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Consumer alert: American Classic Hubs and ZTR race rims

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george7117

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have an unbiased consumer report for all of you considering American Classic Hubs for your next mtn bike wheel build:

Did my first 65 mile race this weekend using Stan's ZTR race wheels. Yes, the wheels are light and fast and race superbly. As I was taking things apart today for cleaning, I saw that the Shimano XTR rear cassette had "eaten" into the splines of the aluminum freehub body of the American Classic rear hub, after 5 hours of ride time. I used a torque wrench to set the cassette properly. Still, the splines are going to be unusable within a few months, if not weeks. I contacted American Classic today to discuss a warranty replacement. They said they would not replace the freehub body but would gladly charge me 50 dollars for a new one that has the steel inserts. Fantastic. Basically, they told me I should have known that it would happen with an aluminum freehub. Hmmmm.

So, I am sending this message out to all of you. My recommendation to all weekend warrior racers is to NOT buy ANY American Classic products. Not even the new free hubs with the new steel inserts. Do not allow this company to continue to sell crap to all of us. Don't be taken in like I was. I read the reviews of many here and figured that the problems had been fixed. I was wrong. These hubs are junk and the company should be embarrassed to sell them.

I thought you all would like to know, because I wish I had. I'd rather gain a few grams and have durability of at least ONE race season. American Classic has lost at least one customer for life.
 
#2 ·
Man, thats gonna happen with nearly any alloy driver body. Some are better than others, of course (I have my favorites), but over time this is the reality. Like KB said once (or twice): light, strong, cheap. Pick two.

I wouldnt buy AC hubs but for completely different reasons. How did the race go otherwise?
 
#3 ·
So by that reasoning, lets rule out:

King
I-9
Hope
Dt Swiss/Hügi
Am Classic

They all have AL drive hubs as standard, and several even have the option of Steel shells for durability. And at an additional charge too.

Getting a cassette with a cassette carrrier helps.

Otherwise you can go with a Hadley Ti cassette carrier, or get a shimano hub with a steel cassette carrier.

JmZ
 
#4 ·
george7117 said:
I have an unbiased consumer report for all of you considering American Classic Hubs for your next mtn bike wheel build:

Did my first 65 mile race this weekend using Stan's ZTR race wheels. Yes, the wheels are light and fast and race superbly. As I was taking things apart today for cleaning, I saw that the Shimano XTR rear cassette had "eaten" into the splines of the aluminum freehub body of the American Classic rear hub, after 5 hours of ride time. I used a torque wrench to set the cassette properly. Still, the splines are going to be unusable within a few months, if not weeks. I contacted American Classic today to discuss a warranty replacement. They said they would not replace the freehub body but would gladly charge me 50 dollars for a new one that has the steel inserts. Fantastic. Basically, they told me I should have known that it would happen with an aluminum freehub. Hmmmm.

So, I am sending this message out to all of you. My recommendation to all weekend warrior racers is to NOT buy ANY American Classic products. Not even the new free hubs with the new steel inserts. Do not allow this company to continue to sell crap to all of us. Don't be taken in like I was. I read the reviews of many here and figured that the problems had been fixed. I was wrong. These hubs are junk and the company should be embarrassed to sell them.

I thought you all would like to know, because I wish I had. I'd rather gain a few grams and have durability of at least ONE race season. American Classic has lost at least one customer for life.
Click to expand...
You should have known - it is your responsibility to make sure components you put on your bike are compatible with each other.

This happens with all aluminum free hub bodies.
 
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#5 ·
I'm not going to be as gentle as the other posters.

If you think that an aluminum freehub body is going to be durable, you're a fool.

This has nothing to do with the brand. And most companies would charge you for a part that breaks under normal wear and tear.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Believe me, I can take it. I don't think aluminum freehubs are built to last forever, BUT, any product should last more than one application (did you miss the part about it installed for five hours worth of riding?) If it wasn't meant to last more than once, I would at least think that it would include a warning that said: "Not for use with shimano cassettes ..... etc." Maybe it does and I missed that. Did I miss that?

But hey, I posted so guys like me would know this. I don't recommend buying something that doesn't work. Maybe someone else out there will save themselves some money by reading this. Good luck.

PS-

And for the person that asked about the race ..... went well, overall podium at an early season effort. Things are looking okay so far this year.
 
#7 ·
george7117 said:
I have an unbiased consumer report for all of you considering American Classic Hubs for your next mtn bike wheel build:

Did my first 65 mile race this weekend using Stan's ZTR race wheels. Yes, the wheels are light and fast and race superbly. As I was taking things apart today for cleaning, I saw that the Shimano XTR rear cassette had "eaten" into the splines of the aluminum freehub body of the American Classic rear hub, after 5 hours of ride time. I used a torque wrench to set the cassette properly. Still, the splines are going to be unusable within a few months, if not weeks. I contacted American Classic today to discuss a warranty replacement. They said they would not replace the freehub body but would gladly charge me 50 dollars for a new one that has the steel inserts. Fantastic. Basically, they told me I should have known that it would happen with an aluminum freehub. Hmmmm.

So, I am sending this message out to all of you. My recommendation to all weekend warrior racers is to NOT buy ANY American Classic products. Not even the new free hubs with the new steel inserts. Do not allow this company to continue to sell crap to all of us. Don't be taken in like I was. I read the reviews of many here and figured that the problems had been fixed. I was wrong. These hubs are junk and the company should be embarrassed to sell them.

I thought you all would like to know, because I wish I had. I'd rather gain a few grams and have durability of at least ONE race season. American Classic has lost at least one customer for life.
Click to expand...
American Classic will be glad to know they never have to deal with you again.

My advise to weekend warrior racers: Research the products before you buy. Do not get carried away with excessive cleaning. Do not judge long-term durability after a short break-in time.
 
#9 ·
This is why shimano uses steel and Ti freehub bodies.
 
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#11 ·
shiggy said:
American Classic will be glad to know they never have to deal with you again.

My advise to weekend warrior racers: Research the products before you buy. Do not get carried away with excessive cleaning. Do not judge long-term durability after a short break-in time.
Click to expand...
I can't believe this response is coming from a forum moderator. Do you think in his situation the product would actually get better over time as opposed to his short break in period? How would not cleaning this part have made anything better? More to the point, does not cleaning a part ever make it better? Obviously you have never had to pry a cassette off an aluminum freehub body that is jammed on. You threw the "weekend warrior racer" on there for what purpose? I guess anyone who races cat 1, 2, or 3 should learn from your wisdom. We all can't be pros like yourself. Foolish and trite respones. A moderator...seriously?
 
#12 ·
Actually, I think the new AC aluminium freehub with steel inserts is one of the smartest innovations in years re freehubs. You get the weight of aluminium, the durability of steel, and without the expense of Ti. You should have just paid the $50; its a good deal.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Wavy spacer question.

To answer the spacer the question that a poster had:

No, I did not install the spacer with the cassette. The instructions that came with the hub stated to only use the spacer if there was lateral movement in the cassette AFTER it was torqued to spec. (ie - take it off again and add the spacer if needed) I torqued it to spec and then checked that there was no lateral movement.

To be clear, the damage was in the splines of the freehub in the direction of the chainline, not laterally. (soft metal vs. hard metal) I don't think a spacer would have made a difference, but I may me wrong.

Now, to reiterate why I posted this in the first place (it wasn't to stir up the best in internet forum responses, although we got some entertaining ones). I am the average cycling consumer. I posted so others would know my experience with a product. I agree with the previous poster about the new "fix" with a steel insert being a great idea. But I don't feel American Classic handled the problems with the older hub properly. (Equate it to a car warranty. If Toyota puts a bad camshaft if their engine, and then fixes it the next model year, that is great. But normally they go back and do a recall or warranty fix on the bad camshafts. If not, they develop a bad reputation as a car company. Maybe not the best example, but as simple as I could make it.)

To the moderator person:
Without competitive, uncool Cat 1 weekend warriors like myself, (you know, the ones who clean their bikes occasionally) people who sell hubs, or bikes, or mountain bike tires, wouldn't have jobs. So generally, these people try to give us what we pay for and expect in a product. If they do not, people like me will exercise their rights under a free market society and choose to not be a customer of these companies. These companies will be "happy not to have to deal with us" for awhile, right up until they go out of business.

That's all I'll post on this one. Good luck.
 
#14 ·
OK, I'm gona try and come into this logically and reasonably befor ejumping to any conclusions since you original post has me a bit confused, so here goes.

You say your freehub got eaten up by your cassette, but then you say it was an XTR cassette :skep: which model year? I have to ask as the XT and XTR of old both used an alu spider with the slots/splines groved over about 4-5 cogs width. The new XTRs are broken up into a couple seperate cogs pinned onto several spiders and even with this design I can't see how they'd eat into the freehub as they're either 2 or 3 cogs pinned with the same several cogs wide splines.

As to the cassette eating into the freehub - this as said by nearly every other poster is a common, well known problem and one you accept if you chose to use an alu freehub. I have WTB (AC rebadged) hubs and even using a PG970 cassette for a few hundred miles I never really gouged the freehub so bad it wouldn't work. Since then I have only used an XT cassette and had no issues.

Now, if you'd bought a complete bike from a manufacturer and they had specd the bike as such, then hell yeah, I'd be a bit upset and looking for them to make it right. As id though I'd take AC up on the offer or check you local bike shop or some online retailer and purchase the steel insert freehub and be happy.
 
#16 ·
LyNx said:
You say your freehub got eaten up by your cassette, but then you say it was an XTR cassette :skep: which model year? I have to ask as the XT and XTR of old both used an alu spider with the slots/splines groved over about 4-5 cogs width. The new XTRs are broken up into a couple seperate cogs pinned onto several spiders and even with this design I can't see how they'd eat into the freehub as they're either 2 or 3 cogs pinned with the same several cogs wide splines.
Click to expand...
He was probably hammering in the 2nd or 3rd smallest cog.......ooops!!!

Image
 
#18 ·
I've run several aluminum freehubs and they do gouge, but they don't fail. Once the intial gouging takes place, it usually stops there. It's just makes it a pian to remove the cassette. It usually requires two chain whips to rotate the small cogs out of their grooves, while holding the big cogs in place.
 
#19 ·
George, I'm sure all of us with aluminum cassette carriers have had the loose sprockets (not the ones on the alum carriers) dig into the carrier. We just accept it as part of the quest for "light". Chris King (the maker of my current dug-in hub) offers a steel carrier. I'll take the dig-in before the weight and the aftermarket cost.

I first became aware of this phenomenon with my first alum carrier hub (a CK in about '97 or '98) when I put a titanium (all titanium) cassette on that hub. It had ALL separate cogs and none were on alum carriers. Imagine my surprise when I first took the cassette off! I knew immediately the problem was mine and not CK's.

Fast forward to a recent set of wheels - DuraAce hubbed road wheels - the carrier there is titanium; arguably as light as aluminum and as tough as steel. But at what cost and ultimate "real" benefit besides cosmetic?
 
#20 ·
"common knowledge" = you should reasonably have known or could reasonable have known.

It's a pity but if you had of looked into it more you would have realised (or thought about it).
It would also not hurt the companies to put something with the product. I bet they assume anyone building has enough knowledge to build :)
 
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