Question to Crossmax SL disc wheels owners

Arek · Mar 25, 2005

I just got a new set of these, they were OEM on a Spec. Epic S-Works, and I guess the owner put a different set on the bike.
Everything came brand new, and it seemed like I received everything that should come with them.
I proceeded to change over the wheels with the bike on work stand. But after putting on a cassette, and installing the rear wheel on my bike, I noticed that no matter which cog I was in, the chain was behaving and making sounds like it constantly was caught "in between" gears, wanting to skip. It seemed weird, as a minute earlier when I had my old wheel on (with the same cassette), everything was spinning smoothly, so it couldn't have been my rear derailleur out of tune all of a sudden.
I opened the plastic bag with instructions, and noticed that one of the drawings showed something they called "chain disc", a sort of (plastic I would assume?) a ring that installed on the free hub body before the cassette went on. I definitely am missing this piece. What exactly is its' purpose? Is the fact I don't have it the cause for the weird shifting I'm experiencing?

Help!

Arek

Lemonhead · Mar 25, 2005

I'm almost positive that the "chain disc" you're referring to is the black plastic saucer that comes with Mavic's wheelsets. It's to prevent the chain from falling into spokes and damaging them. My Ksyriums had one and I took it off. You don't need it, and frankly, I think it's ugly.

Any shifting problems you might have may be caused by a slight change in the wheel's spacing. You can try fixing that by turning the barrel adjuster on rear derailleur. If not, then try the limiters.

Arek · Mar 25, 2005

Lemonhead said:
I'm almost positive that the "chain disc" you're referring to is the black plastic saucer that comes with Mavic's wheelsets. It's to prevent the chain from falling into spokes and damaging them. My Ksyriums had one and I took it off. You don't need it, and frankly, I think it's ugly.

Any shifting problems you might have may be caused by a slight change in the wheel's spacing. You can try fixing that by turning the barrel adjuster on rear derailleur. If not, then try the limiters.

OK, thanks! I was afraid that maybe I have some spacing issues caused by the absence of that plastic disc. Now that I think about it, what you're saying makes sense - there coould be a few milimiters difference in spacing between two wheels, and that's probably causing the shifting problems.

Arek

Grumpy · Mar 26, 2005

Arek said:
I just got a new set of these, they were OEM on a Spec. Epic S-Works, and I guess the owner put a different set on the bike.
Everything came brand new, and it seemed like I received everything that should come with them.
I proceeded to change over the wheels with the bike on work stand. But after putting on a cassette, and installing the rear wheel on my bike, I noticed that no matter which cog I was in, the chain was behaving and making sounds like it constantly was caught "in between" gears, wanting to skip. It seemed weird, as a minute earlier when I had my old wheel on (with the same cassette), everything was spinning smoothly, so it couldn't have been my rear derailleur out of tune all of a sudden.
I opened the plastic bag with instructions, and noticed that one of the drawings showed something they called "chain disc", a sort of (plastic I would assume?) a ring that installed on the free hub body before the cassette went on. I definitely am missing this piece. What exactly is its' purpose? Is the fact I don't have it the cause for the weird shifting I'm experiencing?

Help!

Arek

My Crossmax's came with a spacer (metal) that must be used with a 9 speed cassette (the free-hub can accept 10sp cassettes which are wider) if I don't have the spacer in place with a standard 9sp cog-set the locking ring bottoms before it clamps the cassette. I don't know when Mavic went to 10sp compatable freehubs (my set is 9mos old), so the question is is your cassette tight? (hold the body with a lockring tool and try to twist the cassette back and forth) If so it would defiantly account for the sloppy indexing!

Veni Vidi Vici · Mar 26, 2005

I second this........

Grumpy said:
My Crossmax's came with a spacer (metal) that must be used with a 9 speed cassette (the free-hub can accept 10sp cassettes which are wider) if I don't have the spacer in place with a standard 9sp cog-set the locking ring bottoms before it clamps the cassette. I don't know when Mavic went to 10sp compatable freehubs (my set is 9mos old), so the question is is your cassette tight? (hold the body with a lockring tool and try to twist the cassette back and forth) If so it would defiantly account for the sloppy indexing!

You'll need the spacer behind the cassette.

VÈÑÍ VÍÐÌ VÌÇÍ ™.

HTail · Mar 26, 2005

No spacer but slight giggle

I don't have the spacer in place, so as a result no matter how tight the cassette is put on, it still giggles a bit. Not enough to affect shifting I think? Actually shifting is rather finicky, but not sure if it's the 9 speed compared to my old 8 or the new Shimano XTR low-normal derailleur?

Anyways, it's a shame for $800 wheels that the cassette doesn't fit snuggly.

Spacer? Where do you get this?

DH_WP · Mar 26, 2005

the spacer is a

vry thin sheet or alloy , I use one on my X-max wheels , withtou it the casset wiggles and rattles ... before I knew about the spacer thing i use to use a large O-ring .. go to your bike shop they should have a few lying around .. I know I got 4 , but only use 2

Grumpy · Mar 26, 2005

HTail said:
I don't have the spacer in place, so as a result no matter how tight the cassette is put on, it still giggles a bit. Not enough to affect shifting I think? Actually shifting is rather finicky, but not sure if it's the 9 speed compared to my old 8 or the new Shimano XTR low-normal derailleur?

Anyways, it's a shame for $800 wheels that the cassette doesn't fit snuggly.

Spacer? Where do you get this?

It's a 10-speed free-hub body, you need the (supplied with the wheels) spacer to use it with 8 or 9 speed cassettes. That crucial little factoid IS in the instructions. If you have lost it you can contact any Mavic dealer for a replacement.

What IS a shame, is that some people can't be bothered to RTFM.

Arek · Mar 26, 2005

Grumpy said:
What IS a shame, is that some people can't be bothered to RTFM.

Thanks for your post. Not sure if that was a direct reference to me, but in case it is, maybe if you re-read my original post you would notice that I DID read - as you put it - TFM. And other than a little diagram showing the round disc-like thingy being put on there before the cassette, and a note calling it a "chain disc", there's absolutely nothing in there that would clearly explain the purpose of that piece. Nor is there any reference to the fact that it is a 10 speed free hub body, and the necessity to use a spacer... Maybe YOU should read carefully, before you jump to conclusions.

Arek

Grumpy · Mar 27, 2005

Arek said:
Thanks for your post. Not sure if that was a direct reference to me, but in case it is, maybe if you re-read my original post you would notice that I DID read - as you put it - TFM. And other than a little diagram showing the round disc-like thingy being put on there before the cassette, and a note calling it a "chain disc", there's absolutely nothing in there that would clearly explain the purpose of that piece. Nor is there any reference to the fact that it is a 10 speed free hub body, and the necessity to use a spacer... Maybe YOU should read carefully, before you jump to conclusions.

Arek

Naa, It was a shot at Htail who said;
"Anyways, it's a shame for $800 wheels that the cassette doesn't fit snuggly"
it was a profoundly smug (and ignorant) statement on his part.

You were asking for help and my first post was to you (a caution that for the last 9mo, at least, x-max's are 10sp FHB's) to check that your cassette was tight.

Arek · Mar 27, 2005

Grumpy said:
Naa, It was a shot at Htail who said;
"Anyways, it's a shame for $800 wheels that the cassette doesn't fit snuggly"
it was a profoundly smug (and ignorant) statement on his part.

You were asking for help and my first post was to you (a caution that for the last 9mo, at least, x-max's are 10sp FHB's) to check that your cassette was tight.

Fair enough. BTW, I went down to my garage to check it out, and in fact I was able to rock the cassette ever so slightly back and forth when I grabbed by the biggest ring and tried to pull it away from the spokes. It's minimal and if I hadn't tried this I wouldn't know, but it's definitely there.
So, that means I am missing a spacer! The question now is, what that spacer is? Is it that "chain disc" thingy they're reffering to in the manual? It really made sense to me that it's purpose is to prevent the chain from falling behind the biggest cog as one of the posters suggested, as the drawing shows it approximatelly the same diameter as the last cog. I can't see why it would have to be that big otherwise. So I'm thinking that the spacer is just a small ring, kind of like the one that goes in between a few last cogs on the cassette?

And speaking of the manual, it's kind of ridiculous, really. I re-checked the whole thing again, just to make absolutely sure I'm not missing anything. Other than the drawing, there isn't anything that refers to the freehub body, any spacers, or even some kind of tech info on servicing. Not only that, but the instructions are actually made for a rim brake version, as the're explaining about cleaning the brake surface, and have diagram showing the proper positioning of brake pads against the rim. All the hub close-ups have no disc mounts either. That is pretty lame, if you ask me! A generic manual, pretty useless for this specific wheelset.
I went on Mavic's site to check if maybe by a fluke I have a wrong one, but no, that's the same thing that opens in .pdf for the Crossmax SL disc wheelset.
And another interesting thing, is I like how on "contact" page there's no contact info at all - no email, no phone number anywhere, just the addresses of mavic's offices in US, France, and Japan. And instructions to contact your local dealer in case you have trouble! Way to go, Mavic!...

Arek

Grumpy · Mar 27, 2005

The spacer supplied with my wheels was a small ring (looked like the old 8 to 7 speed spacer), not at all like the chain disc shown in the instructions. I can't find the card that was in the bag with the ring, but it described the ring as a 10sp to 9sp adaptor that must be used behind the cassette when running 9sp.

I know what you mean about the "manual" supplied with the wheels, next to useless, if you want the (real) service manuals (that actually show how to service and adjust the bearings and freehub body) go up to the Mavic site and use this login to get the service area
login= mavic-com
pass= dealer
you then will be able to D/L the complete service guides (there are about 7 separate .pdf docs). As for the ring, you will need to contact a Mavic dealer as they will not deal directly with customers.

Arek · Mar 27, 2005

Grumpy said:
The spacer supplied with my wheels was a small ring (looked like the old 8 to 7 speed spacer), not at all like the chain disc shown in the instructions.

How thick is that spacer? Do you thinkI could use a spacer that normally goes between a few last cogs on 9 speed cassette?

Arek

Click to expand...

Lemonhead · Mar 28, 2005

Arek said:
How thick is that spacer? Do you thinkI could use a spacer that normally goes between a few last cogs on 9 speed cassette?

Arek

Perhaps this pic from my Ksyrium manual can help. My wheelset is a few years old, but notice that for a Mavic/Shimano setup, the spacer ring is on the freehub body. For Campy, the spacer is off (possibly because prior to the new Dura Ace, Campy was the only 10 speed setup you can get.)

Anyhow, Grumpy's right. You don't need that chain disc because, whether on or off, it does not affect the cassette's spacing. However, you would certainly need that spacer ring if your cassette still has some play in it.

Soloracer · Mar 28, 2005

Any bike shop should have them.

I had the same problem when I dropped my wheels off to put on a new bike. I had the spacer, but the wrench thought that I did not need the spacer. I went to performance and bought one of their thinnest cassette spacers. One turned out to be enough, So I stopped by Edge Cycles in Fruita and bought another thin one, this did the trick. You may want to bring the wheels with you, so that you can ensure that you get the right one.

jim

Grumpy · Mar 28, 2005

Arek said:
Grumpy said:

The spacer supplied with my wheels was a small ring (looked like the old 8 to 7 speed spacer), not at all like the chain disc shown in the instructions.

How thick is that spacer? Do you thinkI could use a spacer that normally goes between a few last cogs on 9 speed cassette?

Arek

Click to expand...

I haven't measured it but i would guess it about 2 or 3 mm thick. If you can't obtain the exact part the cassette cog spacer should be close. It would at least tighten up your cassette.

Click to expand...

Arek · Mar 28, 2005

Grumpy said:
I haven't measured it but i would guess it about 2 or 3 mm thick. If you can't obtain the exact part the cassette cog spacer should be close. It would at least tighten up your cassette.

Well, I tried the 9 speed XT cassette spacer, which is roughly 3mm, or 1/8", and it was way too thick - the smallest cog had nothing to sit on and was sliding on top.
So I measured the lenght of the freehub body (just from the point where the ninth cog would start) on my old wheel, which has an XT disc hub, and the new Crossmax one. The old freehub was exactly 1 3/8", and the Mavic - maybe 1/16" longer than that.
So it looks like that spacer must be wafer thin! Oh, I'm so confused now!...
I'm taking the wheel to my LBS tomorrow...

Arek

Grumpy · Mar 28, 2005

That could be correct, though I really don't recall it being wafer thin, I only looked at the ring momentarily when I got the wheels 9 mos ago (and was eager to get them on and out on a ride). In any case the best bet is to obtain the correct ring from your LBS.

Arek · Mar 28, 2005

The main question I'd like to know the answer to, is why on earth would Mavic make the Crossmax freehub for a 10 speed cogset?! Last time I checked, there were no 10sp compatible mountain shifters... Maybe the only reason is that the freehub on Crossmax'es is the same as on their road wheels, like Ksyriums?

Arek

Grumpy · Mar 28, 2005

I can only guess, it is likely a combo of; they want to make as few different parts as they can, AND it is nice to make forward compatible parts if you can. You may or may not remember what a PITA it was when the FHB's went wider to accommodate 8sp clusters. I for one will gladly put a ring on before my cassette in exchange for compatibility with the upcoming 10sp cassettes (and they are coming, that is inevitable)

Question to Crossmax SL disc wheels owners

Arek

Lemonhead

Arek

Grumpy

Veni Vidi Vici

HTail

DH_WP

Grumpy

Arek

Grumpy

Arek

Grumpy

Arek

Lemonhead

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Soloracer

Grumpy

Arek

Grumpy

Arek

Grumpy

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