So, I've got a dozen or so rides on my new Mojo and am still messing around with the rebound settings on the Fox RPL rear shock. Started with the knob in the middle and have been experimenting with faster and slower from there. Have settled on a setting about 3 clicks out from full slow, which kind of surprised me. Any faster than that and the rear end feels pretty bouncy. Anybody else finding they need slow rebound to keep the rear under control? For the record, I'm about 180lbs with a full camelbak and dressed to ride. I'm running just under 170 psi in the shock to get 13mm of sag for my XC style riding.
Fox RPL...rebound setting?
ripn
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So, I've got a dozen or so rides on my new Mojo and am still messing around with the rebound settings on the Fox RPL rear shock. Started with the knob in the middle and have been experimenting with faster and slower from there. Have settled on a setting about 3 clicks out from full slow, which kind of surprised me. Any faster than that and the rear end feels pretty bouncy. Anybody else finding they need slow rebound to keep the rear under control? For the record, I'm about 180lbs with a full camelbak and dressed to ride. I'm running just under 170 psi in the shock to get 13mm of sag for my XC style riding.
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At the Bikeskills clinic, Joe Lawwill advocated using very fast rebound settings, just enough to create barely perceptible damping.
Although he never stated the reasoning for it, I think the idea was that if use the right techniques to work with the bike over bumps and obstacles, rather than just sitting on it passively while it bangs into them, you won't need much damping, while if you try to dial out the "bucking bronco" sensation when you have too much weight on the saddle over obstacles, the rebound will be so slow that it'll be too easy to pack the suspension down, and you won't really have the travel you paid for.
Although he never stated the reasoning for it, I think the idea was that if use the right techniques to work with the bike over bumps and obstacles, rather than just sitting on it passively while it bangs into them, you won't need much damping, while if you try to dial out the "bucking bronco" sensation when you have too much weight on the saddle over obstacles, the rebound will be so slow that it'll be too easy to pack the suspension down, and you won't really have the travel you paid for.
how fast
I'd run it as fast as you can with out getting bucked up off the saddle when riding off a curb SEATED. Often this = 1 - 3 clicks from full open fast setting. It can work fine slower as well but when you get going fast the suspension may not be able to recover from between bumps and will "pack down" a bit, starting to skip and feel harsh.
H
I'd run it as fast as you can with out getting bucked up off the saddle when riding off a curb SEATED. Often this = 1 - 3 clicks from full open fast setting. It can work fine slower as well but when you get going fast the suspension may not be able to recover from between bumps and will "pack down" a bit, starting to skip and feel harsh.
H
I have come across this already. It is very interesting. Essentially ( as I understand it) the rebound control does very little until it gets close to fully closed. This is because it is a hollow needle valve. The propedal goes up the middle. It has to go a fair way through its adjustment before it engages the valve. I got this info from all three tuning specialists in the uk. All three said the same thing, that the control does almost nothing until about 5-6 clicks from fully closed. Then the effect get more progressive. Non propedal fox units don't suffer from this quite as badly as the needle isn't hollow.
Personally I have struggled to get a rebound setting I like. The Push mod improves things but I still find I am 1 or 2 clicks from fully closed and that the steps between clicks are very large indeed.
From TF tuned in the Uk I learnt that many of the modern shocks need to be run close to fully closed. We assume that adjustments for the devices are linear and consistent but they aren't
Personally I have struggled to get a rebound setting I like. The Push mod improves things but I still find I am 1 or 2 clicks from fully closed and that the steps between clicks are very large indeed.
From TF tuned in the Uk I learnt that many of the modern shocks need to be run close to fully closed. We assume that adjustments for the devices are linear and consistent but they aren't
nzl62: Interesting stuff. That seems to fit with what I've found as well. At 2 clicks out from full slow it's REALLY slow, but one more click out is considerably faster and much beyond that feels like there is virtually no rebound damping at all.
hans: Thanks for the advice. Gave it a try and still found l needed a lot of damping (at least 4 or 5 clicks out from full fast) to keep from pogo sticking after I dropped off the curb. Is the 09' RPL and RP23 rebound damping/compression level the same?
hans: Thanks for the advice. Gave it a try and still found l needed a lot of damping (at least 4 or 5 clicks out from full fast) to keep from pogo sticking after I dropped off the curb. Is the 09' RPL and RP23 rebound damping/compression level the same?
Yeah I agree. I run 2 clicks from closed because the jump to 3 is a bit too much. Apparently if the valve had a proper tapered needle the adjuster would work better, but because of the Pro Pedal stuff up the middle, the needle point is squared off...if you follow. So the point would have been into the valve a bit, but as it is squared off , it isn't.
I want to get a different shock, a coil. I think the Mojo is good in its stock form, but the RP23 is the weakest link ( better than DT though IMO)
I want to get a different shock, a coil. I think the Mojo is good in its stock form, but the RP23 is the weakest link ( better than DT though IMO)
I have a RPL and am finding the same thing. I am running really close to closed or else I get bounced off the saddle too much. Maybe too much air pressure as well?
I am 185 dressed and have 185-190 psi. I ride/race X/C with 140 up front. What are others using for psi?
I am 185 dressed and have 185-190 psi. I ride/race X/C with 140 up front. What are others using for psi?
I'm running about 30% sag and that helps. The initial small bump compliance of the RP23 isn't great. Pushing it helps but whatever people say, it isn't a coil.
I'm 185 with gear and run probably closer to 175psi on a pushed rp23, people really sholdn't be afraid of sag, it doesn't rob you of travel. Sag lets the wheel drop into dips and helps to even up the trail which makes you ride faster.
I'm 185 with gear and run probably closer to 175psi on a pushed rp23, people really sholdn't be afraid of sag, it doesn't rob you of travel. Sag lets the wheel drop into dips and helps to even up the trail which makes you ride faster.
chplfy: 185 or 190 psi sounds pretty high to me for your weight. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe rebound and shock air pressure are related. In other words, the higher pressure you run the more rebound you need. Have you measured your sag at those psi's? With the RPL and the lockout/firm pro pedal setting you can run lower psi/more sag and then flip the lever for steep smooth climbs and not lose the plush downhill performance. If it were me, I'd drop the 10 psi and measure the sag. For my mostly XC kind of riding I've found 13mm a good compromise. I'd also guess lower pressure would allow for a little less rebound as well.
ripn is exactly right. The higher the spring rate, the easier it is for the shock to overcome the rebound damping. In my quest to figure out what makes these shock tick, I established that the average target weight of a rider is approx 10-11 stone. At 12.5 stone I thought I was of average weight. BMI of 24, pretty fit, ride regularly etc.
Apparently not. Fox, RS and Marzocchi all have stock setups that suit the 10-11 stone range. What this means is even if you can add more pre-load (like on my 888's) and get the sag about right, oil weight and level are all wrong. I met a lighter rider with a stock RP23 we were able to establish that he could use 1-2 clicks less rebound than I needed. It is worth adding that running excessive sag and therefore sitting deep into the travel you are sitting in a different part of the spring curve and will therefore experience faster rebounds as the spring rate increases. I'd love to say I worked this out for myself but Avalanche TF Tuned and Stendec-works have all aided my understanding. Interestingly, none of them rate air shocks for anything other than XC
Apparently not. Fox, RS and Marzocchi all have stock setups that suit the 10-11 stone range. What this means is even if you can add more pre-load (like on my 888's) and get the sag about right, oil weight and level are all wrong. I met a lighter rider with a stock RP23 we were able to establish that he could use 1-2 clicks less rebound than I needed. It is worth adding that running excessive sag and therefore sitting deep into the travel you are sitting in a different part of the spring curve and will therefore experience faster rebounds as the spring rate increases. I'd love to say I worked this out for myself but Avalanche TF Tuned and Stendec-works have all aided my understanding. Interestingly, none of them rate air shocks for anything other than XC
2 clicks
I am quite light at about 150 pounds(68Kg), riding weight is probably closer to 75 Kgs. I carry lots of water, too many tools, camera, gorilla pod etc. I find I also need to set the rebound at 2 clicks out from full slow for good performance. Mainly to not get bounced when landing jumps.
Has anybody tried using a non propedal airshock, fox or any other brand. I'm considering one of the x-fusion line that don't have a platform.
http://www.diymtb.com.au/displayItems.asp?cid=8
Andy
I am quite light at about 150 pounds(68Kg), riding weight is probably closer to 75 Kgs. I carry lots of water, too many tools, camera, gorilla pod etc. I find I also need to set the rebound at 2 clicks out from full slow for good performance. Mainly to not get bounced when landing jumps.
Has anybody tried using a non propedal airshock, fox or any other brand. I'm considering one of the x-fusion line that don't have a platform.
http://www.diymtb.com.au/displayItems.asp?cid=8
Andy
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Around 180 lbs with gear and also find myself using 2 clicks from full stiff with my rp23. One click is way too much and 3 isn't enough. I have a suspicion that the valving is not really optimal (maybe more low speed compression, more degressive rebound).
I might go and dyno the rp23 to see what's up. Is there already dyno infomation out there? If I have time later this month, I might figure out a data acquisition setup so I can get shock data during a ride. Fun.
I might go and dyno the rp23 to see what's up. Is there already dyno infomation out there? If I have time later this month, I might figure out a data acquisition setup so I can get shock data during a ride. Fun.
According to TF 2-3 clicks from fully open does absolutely nothing. Due to the design of the rebound needle it on starts to engage as you near fully closed, and the it does so very rapidly and in largish step ( my issue with the RP23). To quote Tim Flukes.. " almost all modern shock need to be run very close to fully closed other wise the rebound circuit is completely inactive" I read from that, that any perceived changes in rebound at the other end (fully open) are probably imaginary... something reinforced by another suspension tuned in the uk who has had these units on a dyno, and dynos don't lie. By "modern" I am assuming that this refers to propedal type units where the platform control is often house in the middle of the rebound needleripn said:
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Regarding Hans reply above, I checked my rebound damping I had adjusted for my fairly new Lyrik coil fork and recently re-tuned PUSH coil Vanilla RC shock specific for the Mojo leverage, for my local mostly very slow singletrack trail with very rocky or rooty to smooth and rolling conditions. I found that both my fork and shock were set nearly 2/3's the way turn in from full soft, 10 of 16 clicks for each.
So I backed out the rebound to 50% in from full soft without changing compression damping and did find smoother more compliant suspension, but more bouncing when it was rocky. So I went to a softer rear coil, from the Push recommended 500# using no preload for my 200 lb ride weight, to 450# with 2.5 turns preload to maintain sag. And staying with the same front coil (soft/yellow, softer than recommended) I softened low speed compression damping adjust from 2 clicks in to full soft to balance the small bump feel with the softer than recommended rear coil. And immediately the bouncing using 50% was eliminated. And my coil spring balance front to rear was much improved too.
I tried another two clicks softer rebound front and rear to be 1/3 turned in as Hans suggested. I found it even more compliant and OK for flatter surface high speed downhill runs but too bouncy when seated pedaling over rocks and ruts.
50% was better than 1/3 in for my fork and shock for my overall riding conditions. After more testing and a few rides I've found 1 click to the softer side of 50% of range front and rear is as soft as I can go to avoid irritating bouncing at lower pedaling speeds.
Before with 2/3 firm adjustment my rebound would allow the suspension to rise with almost no wallow when dropping off a street curb sided rock while seated. Now with just slighlty softer than 50% adjustment in my suspension rises higher and wallows back down to sag once. Any softer and it would wallow back down deeper and cycle up and down a second time.
I can only guess than Hans shock adjustment is firmer earlier in adjustment range and his spring is softer than mine (he is 20 lbs lighter than me) to only use a 1/3 of range turned in from soft setting since he is an expert rider and knows how to tune damping.
Different shocks have different ranges and lighter riders may use softer springs and need less rebound damping to settle the spring rebound. We each need to do our own testing for our own fork and shock and our conditions and ride style. But ideally tune to the softest rebound possible to gain the most bump compliance without bounce or much wallow.
So I backed out the rebound to 50% in from full soft without changing compression damping and did find smoother more compliant suspension, but more bouncing when it was rocky. So I went to a softer rear coil, from the Push recommended 500# using no preload for my 200 lb ride weight, to 450# with 2.5 turns preload to maintain sag. And staying with the same front coil (soft/yellow, softer than recommended) I softened low speed compression damping adjust from 2 clicks in to full soft to balance the small bump feel with the softer than recommended rear coil. And immediately the bouncing using 50% was eliminated. And my coil spring balance front to rear was much improved too.
I tried another two clicks softer rebound front and rear to be 1/3 turned in as Hans suggested. I found it even more compliant and OK for flatter surface high speed downhill runs but too bouncy when seated pedaling over rocks and ruts.
50% was better than 1/3 in for my fork and shock for my overall riding conditions. After more testing and a few rides I've found 1 click to the softer side of 50% of range front and rear is as soft as I can go to avoid irritating bouncing at lower pedaling speeds.
Before with 2/3 firm adjustment my rebound would allow the suspension to rise with almost no wallow when dropping off a street curb sided rock while seated. Now with just slighlty softer than 50% adjustment in my suspension rises higher and wallows back down to sag once. Any softer and it would wallow back down deeper and cycle up and down a second time.
I can only guess than Hans shock adjustment is firmer earlier in adjustment range and his spring is softer than mine (he is 20 lbs lighter than me) to only use a 1/3 of range turned in from soft setting since he is an expert rider and knows how to tune damping.
Different shocks have different ranges and lighter riders may use softer springs and need less rebound damping to settle the spring rebound. We each need to do our own testing for our own fork and shock and our conditions and ride style. But ideally tune to the softest rebound possible to gain the most bump compliance without bounce or much wallow.
Hey Derby,
You clearly know a hell of a lot more about suspension than I do, but I'm a little confused on your terminology. By softer do you you mean faster or slower rebound? Or are you refering to compression damping?
I've played around with my settings quite a bit since my oringinal post and have sped the rebound up slightly. I'm 4 clicks out from full slow (my RPL has 9 clicks of adjustment) right now and that seems to be a good compromise of smooth pedaling and downhill performance. I've tried faster and find I get a fair amount of shock movement while pedaling, even on smooth terrain. Any slower and the rear gets packed out and harsh on fast, rough downhills. Again, I wonder if any one is running considerabley faster than this and what their experience with it is?
You clearly know a hell of a lot more about suspension than I do, but I'm a little confused on your terminology. By softer do you you mean faster or slower rebound? Or are you refering to compression damping?
I've played around with my settings quite a bit since my oringinal post and have sped the rebound up slightly. I'm 4 clicks out from full slow (my RPL has 9 clicks of adjustment) right now and that seems to be a good compromise of smooth pedaling and downhill performance. I've tried faster and find I get a fair amount of shock movement while pedaling, even on smooth terrain. Any slower and the rear gets packed out and harsh on fast, rough downhills. Again, I wonder if any one is running considerabley faster than this and what their experience with it is?
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I was one time admonished for using "faster" and "slower" terms for damping (which I think are more accurate terms too), and told to use "softer" and "firmer" as is written on the Fox adjuster knobs.ripn said:
And unless noted in my prior post I was referring to rebound damping without changing compression damping. BTW, my compression damping is only firmer than zero to 2 clicks in from softest/fastest when riding very pitchy slower rocky or slickrock, and then about 5 or 6 click in from fastest/softest.
With nearly every shock I've tried in 13 years of owning full suspension bikes, setting rebound near 50% of range is usually as fast/soft as I can use without a bouncy effect. One exception was an early year model DHX Air which rebound had to be adjusted to max firm/hard stop, only the firmest 2 or 3 click has any rebound slowing effect on that shock.
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