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Dyna Sys 10 speed compatability with 9 speed (Shimano systems)

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#21 ·
shiggy said:
Shifters, maybe not. The tooth offset on the 10-sp rings makes the spacing tighter.

The BCD has not changed on the triple cranks, as per Shimano's own tech documents. The double cranks are different.
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Thanks, Shiggy. Current plan is 10-speed cassette, rear shifter, rear deraileur, and chain, paired with existing 9-speed triple crank, front deraileur, and front shifter.

Will post up on how it works out.
 
#22 ·
So, I understand that chainrings are the same thickness, but the ramps are much more elaborate on Dyna Sys- especially on the granny side of the middle ring. Is this necessary to pick up the thinner chain? Has anyone tried running 10-spd chains on the 9-spd rings, particularly XT rings? I'm especially interested in the little ring, since a 24T granny is too big for me. A 22/36 sounds like a great granny for a 29er, and I really want to try it.
 
#23 ·
@dam said:
So, I understand that chainrings are the same thickness, but the ramps are much more elaborate on Dyna Sys- especially on the granny side of the middle ring. Is this necessary to pick up the thinner chain? Has anyone tried running 10-spd chains on the 9-spd rings, particularly XT rings? I'm especially interested in the little ring, since a 24T granny is too big for me. A 22/36 sounds like a great granny for a 29er, and I really want to try it.
Click to expand...
Very limited test, but I got the 10-speed cassette, deraileur, and chain on the bike last night. No shifters until tomorrow, but I used the rear limit screws to "lock" the chain into 7th gear, and ON THE WORKSTAND, the front 9-speed crank, rings, der, and shifter functioned perfectly with the 10-speed chain.

More once the shifters show up, and an actual trail test can be done.
 
#24 ·
ljsmith said:
I just set up a ten speed system on my bike using a mix of 9 speed and 10 speed parts. Since there is a lot of confusing and contradictory information about Shimano dyna sys 10 speed, I thought I would post up some compatability issues I have found.
[...]
4. Nine speed front derailleurs can be used with 10 speed front shifters, but do not work optimally if used with a 10 speed crankset.
Click to expand...
A 2011 MTB with a 2x10 that I just bought came from the factory with a 9spd FD by mistake. Shifting in the front was highly non-optimal. LBS did some tweaking initially before the problem was discovered but it still was barely workable. This was with SRAM S-2200 cranks, a kmc chain and shimano LX FD. If this experience is any indication, I wouldn't bother trying to reuse that 9spd FD when doing a conversion...
 
#26 ·
I have a SLX 10 speed group on my 2011 Giant Reign and am not impressed so far. Lots of angry chain slipping on certain combos(not improper chain line combos). Is there a break in period with chain and such?
 
#27 ·
I'm sorry but why can't the RD's be interchangeable between 9 and 10 speed systems? The shifter and cassette choice (ie: spacing/pull ratio) dictates which combo I can use, not the RD

Sounds like Shimano marketing to me
 
#28 ·
Because in order to improve the reliability of the mtb 10 speed shifting, shimano has finally admitted to themselves that SRAM had the right idea lowering the leverage ratio of the rear derailleur cable pull geometry (which makes the derailleur less sensitive to cable stretch and tension changes from shifter housing movement on a rear suspension bike). So the shifters now pull more cable than before for each shift. SRAM's 10 speed shifters and derailleurs also pull more cable than their 9 speed units. I believe the SRAM 10 speed works out as a 0.8:1 ratio now, their 8/9 speed stuff is 1:1, all shimano derailleurs except the new 10speed mtb (and the 7/8 speed DuraAce) are 2:1 and the shimano 10s MTB is I believe its been measured out as something like 1.25:1.
 
#31 ·
cort said:
I'm sorry but why can't the RD's be interchangeable between 9 and 10 speed systems? The shifter and cassette choice (ie: spacing/pull ratio) dictates which combo I can use, not the RD

Sounds like Shimano marketing to me
Click to expand...
They changed the geometry of the RD. The mtb 10-speed RD moves a different distance for the same amount of cable movement than the old RDs.

Same reason you can not use a SRAM RD with Shimano shifters.
 
#32 ·
rconceptsinc said:
So can someone confirm that you can put 10 spd chainrings on a 9 spd crankset....and things will shift fine? I have an XTR 970 crankset that I would like to use as 10 spd mountain.
Click to expand...
You do not need to change the rings to use a 10-speed chain.

Reportedly, you can put the 10-speed rings on the 9-speed crank, but you may also need to switch to the 10-speed FD and/or front shifter.
 
#33 ·
shiggy said:
You do not need to change the rings to use a 10-speed chain.

Reportedly, you can put the 10-speed rings on the 9-speed crank, but you may also need to switch to the 10-speed FD and/or front shifter.
Click to expand...
Yes I am hoping to re-use my XTR 970 crank on my 2011 Superfly 100 w/ complete Sram X9 10spd. It came with a cheap Shimano 3x10 crank and was wondering if it would work if I just swapped the chainrings on to my XTR 970 crank arms.
 
#34 · (Edited)
ljsmith said:
My personal setup is an 11-28 Ultegra 10 speed cassette, SRAM 1070 chain, SLX 10 speed shifters, XT dyna sys rear derailleur, XT 9 speed front derailleur and an XTR M970
9 speed crankset. My total 10 speed upgrade cost was $210.
Click to expand...
Thanks for covering this so well.

Is the feel and ease of shifting SLX Dyna-sys the same as XT?

You have an XT rear-der why not SLX? Is there any performance or durability difference other than weight?

I demoed the XT Dyna-sys 24/34/42 11/36 recently and it did shift very easily, even under power. Front and rear.

Your cost must be wholesale I'm guessing. I'd pay more than twice for the same, on-line.

Edit: I think my post was lost in the middle here. ljsmith kindly replied to my PM on these questions.

He mentioned the LX shifters shift as easily as XT and release the derailleur upon lever return rather than how XT's release the der upon initial pressure. (I think that this SLX action is more common like my Sram lever action and may be better to resist unwanted shifts from accidental bumping the lever.)

XT rear der rather than SLX, was for weight considerations, not performance or durability reasons.

And his price was so low due to low demand for 10 speed on eBay when he was bidding.

Thanks again lj !
 
#35 ·
Trying to run 10 speed XT dyna-system with 9 speed crankset. Can't get it to work.
Here is the set up: 10speed chain, 10 cassette, 10 rear der, 10 rear shifter, 9 speed crank, 9 speed front der, 9 speed front shifter.
The front will not shift. I can get it to shift up from the granny but not down from the middle to granny. Tried it with both 9 and 10 speed front shifter, short of bending the cage of the front der I tried every trick in the book. Will try 10 speed front der with 10 speed shifter to see if that works. Sucks the big one.
 
#36 ·
morandi said:
Trying to run 10 speed XT dyna-system with 9 speed crankset. Can't get it to work.
Here is the set up: 10speed chain, 10 cassette, 10 rear der, 10 rear shifter, 9 speed crank, 9 speed front der, 9 speed front shifter.
The front will not shift. I can get it to shift up from the granny but not down from the middle to granny. Tried it with both 9 and 10 speed front shifter, short of bending the cage of the front der I tried every trick in the book. Will try 10 speed front der with 10 speed shifter to see if that works. Sucks the big one.
Click to expand...
Bending the FD cage is one of the tricks in the book.

But if the front shifting worked before, it should work now. I would restart the setup from square one. Likely just something basic and minor.
 
#37 ·
shiggy said:
Bending the FD cage is one of the tricks in the book.

But if the front shifting worked before, it should work now. I would restart the setup from square one. Likely just something basic and minor.
Click to expand...
Went back in the garage this morning and got it to work. I raised the front der up and that did the trick. Works fine now.
Odd though, how my front shifting was great with the old 9 speed rear set up, and just by switching up the rear to 10 speed it went to just not shifting at all. Maybe the level of the chain be higher up with the 36 tooth cog.
 
#38 ·
will a 9 speed Shimano XT Crankset work well with the 10 speed cogs & derraileur? i am planning to buy the DynaSys Rear Derraileur, shifters, chain, & Cogs, to upgrade my old drive system but I don't want to change my old 2010 XT Crank & Shimano LX Front Derraileur.
 
#39 ·
Mountain_Rocker said:
will a 9 speed Shimano XT Crankset work well with the 10 speed cogs & derraileur? i am planning to buy the DynaSys Rear Derraileur, shifters, chain, & Cogs, to upgrade my old drive system but I don't want to change my old 2010 XT Crank & Shimano LX Front Derraileur.
Click to expand...
The crankset does not care what the cassette and RD are.

People have been using 10-speed chains on 9-speed drivetrains. You should be fine.
 
#40 ·
shiggy said:
They changed the geometry of the RD. The mtb 10-speed RD moves a different distance for the same amount of cable movement than the old RDs.

Same reason you can not use a SRAM RD with Shimano shifters.
Click to expand...
Well I took a XT 9 speed RD and installed it on the new Dyna-sys DT. It wasn't even close to working properly on the stand - I stand corrected
 
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