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Titanium vs. Carbon pros and cons?

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pdxjohn

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I own an Ellsworth Evolve FS 29er, but am thinking of adding a HT to the herd. Looking for a material that has some compliance but with the stiffness and especially lightness of a HT. To be used for XC racing. Looking to Titanium or Carbon. Any thoughts on relative ride quality? Compliance over rough stuff?

Is there a Ti frame or Carbon frame that is voted superior by most?
 
#2 ·
Both materials with good geometry are very compliant. If you are rich, I say go carbon fiber. Carbon fiber beats Ti in strength to weight and why it is the premium material in racing. That said, most materials have an achilles heel. With carbon fiber its a property called fracture resistance. It doesn't deflect very far before it cracks in other words. Good news is its not designed to elongate much. Look no further than the Superfly by GF. Great bicycle, lots of cracking. So if you have a lifetime warranty, you will be good. But for the average enthusiast who pays for their own bike, I say Ti. I prefer carbon fiber on a road bike but for the rough and tumble world of off road, without team sponsorship, Ti is considered a good value in terms of durability and performance with excellent ride quality.
Hope that helps.
 
#3 ·
Generally speaking, I think you'll find more compliance and a more rugged frame with titanium. I think you'll find a stiffer frame and a lighter weight with carbon.
 
#4 ·
Both great if made properly by experienced builders...

I have posted charts, data and info regarding titanium (from a company that builds with Ti) for people to peruse, read and research (the thread was originally about Ti)...
Bottom line, titanium looks good in that report...

So, to balance out the universe, and because this thread inquires about CF, as well...
Here is some data and info from Calfee Design (a company that builds with CF)...
There are 10-pages of quick read info...the title states clearly, "Bicycle Frame Materials Comparison with a Focus on Carbon Fiber Construction Methods" (be forewarned, CF looks good...although page 4 lists pros and cons you may or may not agree with)...
http://www.calfeedesign.com/whitepaper1.htm

Also, here is a link to "Grades of Carbon Fiber"
http://www.calfeedesign.com/GradesofCarbon.htm

Just to stay politically correct (for those who still like to argue, yes, I am including 2 links for CF, but only 1 link for Ti...boohoo...google "titanium" and click away...), a link to Moots...click on "Why Ti"
http://moots.com/our-craft/

Please do not read into this post. I <3 Titanium... I <3 Carbon Fiber...
This is not my vote for or against Moots or Calfee (it would be a bamboo mountain bike, anyway)...
 
#5 ·
bsdc said:
Generally speaking, I think you'll find more compliance and a more rugged frame with titanium. I think you'll find a stiffer frame and a lighter weight with carbon.
Click to expand...
While I agree that a Ti frame maybe more rugged or less prone to crack, CF depending on modulus and lay up can be made to be quite compliant. If you want a good look into this window, check out Lookusa's videos. CF can be molded non uniform in section to have vertical compliance and lateral stiffness. With Ti you are pretty much relegated to more homogeneous frame elements unless you do something dumb like twist the sections like discussed in another thread.
 
#7 ·
Seat of pants test.
Riding the bike: slight edge to carbon.
Crashing the bike: clear edge Ti.
That said my Superfly has taken a lot of abuse, clearly its not made of tissue paper.
Plenty of 10 year old Moots rolling on, I suspect a smaller number of carbon bikes will live that long.
 
#8 · (Edited)
IMO:

Ti dampens chatter and dull the edge of impact blows better.
I love the feel Ti. Carbon lend itself to more flexible design but I find the ride either to be too stiff or dead-feeling.
Carbon is lighter.

You should arrange a test ride on a specimen of both materials, so you can form your own opinion.
 
#9 ·
murphyd said:
Seat of pants test.
Riding the bike: slight edge to carbon.
Crashing the bike: clear edge Ti.
That said my Superfly has taken a lot of abuse, clearly its not made of tissue paper.
Plenty of 10 year old Moots rolling on, I suspect a smaller number of carbon bikes will live that long.
Click to expand...
There are 50 year old steel frames rolling on, too. How many CF and Ti frames that old? None.

Doesn't mean that steel lasts longer than Ti or CF, though. CF is relatively new, Ti is not. CF is generally used for lighter frames. Doesn't mean it can't be made to have good crash survivability.
 
#10 ·
dirtrider7 said:
Both materials with good geometry are very compliant. If you are rich, I say go carbon fiber. Carbon fiber beats Ti in strength to weight and why it is the premium material in racing. That said, most materials have an achilles heel. With carbon fiber its a property called fracture resistance. It doesn't deflect very far before it cracks in other words. Good news is its not designed to elongate much. Look no further than the Superfly by GF. Great bicycle, lots of cracking. So if you have a lifetime warranty, you will be good. But for the average enthusiast who pays for their own bike, I say Ti. I prefer carbon fiber on a road bike but for the rough and tumble world of off road, without team sponsorship, Ti is considered a good value in terms of durability and performance with excellent ride quality.
Hope that helps.
Click to expand...
Carbon fiber is pricier than Ti? I don't think so.
 
#11 ·
This from riding both experience, not reading magazines:

- carbon fiber: lightest, stiff and numb
- titanium: lighter, flexy, lively

Cannot lose either way. Carbon fiber for mass production is the ticket. Titanium ultra-boutique aura will always be there. Hell, it's there for aluminum and steel with the right builders/customer base.
 
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