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Help an old man upgrade from a 20yr old 26er to a new steel 29er.

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4.7K views 45 replies 31 participants last post by  car_nut  
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#1 · (Edited)
First a little about me and my current bike…

41 years old, 6'2", 245 pounds and have been riding the same 1991 GT Karakoram K2 on and off for the last 20 years (pic bellow). Two years ago I dusted of the old bike in search of some weight loss (it worked, I'm about 40lbs lighter now) and last spring I decided I would get off the bike paths and try to become the real mountain biker I always wanted to be… by the end of season I had ridden a bit over 500 miles in the mountains of north Idaho and central Washington. And I love it, this is the first strenuous physical activity I've every enjoyed, so much so that for the first time in my life I'm in the gym this winter working on loosing some more weight and building my endurance. Anyway, enough back story and on to the new bike…

I've done a lot of searching and reading that has focused a few options and I'm looking to build a geared steel 29er. My current plan is to buy a DB donor bike ( https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom29_pro_xi.htm ) and a steel frame. The frame choice is the question at hand. My lack for experience with modern bikes leaves me a little uncertain which frame will be a better match for me. I know riding some other bikes would help but I don't have much opportunity to do that so I'm looking for some advice from others.

Most of my riding is on steep and rough moto trails with lots of roots, rocks and ruts, there are switchbacks here and there but by and large the trail are not too tight. This is leading me to something with geometry that's more trail than XC race. Also there are a few issues I've noted with my current bike that I would like to eliminate or at least minimize with the new one. The hand fatigue from the rigid fork and lever force required with the rim brakes has got to go, but the squishy fork and hyd. disks should remedy that regardless of frame choice. More frame related, I have to get way forward with the nose of the seat up my backside to keep the front down when climbing the steep stuff, so a steeper seat tube/longer chain stays my be in order. And I wouldn't say the old bike feels super stable, I'm definitely more "on top" than "in" the bike.

My leading frame choice at this point is the Vassago Bandersnatch (20"), it seems to address my current issues and is cheap enough I think I can swing it. The Niner M.C.R. 9 looks good but is out of my price range unless I can find a good deal on a lightly used one. I also like the Salsa El Mariachi, I don't need the convertible dropouts, and its pushing my budget, but if it's the better choice I could find a way.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Gary

My current bike
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#4 ·
Yeah, stems about 130mm and I use to ride it with the quill down low with a flat bar, hard on the back. Top tube is 23" so I figure something new with a 24-25" ETTL and a 90mm stem should fit OK.

Those short chain stays on the Karate Monkey have got to make the front end light on the climb, not sure that's what I'm looking for.
 
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#5 ·
Congrats on getting back on the bike. 41 isn't that old to me anymore (just turned 41 in Dec).

Given that you tend to keep your bikes for a long time, I'd suggest getting a nice steel frame, skip the hydro disc's... they're cool and all, but a set of Avid BB7's set up correctly will do you fine, pick up a rigid fork and a squish fork, that will give you options, options are good. I'd say skip the bikes direct junk, look for deals on 9 spd stuff, all the hip kids and pro's are going 2x10, so good deals if you look around.

Vassago is experiencing some "growing pains" and does not have any bikes available.

The Surly Karate Monkey is a solid bike, although a little heavy and will let you multi-task

The Salsa El Mariachi is a nice bike, but might be overkill if you're interested in SS. Maybe look for a left over '09?

Soma Juice is similar to the KM

Voodoo Soukri is a nice ride for the $

Niner EMD is sweet, but pricey

Good luck, here's to the next 20 years
 
#6 ·
OK, first up you're not OLD, if you are then so am I and I AM NOT old :p

Now onto the bike, my suggestion since you haven't ridden a 29er before, is to get that BD bike and give it a few rides to see how you like it's geometry. Find out what you do and don't like, then tailor your search for the steel frame knowing what you're looking for. I'm no BD fan, but you never know, you might actually like it as is and forget about the steel. I'd also consider getting the XL and experiment with using a 25" ETT and if you don't like it you can always get the steel frame in a L/24" ETT.

As for steel frames, I really like my Karate Monkey, it's a very versatile frame that can be used for so many different purposes. As to the short stays, the shortest they go is 17", but it uses sliders, so you can go back as far as I think 17.75" if you really wanted - comes standard with 10mm Monkey nuts to pull the wheel back for larger tyres.
 
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#7 ·
I’ve been following the Vassago “situation” , I hope they have product available again soon, I’m not ready to buy just yet so I can wait a bit.
The BD bike seem the most affordable way to get a build kit, if I buy that level stuff piece by piece I wont have any money for a frame. I’m not the type to do a lot of upgrading, I do better if I buy the newest/best I can afford, then at least its up to date for a few years.
I’ve got no interest in SS at this point, I’m old and ride in steep areas, I need deep gears.
Why would you recommend the EMD over the MCR? The MCR seems better suited to what I’m looking for, unless I’m way off?

Gary
 
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#9 ·
Going with a donor bike is good approach to keep your component costs down.The Bandersnatch is a great riding bike, and is an excellent climber. I rode mine rigid with the Vassago Odis fork and also with an 80mm Manitou Minute. I usually feel the rigid set-up provides quicker handling, but to my surprise the bike really felt great with the Manitou. I know you are looking for a new frame and Vasssago is in flux right now, but if you keep your eyes open you could probably find a decent deal on a lightly used Bander, you just never know.

You might also consider a Singular Swift. I currently own and ride a Singular Gryphon set-up as a 1x9 and its really a great handling bike, and quality built to boot. Like you I did also consider a new Salsa El Mariachi, and a Quiring Q-Ball Might be another steel 29er option. All 3 of those aforementioned choices would allow for a geared set-up and all should provide you with riding enjoyment for years to come.
 
#10 ·
I am not sure the ride difference a steel 29er offers would be worth the trouble of swapping everything over, plus it will be about two Lbs. heavier. Do you have a LBS that stocks 29er's? The service and advice "can" be worth more than the savings you get from going mail order.
 
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#12 ·
You aren't old & neither is your bike.

You are mature & your bike is either a survivor or vintage depending on your viewpoint!

A modern steel 29er will be a huge difference to the GT, Id suggest a Swift, but Im biased, really though any mentioned will be such a leap from the old girl you will be blown away.
 
#14 ·
Nothing wrong with using the BD bike as a donor. It's all Reba, XT, and Avid so the haters are pretty much talking out of their arse about "more trouble than it's worth" nonsense. C'mon!!. The Al frame is pretty jarring but you're going to get a steel frame so that problem is eliminated right there. The wheelset's not the best out there but it'll work for your needs. Compare the geometry of your GT when you size it up if you plan on riding it before you get your steel frame. I had a Fantom Pro I rode for a few years before using it as a donor bike for my steel VooDoo. The only complaint I had about BD was the long top tube which I should've investigated myself beforehand.
 
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#15 · (Edited)
Your as old as you think brother. I got 15 years on you and I suggest you try to forget about your old age and just pretend you're still some young punk and kick butt - just don't fall as much. Loved my older skid mark brown SS Karate Monkey so much I bought a new 2011 model and giving the other up for my 14 year-old son. I've got a decked-out Niner MCR (both rigs rigid) and guess what bike I prefer - da Monkey. Carves out single track like a hot knife thru butter and really a blast to ride. Check out Bicycles Bananas. Posted some pics of new build in Photo Gallery under Single Speed. It'll make you love riding again.
 
#16 ·
First off, it's your current ride that is old. It looks like Huck-n-Roll is still selling Vassago frames for $489. The Bandersnatch is at the top of my list. I am also looking for a steel 29er frame to build up this winter/spring. Good luck with the decision, lots to choose from.
 
#17 ·
What timeline are you on? IF you can wait a couple months BD will have a steel 29er available.
Even if you get the other BD bike you might want to try riding it before you commit to a new frame. Even an Alu hard tail will be quite an upgrade from your current ride. It will also give you an example of geometry to try before you settle on the new frame.
I started on a GF paragon and then went steel with a On One when the GF broke. I liked both but the inbred is better.
 
#18 ·
you can find a bander if you look around. A buddy of mine just ordered one from a shop on line.
I have been riding a Jabber going on three years now and I love the steel frame ride over aluminum.
I am 5'10" and I ride a small (16) Jabber. The TT is 23.6" Vassago will tell you to err on the smaller side of the frame sizing chart as the "wet cat geo" puts you in the bike, not on top. They are a great ride.

Oh....and by the way....in March I will be turning 55 and still killing the singletrack!
so, no.....your not old by any means!

Tone.
 
#20 ·
a straight gauge frame like the Karate Monkey rides at least as rough as a mid level aluminum frame. Might be worth giving the knock of China frame a spin before you trade out the frame, just a thought.

First and foremost buy something that fits! MTBR people don't seem to look at this close enough when it comes time for a new bike but it is the very first thing you should look at when buying a new frame or complete bike. Also along the fit lines be aware that as you are not young and your fitness level may change notably your bike fit will also change in a couple of ways. You may gain flexibility you haven't seen in years and that will allow you to ride a much different bike comfortably than you could ride today.

Good luck on your continuation as a cyclist and don't let a bunch of experts/idiots (the internet seems to breed both in high numbers) on the internet influence your buying decisions to much.
 
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#21 ·
OK, I’ll lay off the “old man” talk, it was a bit tongue-in-cheek anyway. Truth is mountain biking makes me feel pretty young, special when crash. That may sound funny but there’s something about getting up and brushing off the dirt that makes me feel like a kid again.

I wish the LBS was a better option, there is only one where I live, nice guys (in fact I bought the GT there 20 years ago), but the only carry Specialized, not many 29ers and they don’t let test bikes out of the parking lot. Not that I have anything against the big “S”, they make a fine bike and it seems they have 29er geo down pretty well from what I’ve read. Just seems you pay a heavy premium for the name, I can’t get anywhere close to the component level of the BD bike. There are a few LBSs in CDA Idaho where I work, but last fall when I was pokin’ around there was only one 29er between them, I guess I should look around some more if only to get a better idea of fit. Maintenance isn’t really an issue as I’m pretty handy with a tool and if there is something I want the shop to do I’ll just have to pay the man.

The idea of riding the DB frame for a while to get a feel for modern bikes was one I had myself, and with a few others suggesting it, seems like an even better one now. I fear that the aluminum frame might not last long under me, not only am I packin’ a few pounds, but what I lack in uphill speed I like to make up on the down. I’m not talking major air, but I’m pretty aggressive and like to ride near the limit. Riding the rigid this last year has taught me a lot about picking lines and trying to ride smooth. But when there seem to be no good choices I often find myself taking a little weight of the front wheel and bombing through as opposed to slowing down.

I’m going to dig a little deeper into some of your other suggestions, thanks for the good advice so far.

Gary
 
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#22 ·
Well then, learn to get your arse off the saddle at those times and also unweight the rear and let it float over the rough as well. You're riding clipless I take it, so not hard by any stretch to bring the bike into you in those situations.

All_talk said:
................The idea of riding the DB frame for a while to get a feel for modern bikes was one I had myself, and with a few others suggesting it, seems like an even better one now. I fear that the aluminum frame might not last long under me, not only am I packin' a few pounds, but what I lack in uphill speed I like to make up on the down. I'm not talking major air, but I'm pretty aggressive and like to ride near the limit. Riding the rigid this last year has taught me a lot about picking lines and trying to ride smooth. But when there seem to be no good choices I often find myself taking a little weight of the front wheel and bombing through as opposed to slowing down.

I'm going to dig a little deeper into some of your other suggestions, thanks for the good advice so far.

Gary
Click to expand...
 
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#23 ·
I picked up a BD bike last summer as a means of testing the waters. I think it's a great way to get in the door cheap. I've personally found that even test rides can be deceiving. What feels good for 20 minutes can feel pretty bad after 2 hours. A bike that feels all wrong to you might just need a different seat post and/or stem to fit like a glove. If I were you, I'd do the following:
1. Buy the BD bike now before they run out.
2. Pick up some big tires like Ardent 2.4's. I ride similar washed out moto trails at times and these made all of difference. Between the big wheels and the suspension fork you'll feel like you're riding a couch compared to your current bike.
3. Pick up a straight seat post to replace the setback on the BD. Also get either an adjustable stem or some cheap stems in a few lengths. Figure out what really works for you.
4. After all of that, pick up a new frame if you wish.
 
#24 ·
I'd not worry so much about the length of the chain stays till you try some different geometry. I have a Karate Monkey and love it but would be all over the new Canfield Brothers nimble nine with slacker geo, due out any time. Singular Swift, El Mariachi, geared up Black Buck, choices abound.

not so many closeouts as some years now but geared GT Peace with rigid forks are available cheap now and upgrading one wouldn't be too bad. I have a decade on you and need to hit the gym to build the core for to have more fun come riding season.
 
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#25 ·
LyNx said:
Well then, learn to get your arse off the saddle at those times and also unweight the rear and let it float over the rough as well. You're riding clipless I take it, so not hard by any stretch to bring the bike into you in those situations.
Click to expand...
LyNx - arse on the sable is not an issue, unless I'm climbing or on smooth flats I'm off the seat. I grew up riding motos and snowmobiles before they had decent suspension, so standing up and using your legs is all I know. I don't feel like I have good control over the bike without being up and moving my weight around. But it does feel like the bike is taking a good beating under me. Right now I'm using the old school toe clips that came with the bike (see pic above) but I do like being locked in to the pedals so I see clipless in my future.

And what about the GT peace 9r? Is the frame any good? Does it work well with a 80/100mm squishy fork? I've always been a GT fan since way back to my BMX bikes and wouldn't mind riding one now if their steel is any good.

Gary
 
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