drop big and I hit the lifts every chance I can get. But then again I have been breaking bikes for 30+ years, so I maybe the odd duck.
your mileage may vary
michael
...and yes even though I live and ride in XC territory, I do not consider a 4 foot drop big and I hit the lifts every chance I can get. But then again I have been breaking bikes for 30+ years, so I maybe the odd duck.
your mileage may vary
michael
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Fun part is that a burly FR bike nowadays is lighter and easier to ride then some XC bikes that I still remember. Steel rigid, cantis..
I often ride a 150mm/160mm coil suspended bike that I could probably launch off a cliff. At ~35lb I do not mind it on some long "XC" climbs at all. Works just fine.
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All trail bikes are over built to withstand abuse, try to see if there's any Pivot demo near you and give one a rip. What bike are you riding now, it may be the best way to determine what bike would fit your style better.
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You're reading too much into it. I mean it's just marketing from the ad copy perspective, when companies push a particular type of bike with the hogwash of you (the consumer whores) need this type of bike to ride this sort of stuff or you'll die! Sort of marketing junk.
Of course the bikes are different in terms of design and intent, but that doesn't mean you have to have a particular bike to ride a particular trail or way.
My only point was find the fit and geometry that works for you, (not you, but you know what I mean) whatever it is (AM/FR/pogo stick/unicycle/whatever) and don't buy a bike based upon just the ad copy. Don't buy into "you have to have x amount of travel and a head angle of y to be able to ride this particular way" is all I mean.
Hell, the differences in AM and "aggressive trail" on paper they may be different, but I'm going to ride them on the same trails, in the same way, and so are most other people.
Pedal you DH sled on some XC trails, your DJ bike on some XC trails, your xc bike on some nasty DH stuff, your AM or whatever bike wherever the hell you want. It's all just riding bikes.
Of course the bikes are different in terms of design and intent, but that doesn't mean you have to have a particular bike to ride a particular trail or way.
My only point was find the fit and geometry that works for you, (not you, but you know what I mean) whatever it is (AM/FR/pogo stick/unicycle/whatever) and don't buy a bike based upon just the ad copy. Don't buy into "you have to have x amount of travel and a head angle of y to be able to ride this particular way" is all I mean.
Hell, the differences in AM and "aggressive trail" on paper they may be different, but I'm going to ride them on the same trails, in the same way, and so are most other people.
Pedal you DH sled on some XC trails, your DJ bike on some XC trails, your xc bike on some nasty DH stuff, your AM or whatever bike wherever the hell you want. It's all just riding bikes.
D@mn, you guys are harsh.
For: oceanminded,
Aggressive trail = slacker & tougher than your average trail bike; pedaling over compliance & big hits.
AM bike = much slacker, tougher, longer travel and more progressive suspension than an average trail bike; compliance & big hit over pedaling.
But there is plenty of bleed-over from bike company to bike company as there is no "standard" (hence the whining above)
Aggressive Trail = Banshee Spitfire
AM = Banshee Run
Differences just marketing? um. no.
Aggressive Trail = Specialized Stumpjumper EVO
AM = Specialized Enduro
Differences just marketing? no.
It's funny that everyone that has posted in this thread, frets over every part they put on their bike... then posts up as if they would pick out any frame to ride as it "is just marketing"
oceanminded, inform us what you want to do on a bike, terrain your ride etc. and you'll get better answers. Bike categories have been butchered by different companies so you can't really ask trail or AM or you get the Mountain Dew smashed against the head reaction above.
P
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