What makes more expensive derailleurs, shifters, and cranks better?

joepa150 · Aug 11, 2010

While shopping for an entry level bike, I have been comparing the components of different bikes. I somewhat of an understanding why some forks and brakes are better than others. I just don't understand what makes a more expensive component such as derailleurs, shifters, and cranks better. When I talk to sales associates about those components they seem to have a generic answer about why I should pay more for more expensive components * derailleurs, shifters, cranks ) "shift smoother and are higher quality". I have been on bikes with Shimano Deore shifters and Atlus and Tourney parts. If I didn't see the price tag, I probably wouldn't know which one had better parts just from testing it. I have had mnt bikes with Tourney parts that have skipped a beat for over 10 years.

So what makes the more expensive deraiileurs, shifters, and cranks better?

I am trying to see why I should pay hundreds of dollars more for a bike with a Deore shifter and deraileur when the difference was not noticeable to me. I dont like excepting answer such as "they are just better" without knowing technically why.

Surly29 · Aug 11, 2010

Sometimes you pay extra for the weight (or lack thereof).

And, although you may not want to hear it, I agree with the shop guys. Can't tell you if its materials or a higher level of machining/production or what, but the more expensive drivetrains generally shift smoother and last longer.

jeffscott · Aug 11, 2010

joepa150 said:
While shopping for an entry level bike, I have been comparing the components of different bikes. I somewhat of an understanding why some forks and brakes are better than others. I just don't understand what makes a more expensive component such as derailleurs, shifters, and cranks better. When I talk to sales associates about those components they seem to have a generic answer about why I should pay more for more expensive components * derailleurs, shifters, cranks ) "shift smoother and are higher quality". I have been on bikes with Shimano Deore shifters and Atlus and Tourney parts. If I didn't see the price tag, I probably wouldn't know which one had better parts just from testing it. I have had mnt bikes with Tourney parts that have skipped a beat for over 10 years.

So what makes the more expensive deraiileurs, shifters, and cranks better?

I am trying to see why I should pay hundreds of dollars more for a bike with a Deore shifter and deraileur when the difference was not noticeable to me. I dont like excepting answer such as "they are just better" without knowing technically why.

Hah go demo ride a top of the line bike with the very best shifters etc and then get back to us.

At the very least it will be fun....LBS around here need a drivers license and you are away.

joepa150 · Aug 11, 2010

I realized they might shift smoother and last longer. To me the shifting isn't that much different between a lot of the lower end models (maybe the higher end I would notive a difference). If I can get over ten years out of the lower end components then I don't see a need to have it last longer. At that point I can upgrade the components or buy a new bike.

Also I know every ounce matters but I have a hard time believing that a bike equiped with Deore parts is a significant amount lighter (several pounds) than say a bike equiped with Acera parts (not taking into account the frame and forks.

joepa150 · Aug 11, 2010

jeffscott said:
Hah go demo ride a top of the line bike with the very best shifters etc and then get back to us.

At the very least it will be fun....LBS around here need a drivers license and you are away.

I don't think I would want to demo a top of the line bike for fear that I might have to refinance my home to buy it

I have tested a few bikes around $1000 and other bikes around $400. I couldn't tell much of a difference. I would say if I tested a bike out that is several thousand dollars, it probably would be noticeably much better.

Keep in mind that I am a noob. An experienced rider may be able to notice a major difference between a $400 bike and a $410 bike.

sxr-racer · Aug 11, 2010

joepa150 said:
I realized they might shift smoother and last longer. To me the shifting isn't that much different between a lot of the lower end models (maybe the higher end I would notive a difference). If I can get over ten years out of the lower end components then I don't see a need to have it last longer. At that point I can upgrade the components or buy a new bike.

Also I know every ounce matters but I have a hard time believing that a bike equiped with Deore parts is a significant amount lighter (several pounds) than say a bike equiped with Acera parts (not taking into account the frame and forks.

Is there much difference in an XT vs a Deore Deraileur? Not Much
Is there much difference in an XT Shifter vs Deore Shifter? Not Much
Is there much difference in an XT Crank vs a Deore Crank? Not Much
Is there much difference in XT Hubs vs Deore Hubs? Not much.

you get my point........

Now, add up the weight difference of all the parts combined from a $600.00 Hard Tail to a $1800.00 Hard Tail. There will be a significant difference. Not talking 5 lbs or anything be enough from a weight standpoint that there is a difference. It is more about the package not just difference in a single part. The higher end parts are going to perform somewhat better. How much really depends on the person and how they are going to use it. If you are going to only ride your bike a few times a month, then the Deore level is a great component set. Now if you are going to ride a couple times a week every week (I ride every Wed afternoon and Sunday Morning, unless something comes up, then I may slip a ride in another day) then I would suggest stepping up the component range to SLX / Sram X7 to XT / Sram X9 component levels, also your wheelset will be lighter and most likely stronger. Plus your front fork is going to work much better......

Every bike has a level of use. Dollar for Dollar kinda depends on how much you plan to use it. Exception to the rule is strickly Race Bikes. Many are built to be really light, because of that they can be a bit more fragile and break more often.

If you dont plan to ride much the $600.00 bike will be just fine.
If you plan to ride alot, you will wear out that $600.00 bike a whole lot sooner than you would say the $1800.00. I am not saying you will not have the same enjoyment level. That is all relative.

Just my observations from riding over the past 19 years.

Berkeley Mike · Aug 11, 2010

How does one balance

the idea that you are a noob and you got 10 years out of set of components?

Stuff can last a long time if you don't use it, don't use it in challenging conditions, don't press it hard.

Stuff can last a long time if you keep it well adjusted and lubed.

Stuff can last a long time if you are a highly skilled rider and are considerate of your equipment.

Brand new bikes with brand new components all feel pretty good. Entry level bikes are very impressive right off the showroom floor. I recommend these bikes for new riders on my team. After a year of constant use, though, they really start to sag. Things become less crisp and supple and need to be adjusted more often to perform well. Derailleurs become flexy and shifting becomes sloppy. Even with really good support the second year is not so nice. Higher end stuff is less prone to that. What you learn is that people who ride hard are the relative minority who really put gear to the test. Also, people who ride badly too, but that is another story.

I've been riding dirt for 25 years and have used mostly Shimano component drivetrains. I started with STX (recreational) and now use XT/XTR. I take good care of my stuff and shift with a fair amount of skill. My stuff lasts a long time but not 10 years. I have found it very rare that an LX product out-performed a higher end product. One set of LX brakes on a bike of mine were awesome but I think that was because the levers handled more fingers for power. Other than that whenever I ride on the more modest systems they feel more brittle and balky. The higher level stuff often has smoother/stronger bushings/bearings. At the far end the difference between XT and XTR tends to be weight. As for weight the occasional piece-by-piece upgrading makes only a marginal weight change. In order to take advantage of that the entire system has to change-out for noticeable weight savings.

My son's Yeti Arc, which I built up last December, is as sharp as the day it saw its first test ride after 1000 miles of hard training and racing. I'm a bang-for-buck guy. I tend to XT my bikes unless I come upon a deal. XTR cranks have gotten much cheaper in the last year. I never thought the claims for stiffness meant anything. I got one. Boy was I wrong. The XTR V-brakes on my Bontrager? Simple eye-candy on a good deal.

Some guys have to have all the best stuff. Some guys ride what they have and grin. Yes, Virginia, there is a difference. The question is whether it matters to you.

joepa150 · Aug 11, 2010

Berkeley Mike said:
the idea that you are a noob and you got 10 years out of set of components?

Stuff can last a long time if you don't use it, don't use it in challenging conditions, don't press it hard.

Stuff can last a long time if you keep it well adjusted and lubed.

Stuff can last a long time if you are a highly skilled rider and are considerate of your equipment.

I've been riding dirt for 25 years and have used mostly Shimano component drivetrains. I started with STX (recreational) and now use XT/XTR. I take good care of my stuff and shift with a fair amount of skill. My stuff last a long time but not 10 years.

I have found it very rare that an LX product out-performed a higher end product. One set of LX brakes on a bike of mine were awesome but I think that was because the levers handled more fingers for power. Other than that whenever I ride on the more modest systems they feel more brittle and balky. The higher level stuff often has smoother/stronger bushings/bearings. At the far end the difference between XT and XTR tends to be weight. As for weight the occasional piece-by-piece upgrading makes only a marginal weight change. In order to take advantage of that the entire system has to change-out.

I'm a bang-for-buck guy. I tend to XT my bikes unless I come upon a deal. XTR cranks have gotten much cheaper in the last year. I never thought the claims for stiffness meant anything. I got one. Boy was I wrong.

Some guys have to have all the best stuff. Some guys ride what they have and grin. Yes, Virginia, there is a difference. The question is whether it matters to you.

Well I am a noob to Mountain Biking. I've been riding bikes for recreation for about 25 years. I've owned mountain bikes since 1989. i am accustomed to riding around town, gravel roads, and dirt roads. Not trails. So to the sport of mountain biking, I am a noob.

joepa150 · Aug 11, 2010

sxr-racer said:
Is there much difference in an XT vs a Deore Deraileur? Not Much
Is there much difference in an XT Shifter vs Deore Shifter? Not Much
Is there much difference in an XT Crank vs a Deore Crank? Not Much
Is there much difference in XT Hubs vs Deore Hubs? Not much.

you get my point........

Now, add up the weight difference of all the parts combined from a $600.00 Hard Tail to a $1800.00 Hard Tail. There will be a significant difference. Not talking 5 lbs or anything be enough from a weight standpoint that there is a difference. It is more about the package not just difference in a single part. The higher end parts are going to perform somewhat better. How much really depends on the person and how they are going to use it. If you are going to only ride your bike a few times a month, then the Deore level is a great component set. Now if you are going to ride a couple times a week every week (I ride every Wed afternoon and Sunday Morning, unless something comes up, then I may slip a ride in another day) then I would suggest stepping up the component range to SLX / Sram X7 to XT / Sram X9 component levels, also your wheelset will be lighter and most likely stronger. Plus your front fork is going to work much better......

Every bike has a level of use. Dollar for Dollar kinda depends on how much you plan to use it. Exception to the rule is strickly Race Bikes. Many are built to be really light, because of that they can be a bit more fragile and break more often.

If you dont plan to ride much the $600.00 bike will be just fine.
If you plan to ride alot, you will wear out that $600.00 bike a whole lot sooner than you would say the $1800.00. I am not saying you will not have the same enjoyment level. That is all relative.

Just my observations from riding over the past 19 years.

What your stating is pretty much how I already looked at it. I guess I just didn't realize it. Great points and I think you helped me get closer to buying my bike. Thanks.

uzurpator · Aug 11, 2010

MMky.

If you compare brand new, well adjusted components then tourney is going to perform just as well as XTR. The main difference between those two will be the weight of the bike.

There are however certain build differences that will manifest sooner or later.

1. It takes much longer for an slx deraileur to become essentially non-adjustable then it takes an Acera.
I once bought Acera for my commuter. It died in less then a month - it developed enough play on the pivots that indexing became impossible. Deore rear der, which was the replacement, shifts happily for 7 months now.

2. You get more speeds with higher end componentry ( 7 in case od tourney, 8 for acera, 9 for alivio and deore, 10 slx and up ). This may or may not be a factor for you, but there are some benefits in having more speeds.

3. In cassettes you get pretty much only less weight. However you need to buy at least acera to get cassette freehub. Tourney is freewheel only.

Words cannot express why freewheels suck and cassettes rule.

4. Chains above HG50/PC850 just drop some weight.

5. In higher end cranksets you get an option to replace individual chainrings. However, higher end cranksets tend to get aluminum chanrings which may shift better (due to extra cnc on them) but wear faster.

6. Higher end shifters usually introduce some nifty features, such as dual release. Altho I found alivios to be the most comfortable for me

Berkeley Mike · Aug 11, 2010

That makes sense

joepa150 said:
Well I am a noob to Mountain Biking. I've been riding bikes for recreation for about 25 years. I've owned mountain bikes since 1989. i am accustomed to riding around town, gravel roads, and dirt roads. Not trails. So to the sport of mountain biking, I am a noob.

It is what I sort of figured.

Your basic $600 bike of today is a much more interesting bike than the $600 bike of 2000 even adjusted for inflation. (We did the comparison on a thread some months ago.) Disc brakes, more sophisticated shocks, lighter frames, more realistic riding positions, more comfortable saddles.

I see a lot of bikes hard used over the years. As such I have raised the bar on what I consider good entry level bikes for our teen riders early years. FWIW here is what I recommend. Other companies have equivalent bikes but I know Specialized well:

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=45803&eid=4340&menuItemId=9253

(I have a parallel. I have a 2001 Toyota Tacoma Quad cab. I went and looked at a new one. Wow. I walked a way. I own my truck outright and she is just fine, thankyouverymuch. Yet if I didn't own a truck already and needed one I'd buy it in a heartbeat.)

You are asking good questions but the answers have only so much weight. I suggest this. You already ride so riding is not a "maybe I'll like it" sort of thing which is often hit-or-miss with a bike ending up gathering dust with flat tires in the garage. One or two hundred extra dollars at this point, if that is not a a hardship, is not wasted.

Good luck.

electricc0wb0y · Aug 11, 2010

I think that his question has more to do with deore (M5xx) versus alivio or acera. There may be some minor strength/performance differences between acera/alivio and deore, but after deore the improvements are primarily weight related IMO. (I am only talking about shifters/derailleurs. Some of the other XT components are much improved, ie cranksets.)

If you are happy with the rest of the bike, then the rear derailleur is a small issue. (It's difficult to screw the front one up.) I would be more concerned with the fit of the bike frame, the number of speeds, and the type of brakes. Changing the # of speeds or frame may cost more than the bike. Overhauling to different brakes costs enough to discourage you. You can always replace the rear derailleur if/when it fails.

joepa150 · Aug 11, 2010

uzurpator,

Thanks for the info. You gave me more info than 5 sales associates did.

Berkeley Mike,

I am actually looking at Specialized and Giant. I just do not know what model yet and most of the LBS in my area are out of 2010 and don't have the 2011 stocked yet. So I will have to wait to test them. The Rockhopper you linked is beyond my budget but not out of the question.

What makes more expensive derailleurs, shifters, and cranks better?

joepa150

Surly29

jeffscott

joepa150

joepa150

sxr-racer

Berkeley Mike

joepa150

joepa150

uzurpator

Berkeley Mike

electricc0wb0y

joepa150

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