Rohloff vs. Derailleur

nicolap99 · Nov 23, 2008

Have a look at the link for some images of both bikes.

I use the Rohloff chain tensioner and chain guide, haven't had the chain fall off once, it must be doing its job as the inner plates on the chain guide are a little scuffed.

Using a normal (XT) quick release on the Rohloff, no problems at all.

http://my.opera.com/nicolap99/albums/show.dml?id=584360

http://my.opera.com/nicolap99/albums/show.dml?id=479806

The only thing I would recommend is that you use Shimano SP41 outer gear cable with XTR inner gear cables to shift with. The Rohloff cables are troublesome due to the cable liner being pulled into the twist grip.

I've even tried Shimano brake outer with the XTR inners,but the gear cable option is much smoother.

krolik · Nov 23, 2008

nicolap99 said:
Have a look at the link for some images of both bikes.

I use the Rohloff chain tensioner and chain guide, haven't had the chain fall off once, it must be doing its job as the inner plates on the chain guide are a little scuffed.

Using a normal (XT) quick release on the Rohloff, no problems at all.

http://my.opera.com/nicolap99/albums/show.dml?id=584360

http://my.opera.com/nicolap99/albums/show.dml?id=479806

The only thing I would recommend is that you use Shimano SP41 outer gear cable with XTR inner gear cables to shift with. The Rohloff cables are troublesome due to the cable liner being pulled into the twist grip.

I've even tried Shimano brake outer with the XTR inners,but the gear cable option is much smoother.

Thanks.
I have no idea what type of riding you do with it though. I do some heavier stuff too and I'd normaly go with bolt-on anytime. Do you by any chance know what the weight diff is between CC and TS on same type of hub? XT QRs are quite strong btw.

nicolap99 · Nov 23, 2008

I don't seek out to take off at every single opportunity, but I will get a little air on the natural flow of the trail (but nothing really hardcore, too old for that

I don't know the weigh difference between the two versions, but I think it would be negligible, should be some info on the Rohloff site though.

krolik · Nov 23, 2008

I couldn't find it:/
The rear DH tensioner seems to have quite a strong spring, doesn't it? The thing that worries me is that this spring is so open to mud - did you have anny issues of this sort?
I also have to skip the speedbone but it will require some filing on the brake adapter to make it work. I couldn't use it because on newer SC frames, the bolt heads are hidden in the mount which would make the speedbone too far out. Look:

Eh, I will make it all work though.

nicolap99 · Nov 23, 2008

No issues with mud and grime, and there's plenty of abrasive grime where I normally ride.

Have a search for the Money Bone to replace the torque arm / speedbone , its amuch neater solution for frames that don't have Rohloff specific dropouts.

Of course, you could always buy a Nicolai........

itsdoable · Nov 24, 2008

krolik said:
I also have to skip the speedbone but it will require some filing on the brake adapter to make it work. I couldn't use it because on newer SC frames, the bolt heads are hidden in the mount which would make the speedbone too far out.

I would use a MonkeyBone on that instead of a speedbone (as nicolap99 mentioned).

I have both TS and CC (both DB) hubs, but I never weighted them prior to building the wheel. The only difference is the solid axle, which is longer, and the cap nuts. I'm sure it's at least 100g heavier, but with the overall weight of the Rohloff, you won't notice it.

The TS was designed for track mounts or semi-horizontal slots (campy ones). That's what I used it on originally. They also hold better on odd OEM2 torque arm configurations where the torque on the arm has a tendency to push the axle out of the dropout. The CC with a decent QR skewer hold fine for all other applications, including DH according to Rohloff. However, there's no reason not to use a TS version for more security if it fits. The only time I've had issues with the TS hub is with a hooded dropout, you need a socket head to access the nut, which is a pain to carry (my solution was to use coupling nuts).

krolik · Nov 24, 2008

itsdoable said:
I would use a MonkeyBone on that instead of a speedbone (as nicolap99 mentioned).

I have both TS and CC (both DB) hubs, but I never weighted them prior to building the wheel. The only difference is the solid axle, which is longer, and the cap nuts. I'm sure it's at least 100g heavier, but with the overall weight of the Rohloff, you won't notice it.

The TS was designed for track mounts or semi-horizontal slots (campy ones). That's what I used it on originally. They also hold better on odd OEM2 torque arm configurations where the torque on the arm has a tendency to push the axle out of the dropout. The CC with a decent QR skewer hold fine for all other applications, including DH according to Rohloff. However, there's no reason not to use a TS version for more security if it fits. The only time I've had issues with the TS hub is with a hooded dropout, you need a socket head to access the nut, which is a pain to carry (my solution was to use coupling nuts).

this is EXACTLY what I have planned on the Hope adapter

I'd prefer a stock item but it says on their website there's only a version for 160mm rotor

no go for me:nono:
I wonder how much the speedbone weighs alone.
I wish the CC axle was somewhat larger in diameter, so that I could drill it to adopt a DT 10mm RWS TB. No problem on the rotor side but I'd be scared to risk drilling thru the hub without confirmation

Boyonabyke · Dec 4, 2008

bsdc said:
I agree with every word, especially the last paragraph.

If you are truly interested in a Rohloff you really have to give it some time. It's not something you are likely to fall in love with from the start. When I first got on mine, I thought I had made a very expensive mistake. You can read about it here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=389339

As for difficult shifts on an uphill switchback, that's one of the places where a Rohloff really shines. If you can get over the mental obstacle of hesitating your pedal stroke for an instant while you shift, you'll find that what you get in return is an immediate gear shift. A Rohloff gear shift is actually much faster than a derailleur once you get the hang of it. You don't have to crank out a stroke or two waiting for the new gear to fully engage. A Rohloff does have some down sides, but I find difficult uphill shifts are actually easier on a Rohloff once you learn to shift it.

I can shift a derailleur under light load while still pedaling and maintain forward momentum. I can't do that on my Rohloff, I have to hesitate or stop, then reingage the freewheel with a clunk. There isn't time for that when you are straining going up a 20 to 25% grade single track with switchbacks. To have a Rohloff that then freewheels unexpectedly when shifted into 4th gear, due to defective workmanship... Let's just say my confidence is shaken in the Rohloff, I won't go back. I've never had that kind of issue with SRAM drive train and DTSwiss hubs, ever, not shifting. I can't afford it when I'm climbing on on steep single track with extreme exposure in the San Gabriels. There is no margin for error. Unless you've ridden a mining footpath up to the mines that was layed out in the late 1800's here, you won't understand. The Rohloff doesn't cut it here.

bsdc · Dec 5, 2008

RandyBoy,

You've got limited experience with a used Rohloff, that didn't shift well, that you bought off Ebay. You've got a chip on your shoulder because Rohloff, like many other manufacturers, only warranties their product to the original owner.

pursuiter · Dec 5, 2008

RandyBoy said:
...Unless you've ridden a mining footpath up to the mines that was layed out in the late 1800's here, you won't understand. The Rohloff doesn't cut it here.

RB, you are starting to sound like a jilted woman, very bitter :eekster:

vikb · Dec 5, 2008

He's got a serious case of sour grapes.

I doubt any broken gear would be much fun on a steep technical climb. IGH, derailleur, fixed/SS, SRAM, Shimano, Rohloff....whatever. It helps to ride a bike in good working order.

itsdoable · Dec 5, 2008

bsdc said:
RandyBoy ... You've got a chip on your shoulder because Rohloff, like many other manufacturers, only warranties their product to the original owner.

From reading all the threads, my impression is that Rohloff did warrentee the hub, however they did not pay for the shipping and consumables used to debug the problem. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the impression I got.

If I had bought the hub new from a store, I'd be pissed too. If I had bought it off eBay, I would have suspected that the previous owner was dumping something he broke, or was a lemon.

And comparing a defective geared hub to a perfectly working dérailleur is hardly reasonable.

bsdc · Dec 5, 2008

itsdoable said:
From reading all the threads, my impression is that Rohloff did warrentee the hub, however they did not pay for the shipping and consumables used to debug the problem. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the impression I got.

If I had bought the hub new from a store, I'd be pissed too. If I had bought it off eBay, I would have suspected that the previous owner was dumping something he broke, or was a lemon.

And comparing a defective geared hub to a perfectly working dérailleur is hardly reasonable.

I'm not sure any of us are totally clear on the whole story of Randyboys hub. It took an astute reader to reveal, through information on another thread, that Randyboy was having problems with a used hub he bought off Ebay. Either way it doesn't matter. He's got limited experience on a hub that didn't shift well and he's upset at Rohloff because it cost him money to fix it. Strangely, I don't think he's expressed any problems with the person that sold him the used hub. I agree with you that the guy probabaly knew there was a problem and dumped it off on him. When everyone didn't jump on his side with his complaint against Rohloff he decided he'd chime in on Rohloff threads and tell us all how bad it shifts.

itsdoable · Dec 5, 2008

I don't have a problem with RandyBoy expressing his views, that's what this forum is for, good or bad views, weither I agree or not.

My first Rohloff freewheeled when I took it out below -5C, and when that happens on a steep technical climb and you are stomping on the power after a shift, well... I'm sure it was comical to watch, but I run a pad on the stem now. Apparently I can ride my bike downhill backwards with my head touching the front wheel.

Anyways I know what that is like, and why someone would be pissed. However, I contacted Rohloff and discovered I needed to winterize the oil in the hub, something I didn't know then. It wasn't the hub's failure, it was my failure to know the limits of the equipment, and the necessary service required. Rohloff even offered to check over the hub to make sure it was OK and performing to spec, which I eventually did do, but for another reason. They did not offer to pay for shipping, and I'm OK with that (if I had worked though an lbs, they would have payed for shipping). Now I know the performance envelope of each hub I own, and have had no more unexpected incidences.

The main thing I wanted to point out about RandyBoy's post was that comparing a defective product purchased on eBay, to working ones is simply not reasonable. The Rohloff is not for everyone, and I know several people who can't stand it.

bsdc · Dec 5, 2008

itsdoable said:
I don't have a problem with RandyBoy expressing his views, that's what this forum is for, good or bad views, weither I agree or not.

My first Rohloff freewheeled when I took it out below -5C, and when that happens on a steep technical climb and you are stomping on the power after a shift, well... I'm sure it was comical to watch, but I run a pad on the stem now. Apparently I can ride my bike downhill backwards with my head touching the front wheel.

Anyways I know what that is like, and why someone would be pissed. However, I contacted Rohloff and discovered I needed to winterize the oil in the hub, something I didn't know then. It wasn't the hub's failure, it was my failure to know the limits of the equipment, and the necessary service required. Rohloff even offered to check over the hub to make sure it was OK and performing to spec, which I eventually did do, but for another reason. They did not offer to pay for shipping, and I'm OK with that (if I had worked though an lbs, they would have payed for shipping). Now I know the performance envelope of each hub I own, and have had no more unexpected incidences.

The main thing I wanted to point out about RandyBoy's post was that comparing a defective product purchased on eBay, to working ones is simply not reasonable. The Rohloff is not for everyone, and I know several people who can't stand it.

I have a problem with someone expressing opinions on issues with products they have little experience with. If I buy a used fork off Ebay, ride it a few times, find out it has a problem, get upset because the manufacturer won't fix it for free, and then sell it, that doesn't put me in a position to provide a reasonable product review for that fork.

The only useful information Randyboy has provided is that Rohloff doesn't provide 5 star service to second owners of used hubs. From what I've read Rohloff does provide 4 star service to original owners.

The Rohloff Speedhub is FAR from perfect. There is a bit of compromise you must endure to enjoy some of the perks of a Rohloff. I think most Rohloff owners I've read reviews from have been pretty clear about the ups and downs of going with a Speedhub. It's certainly not for everyone. It's certainly not better than a derailleur. It's just different. In some ways a derailleur is better.

I strongly encourage anyone thinking of buying a Rohloff to read as many experienced reviews as possible and really consider if going with a Speedhub is right for you. Riding a Rohloff is like dating a high maintenance, chubby nymphomaniac. Yea, she costs a bit of money and she's a little heavy, but once you get to know her, she can be quite fun.

krolik · Dec 5, 2008

bsdc said:
I strongly encourage anyone thinking of buying a Rohloff to read as many experienced reviews as possible and really consider if going with a Speedhub is right for you. Riding a Rohloff is like dating a high maintenance, chubby nymphomaniac. Yea, she costs a bit of money and she's a little heavy, but once you get to know her, she can be quite fun.

nice comparison

I'm in that exactly point. I made some tests with weight added to my current rear hub, I've checked and thought over all aspects of chain tension in my fs case, I've checked best available deals.
I still wonder if I will be totaly happy with it but somehow I know I have to see for myself.

bsdc · Dec 5, 2008

krolik said:
nice comparison
I'm in that exactly point. I made some tests with weight added to my current rear hub, I've checked and thought over all aspects of chain tension in my fs case, I've checked best available deals.
I still wonder if I will be totaly happy with it but somehow I know I have to see for myself.

I would say the weight is negligable while riding. I really only notice it when I load my bike on the car rack and when I put it on the scale. When going back and forth between the Rohloff and derailleur bikes I don't recall noticing the weight.

I'm pretty sure you'll need a tensioner for a FS bike unless you get a Lenz Milk Money or something like that.

I'm all for finding deals but I've found the added service of a good local bike shop can sometimes be worth the small premium one might pay. In the case of my Rohloff build, I went through a bike shop, got the Rohloff cheaper than internet prices and they put it together for me, making a bit of money off the Rohloff and the other components I bought.

A Rohloff is something to experience. I really think the biggest obsticle to get over is the grinding. In some gears it feels like you're pedaling through sand in the hub. If you believe your sensation, you'll think the Rohloff is slowing you down and you'll probably never like the hub. If you believe the research, you'll think it's not slowing you down and you'll grow to like the hub. Since I have access to a nearly identicle derailleured bike, I plan on doing my own study on the issue some day. Still, like you said, you have to try it for yourself.

krolik · Dec 6, 2008

bsdc said:
I would say the weight is negligable while riding. I really only notice it when I load my bike on the car rack and when I put it on the scale. When going back and forth between the Rohloff and derailleur bikes I don't recall noticing the weight.

I'm pretty sure you'll need a tensioner for a FS bike unless you get a Lenz Milk Money or something like that.

I'm all for finding deals but I've found the added service of a good local bike shop can sometimes be worth the small premium one might pay. In the case of my Rohloff build, I went through a bike shop, got the Rohloff cheaper than internet prices and they put it together for me, making a bit of money off the Rohloff and the other components I bought.

A Rohloff is something to experience. I really think the biggest obsticle to get over is the grinding. In some gears it feels like you're pedaling through sand in the hub. If you believe your sensation, you'll think the Rohloff is slowing you down and you'll probably never like the hub. If you believe the research, you'll think it's not slowing you down and you'll grow to like the hub. Since I have access to a nearly identicle derailleured bike, I plan on doing my own study on the issue some day. Still, like you said, you have to try it for yourself.

I don't care about the overall weight increase. It's the place you have the extra weight in that worries me. Still - sth that can be fixed with MY shock setup (no idea of other designs)
---------------------
I am going this way: E13 LG1 2009 & Blackspire MonoVeloce 36t plus a rohloff dh tensioner or something like the singleator in the back plus the rohloff dh chainguide ring behind the 16t cog. I thought about modifying the lower pulley of the LG1 to be a tensioner at the front chainring but - after many sleepless nights - I will feel safer when sth guides the chain next to the cog. Plus there's no space to do it on the new Nomad if you want the tensioner to be well protected.
--------------------------------
As for price/shop
I live in Poland. Let me do the numbers in my currency:
Polish LBS - 5300PLN ($1710)
German LBS - 3700PLN ($1180)
dofference is 1600PLN = $530...
plus I live near the german border, so I can buy and service there.
Prices are for a set w/o disc w/o discount and i hope to squeez something better out of them after christmass

bsdc · Dec 6, 2008

krolik said:
I don't care about the overall weight increase. It's the place you have the extra weight in that worries me. Still - sth that can be fixed with MY shock setup (no idea of other designs)
---------------------
I am going this way: E13 LG1 2009 & Blackspire MonoVeloce 36t plus a rohloff dh tensioner or something like the singleator in the back plus the rohloff dh chainguide ring behind the 16t cog. I thought about modifying the lower pulley of the LG1 to be a tensioner at the front chainring but - after many sleepless nights - I will feel safer when sth guides the chain next to the cog. Plus there's no space to do it on the new Nomad if you want the tensioner to be well protected.
--------------------------------
As for price/shop
I live in Poland. Let me do the numbers in my currency:
Polish LBS - 5300PLN ($1710)
German LBS - 3700PLN ($1180)
dofference is 1600PLN = $530...
plus I live near the german border, so I can buy and service there.
Prices are for a set w/o disc w/o discount and i hope to squeez something better out of them after christmass

I didn't notice any change in rear suspension performance when I added the Rohloff. I don't recall making any changes to the shock. I remember reading of people speculating on rear suspension performance changes with a heavier hub, but I don't remember anyone noting any significant problems. I think some said they just adjusted the shock pressure.

I use a Rohloff chain tensioner and no chain guide with not one dropped chain in a year of riding. I do like the idea of using a chain tensioner at the bottom bracket, but haven't bothered with it.

It's amazing how different the price is with crossing the border to Germany. I think I paid about $1180 for my hub hear in the US at a local bike shop. With the wheel build, chainring, chain tensioner, and Ergon levers, it was closer to $1800.

krolik · Dec 6, 2008

It is amazing indeed.
Plus it took our polish distr THREE WEEKS to calculate the price:madman:
I mean Poland is a growing market but if our distr is waiting for someone to order 10speedhubs at a time and skips people like me than he ain't going to make it to the shore.

As for the tensioner, I was eager to try the roox rollercoaster at the bottom bracket but the 2nd gen VPP makes it useless because it would be very low and you'd hit it every time you go over an obstacle using your bashring. It is a perfect solution for a Heckler or a Bullit or any other elevated chainstay design.

As for impact on the suspension, I did notice (with unchanged shock settings) some easier 'packing up' of the rear when going over a repeated series of obstacles at high speed. It is easy to tune it to be right though.

I still haven't had a chance to test ride any speedhub equipped bike though:/ And it ain't going to happen unless I go to Germany - our distr didn't sell even one hub in two years, not to mention owning a test bike

Rohloff vs. Derailleur

nicolap99

krolik

nicolap99

krolik

nicolap99

itsdoable

krolik

Boyonabyke

bsdc

pursuiter

vikb

itsdoable

bsdc

itsdoable

bsdc

krolik

bsdc

krolik

bsdc

krolik

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