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Can I fix a broken lockout myself?

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SWriverstone

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I've got a Fox F29-RP32 fork on my GF HiFi Pro with a busted lockout. The fork still works fine, I just can't lock it out.

Is this possible to fix myself without being a mechanical wizard? Or am I asking for trouble if I've never disassembled one of these forks before?

The fork probably needs general maintenance anyway (never been done since I bought the bike in 2009)...though other than the disfunctional lockout I haven't noticed anything wrong with it.

I think there is pretty detailed technical info on these forks on Fox's website, isn't there? Are there any other step-by-step how-to's for working on these?

Thanks,
Scott

PS - I know there are people I could just send the fork off to for service...but I'm on a tight budget and can't afford that right now...so if I can't do it myself, I'll just leave it alone. I don't have to have the lockout...but it's a "nice to have."
 
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#2 ·
I've never owned a Fox Fork, but with the Rock Shox, Manitou, and Marz forks I've owned, lockout not working is most likely a sign of low oil in the damper.
 
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#4 ·
Not to change the subject, but of all forks Foxs are probably the most needy about regular cleaning and oil changes/refills. Do at least some sort of basic maintenance before low oil levels cause the bushings to wear away the stanchion coating (if it hasn't already started). This too is easily done at home with beer(s), there are lots of affordable oil alternatives. Check out Fox's documentation and search around on this forum for info. The alternative is having to spend a couple hundred bucks before too long to replace the uppers.
 
#5 ·
Unfortunately Fox does not make a F29-RP32.
They do make an F29 AND an RP23. The RP23 being a rear shock and the F29 the front fork.

If it the F29, check the oil lever. Oil level charts can be found on Fox's website.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
the-one1 said:
Unfortunately Fox does not make a F29-RP32.
They do make an F29 AND an RP23. The RP23 being a rear shock and the F29 the front fork.

If it the F29, check the oil lever. Oil level charts can be found on Fox's website.
Click to expand...
Actually, my fork DOES have both of those labels on it-one side says "F29" and the other side says "RP32" (honestly!)...not sure what that means? (Maybe Fox couldn't remember which one this was? LOL)

Uh-oh...you guys have me worried now, LOL. I better plan some maintenance on those forks...

Scott
 
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#7 ·
SWriverstone said:
The fork probably needs general maintenance anyway (never been done since I bought the bike in 2009)...though other than the disfunctional lockout I haven't noticed anything wrong with it.
Click to expand...
Oh my goodness :nonod:. Maintenance is done before anything is wrong, to keep something from going wrong. Fox forks need maintenance, just like any high performance fork. The manual states a complete oil change at 100 hours of use or once a year. In reality, the oil should be changed at a maximum of 50 hours of use. It still boggles my mind how people just completely neglect such an important and expensive piece of equipment.

Fox seals aren't designed to keep all the oil in the lowers, so as they're used the oil level will slowly drop. Since is a problem since not only is your oil volume dropping, but it's also letting dirt in, and there's less oil to suspend the dirt in.

Anyway, there's a good chance you've exhausted the oil on the damper side to the point there's not enough for the lockout to work. You need to pull the lowers off the fork and inspect and clean everything. Especially look for wear on your stanchions where the top bushings sit (see picture below). If they're worn, they should be replaced (costs about $200 if done yourself). If they're fine, consider yourself extremely lucky. Assuming they're ok, drain any oil in the damper, service your air spring, install Enduro seals (www.enduroforkseals.com), and reassemble the fork.

Image
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Thanks bad mechanic. Guess I'll definitely be pulling the lowers off soon. Can you (or anyone else) explain why rubbed-off coating = mandatory new stanchions? Just curious. I mean, if the coating is alreadyvrubbed off, the forks still seem to function fine---will the missing coating cause everything to get exponentially worse quickly?

Scott

PS - BTW, my LBS kinda sucks...because I took the bike in (for something else) after the lockout stopped working and asked them to look at it...and they said "We can't fix it" and never said a word about oil being low...WTF? Sounds like this ought to be common knowledge...
 
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#9 ·
The stanchions are made of aluminum, and is, by itself, very soft. To allow them to hold up to wear of the bushing sliding on it, they are hard anodized. The hard anodization is the gold coating you see. If you wear through that layer, then the bushings start wearing on the soft aluminum underneath, and you'll start losing material off the stanchion. Considering the stanchion wall is only roughly 1.5mm thick, think about how little you can lose before the stanchion is compromised structurally. Consider how bad a stanchion failure can be, you don't want to gamble.

Unfortunately, a lot of shops choose not to educate themselves on suspension beyond the most basic of maintenance.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

Hopefully I haven't already done the damage...but if I have, oh well—live and learn. I was stupid for ignoring the forks for so long (I'm not habitually bad at maintenance in general...I just kinda procrastinated on these forever, LOL)

I guess I'll go ahead and order a Fox seal kit just in case...though my current seals appear perfectly fine (and I've noticed no leaking or anything else), but for $20 new seals are probably good insurance.

Scott

EDIT: Forgot to mention...was reading in some other forum that some people question whether Enduro seals are better? Something about the Enduro seals lasting longer but requiring more external maintenance/oiling...while Fox seals are (to an extent) "self-oiling" (so require minimal external maintenance) but don't last quite as long...what do you think bad_mechanic?
 
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Discussion starter · #11 ·
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

I've been digging around and discovered a few things...

First, many people seem to think stanchion wear on Fox forks is due to a flawed design-apparently way too little oil in the left (air) leg so almost none gets up to the bushings even when levels are correct. Because of this, some people store their bikes upside-down just so oil will get to the bushings.

Word is that only Fox forks suffer from stanchion wear, and it's far less common with other forks. (Don't know if that's true-just anecdotally.)

I've also read where many folks just kept riding (and doing virtually no maintenance) for a few years after they became aware of stanchion wear. No problems, other than there being more play in the fork over time (but the forks still work fine). Not saying anyone should do this...rather that anecdotal evidence is that stanchion wear is by no means instantly catastrophic and (if wear is discovered) there's no reason to run out and spend $200 to replace them right away.

Aside from storing the bike upside-down, many people drizzle a little fork oil on the stanchions before every ride, cycle the forks a few times, then ride. Makes sense...though still others say this won't work for getting oil to the bushing...

Scott
 
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#12 ·
SWriverstone said:
I've been digging around and discovered a few things...

First, many people seem to think stanchion wear on Fox forks is due to a flawed design-apparently way too little oil in the left (air) leg so almost none gets up to the bushings even when levels are correct. Because of this, some people store their bikes upside-down just so oil will get to the bushings.

Word is that only Fox forks suffer from stanchion wear, and it's far less common with other forks. (Don't know if that's true-just anecdotally.)

I've also read where many folks just kept riding (and doing virtually no maintenance) for a few years after they became aware of stanchion wear. No problems, other than there being more play in the fork over time (but the forks still work fine). Not saying anyone should do this...rather that anecdotal evidence is that stanchion wear is by no means instantly catastrophic and (if wear is discovered) there's no reason to run out and spend $200 to replace them right away.

Aside from storing the bike upside-down, many people drizzle a little fork oil on the stanchions before every ride, cycle the forks a few times, then ride. Makes sense...though still others say this won't work for getting oil to the bushing...

Scott
Click to expand...
Hmmm? So you're finding contradicting claims on the internet? That's odd.
 
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Discussion starter · #13 ·
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#14 ·
Oh boy, a lot to cover here...

1. Stanchion wear isn't instantly catastrophic, but the aluminum substrate wears much more quickly, there isn't much margin for wear, and it's not in a location where it can be inspected easily. Considering how bad having a stanchion break on you is (image having the fork snap on a fast, rocky downhill), not replacing them is playing with fire.

2. Seals should not be "self oiling", otherwise they're not really sealing, are they? Enduro seals work better than Fox seals because they use a dedicate wiper and a dedicated oil seal, unlike Fox's all-in-one design. It's not just a question of longevity, but that Enduros do a much better job of keeping the oil in and the dirt out.

3. The current generation of Enduro seals do not require any addition maintenance or oiling. The older ones required a break in period, the new generation (introduced over a year ago) work smoothly out of the box. Be sure to order them from www.enduroforkseals.com to ensure you get the latest generation.

4. It's not because there's not enough oil in the left leg, since I've seen worn stanchions on both sides. It's ultimately because the forks are not serviced often enough. A fork which always has clean oil and good seals will not wear its stanchions.

5. I've seen other forks with stanchion wear, always from neglected maintenance or a seal failure. However, you tend to see it with Foxes more, in my opinion because of their greatly inferior seal design.

6. Don't put oil on your stanchions. It will only attract dirt and cause problems.

7. Storing the fork upside down is a good idea since it will keep the seal oiled and the foam ring saturated. Turning the fork upside down before a ride is another good idea. However, all you're ultimately doing is making sure the fork is oiled for the first several hundred yards of trail, as the oil is quickly pumped up to the top bushing from the fork cycling.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Thanks again bad_mechanic! :thumbsup: In spite of my lameness with fork maintenance to date, I plan to rectify it ASAP.

And good additional info on the Enduro seals—I'll buy a pair.

Scott
 
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Discussion starter · #19 ·
Alright! Pulled my Fox F29 apart yesterday, cleaned everything, replaced the seals with Enduro seals, topped it off with Fox 10wt (in the correct amounts, of course)...and best of all, NO STANCHION WEAR OR DAMAGE! :thumbsup: (I was holding my breath when I pulled the lowers off.)

After 2 years, there was still some oil left in both legs...but not much.

For anyone else contemplating doing this, it was my first time, and it wasn't bad at all. Took me 2-3 hours just because I was being super-slow, anal and careful. Next time it'll go a lot faster.

More good news: my lockout works flawlessly now! I think it didn't work before for 2 reasons: first, oil was way low...and second, whoever took apart the controls on top of the damper leg didn't properly align the low-speed rebound ring (I think that's what it is?)...the one with the 8 small divots underneath on one side and the groove on the other.

So my fork is like new now, lockout and all! :D

The frustrating thing though is that I wasn't careful enough when I pulled the fork off the bike...and basically forgot how the headset pieces go back together.

It's a Cane Creek ZeroStack 2 headset, and I found a schematic online showing how everything goes. I think I got everything back together correctly...but there was still play in the headset (and I felt like I had the top cap bolt tight enough—didn't want to crank on it any more).

So I think something's not right in the headset...hopefully it's an easy fix!

Scott

PS - I didn't do any detailed maintenance on the damper...just because it looked pristine and I didn't have the time to go there—next time. (This is a 2009 F29, so it's pre-FIT damper...)
 
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