High Engagement Point Hubs

DeeZee · Jul 1, 2009

Same here

creationrebel said:
Once you have em', you know the difference.

I have got 2 bikes with Hadley's and one with King. All 72 points of engagement.

As I'm planning my 29er wheel build, Hadley is the only choice for me.

Hadley:thumbsup:

DeeZee · Jul 1, 2009

Agree

FASTK said:
Hope hubs should get a consideration for their conversion kit ease. Switching from QR5m to RWS, to QR15 to 20mm maxle is a huge plus as a look to future bikes and what I might be running on the forks.:thumbsup: Oh and they engage great too.

My favorite set-up is a Hadley rear (10mm though bolt) and Hope front hub (for conversions)

poff · Jul 1, 2009

18 pts are fine in flatlands. I prefer 72 pts here in NCali where climbs are long and steep.

D.F.L. · Jul 1, 2009

eastspur said:
I mostly just posted because when researching 29er wheelsets I heard a lot of people say not to get the C29SSMAX set. Why? The only 2 reasons I ever heard were due to low engagement and replacement spokes.

Do you understand about the plastic bushing inside the (steel) freehub?

FoShizzle · Jul 1, 2009

88 rex said:
I have done I9 and Crossmax back to back. For myself, I think the points of engagement hype for mountain bikes is..........hype. Those I9's sure do look pretty though.

Just my opinion.

yep...Hype indeed. 29er dolts however simply cannot differentiate

juansevo · Jul 2, 2009

CaveGiant said:
The stealth uses a sprag bearing, a very easy idea that I am surprised no-one else does.

If I remember correctly that is also what was used in Machinetech's hubs....and well I still have scars from it slipping oh a 1/4 rotation out of no where from time to time.

When I was at LEW years back we were looking at using it for our own hub. Neat idea but tolerances have to be VERY Tight and even then believe drag was a huge issue too. Too bad because they are pretty cool mechanical devices.

2TurnersNotEnough · Jul 2, 2009

The True Precision hubs do not use a ratchet mechanism. So yes, they are instant.

bigdawg45 · Jul 2, 2009

I agree with poff. On flatlands low poe is fine. You get on steep technical climbs and lose momentum or spin and see how your low poe hub fares compared to the higher poe hub.

eastspur · Jul 2, 2009

D.F.L. said:
Do you understand about the plastic bushing inside the (steel) freehub?

Enlighten me.

troyer2112 · Jul 2, 2009

i ride a monocog flight 29er and i have redline hubs, the engagement is piss poor. i hate the fact that i have to either pedal backwards or just stomp on air until it engages! it is always on my mind when im wanting to get momentum for the hill or rocks im about to navigate. all i want is better engagement. i would like the beauty of i9s and the kings, but at the very least i want better engagement. why wouldnt all hubs be instant? doesnt really make sense. are there people who would prefer the stomping on air when riding? when are crank brothers going to make 29er wheels?

D.F.L. · Jul 2, 2009

eastspur said:
Enlighten me.

It wears out and cannot be replaced separately. It's part of the freehub assembly, which costs about $75. When I was working in a shop, we had a lot of people on Mavic wheels. People who rode a lot needed a new one every year, plus labor. After a while, the surface that the bushing runs on (aluminum) wears out, too, so there's no way to remove the wobble. Now, if you want to service the hub frequently, you can extend the bushing life, but few people do this.

It's also a steel freehub body, which is sorta heavy and not what one might expect at the price point. They save weight by going with a plastic bushing...

Is Mavic's warranty still an extra charge?

I'm not telling anybody to dislike them, just passing along what I've found.

(I didn't think high-POE hubs were a big deal until I went back to an old wheel.)

eastspur · Jul 2, 2009

D.F.L. said:
It wears out and cannot be replaced separately. It's part of the freehub assembly, which costs about $75. When I was working in a shop, we had a lot of people on Mavic wheels. People who rode a lot needed a new one every year, plus labor. After a while, the surface that the bushing runs on (aluminum) wears out, too, so there's no way to remove the wobble. Now, if you want to service the hub frequently, you can extend the bushing life, but few people do this.

It's also a steel freehub body, which is sorta heavy and not what one might expect at the price point. They save weight by going with a plastic bushing...

Is Mavic's warranty still an extra charge?

I'm not telling anybody to dislike them, just passing along what I've found.

(I didn't think high-POE hubs were a big deal until I went back to an old wheel.)

The warranty is extra and 8% of msrp. It covers crashes though so it's more like a protection plan like you see for electronics than a warranty. I didn't get it. I got them for close to cost and still think they are bad ass wheels (at least for what I payed). I honestly don't mind servicing them once a year. Is 75 msrp for the assembly?
I see crossmax replacement bushings online for around 12 dollars. Is this what you are talking about? Are they the same as the 26" versions?

eastspur · Jul 2, 2009

D.F.L. said:
It wears out and cannot be replaced separately. It's part of the freehub assembly, which costs about $75. When I was working in a shop, we had a lot of people on Mavic wheels. People who rode a lot needed a new one every year, plus labor. After a while, the surface that the bushing runs on (aluminum) wears out, too, so there's no way to remove the wobble. Now, if you want to service the hub frequently, you can extend the bushing life, but few people do this.

It's also a steel freehub body, which is sorta heavy and not what one might expect at the price point. They save weight by going with a plastic bushing...

Is Mavic's warranty still an extra charge?

I'm not telling anybody to dislike them, just passing along what I've found.

(I didn't think high-POE hubs were a big deal until I went back to an old wheel.)

I also found this on velonews. It goes over my head but how long ago is your experience? It seems Mavic addressed the issue with the FTS-X hubs. Or is that the hub design you have experience with?

"Mavic has a solution for high freehub wear rate. The FTS-X freehub system retains the bushings so often complained about but reduces wear on them with harder pawls.Mavic points out that its two-pawl FTS system is a very good freehub system only in need of a bit of tweaking. It's efficient and stiff, being a part of the hub body supported by bearings near either end of the axle,rather than being a separate part with correspondingly inboard bearing support. It is extremely simple to disassemble, clean, maintain and reassemble.The bushing on the inboard interior end of the freehub body that riders who have had problems assume is a cheap substitute for a bearing is actually far superior to a bearing and is not the cause of freehub failure at all, according to Mavic. Loaded up to 400 kg under the pedaling force of many riders is no problem for it, as it can withstand almost a ton of load without distorting, where as a bearing can be damaged with a 300 kg load applied to it. It's 40 grams lighter than a bearing, and when freewheeling, there is no load on the bushing and hence no friction (and it's as slick as Teflon to boot).So what's been the problem? Over the years, Mavic has upped the hardness of its freehub bodies without increasing the hardness of the pawls, which can wear away and generate fine steel dust capable of grinding down thebushing. Furthermore, the thread-in axle stub can loosen up. And finally, the chain can drop onto the chain stay when freewheeling because the friction of the freehub is so high, not due to bushings or bearings, but due to a sticky lip seal.In going from the current FTS-L system to FTS-X, Mavic has made the pawls of harder steel and applied threadlock (good for six disassemblies before applying new Loctite) to the axle end screw threads. The new pawls, being so hard, could not be forged with the little tabs to hold them in place, so those tabs are now on snap-on plastic pieces. Mavic has also created a new lip seal made of softer material with a slick surface treatment to reduce frictional drag by 50 percent. All of these changes are compatible with current Mavic freehub bodies,but the upgrade parts will not be available for until late next season when Mavic gets over the production hump for the 2007 wheels, all of which incorporate the freehub changes."

cgarolr · Jul 5, 2009

swaldrop said:
Same could easily be said for just about any part on any bike. All you need to go faster is a titanium this or a carbon that.

Don't forget to pick up the swing trainers... When that high dollar bike fails to make you a better rider, maybe you can shoot for the champions tour.

I think it would help our redline SSers when climbing the hills around here...I know I notice a loss of effeciency when trying to post a fast time on a trail...for everyday fun, slow riding, I imagine no difference is noticed other than the "hey, look at me" loud clicking noise.

cgarolr · Jul 5, 2009

also, what about surly hubs? i saw a Jim Brown Ltd Edition for sale...anyone know what those engagement points are?

Boyonabyke · Jul 5, 2009

jjcools said:
You got me. I was only saying that you get what you pay for, the high end hubs can be rebuilt and are not disposable as some others. People keep them for a long time and many of the high end hubs have more POE, besides Hope maybe the new Spynergy. I am sure others to but you get my thought at least.

I believe the new Spinergy hubs are Hadley hubs.

High Engagement Point Hubs

DeeZee

DeeZee

poff

D.F.L.

FoShizzle

juansevo

2TurnersNotEnough

bigdawg45

eastspur

troyer2112

D.F.L.

eastspur

eastspur

cgarolr

cgarolr

Boyonabyke

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