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Rohloff vs. Derailleur

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bsdc

· Rohloff
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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I converted my GF HiFi 29 to Rohloff about 9 months ago. After cracking the frame a few weeks ago, I took it in for warranty repair. The bike shop was kind enough to loan me a HiFi 29 from their rentals. This gave me two weeks to try out a derailleur on almost the same bike.

At first, I thought I was in heaven. I slowly pedaled away from my car heading up hill in the lowest gear. Wow! It was sooo smooooth. As I continued on, I marveled at the relatively crisp, effortless shifting as my thumb gently clicked back and forth between gears. As I continued up the hill, I was already planning how I was going to convert my bike back to a traditional derailleur drivetrain and sell my Rohloff hub, then crrrrrck, crrrrrck, crrrrk ...

As the trail leveled out a little and I shifted further into the cassette, I found a gear that wasn't quite in tune. I got out of this gear by moving into the middle ring. As I continued to ride I experienced more of this annoying out of tune gear, along with a couple of dropped chains, some slipping, ghost shifts, FD rub, etc.

A couple of miles up the trail, I got frustrated enough to tune up the drivetrain and things got a little better. When I got home a did a more thorough job of cleaning and tuning the drivetrain and subsequent rides got better but still not trouble free.

A couple of weeks later, I got my bike back and was looking forward to getting back with my Rohloff. As I pedaled away from the car up the same hill, there was that familiar grind in the lower gears. Shifting required that brief hesitation in pedaling and the shifter felt loose and clunky. Beyond that it was rock solid and 100% reliable.

In the end, I found I do appreciate the light, crisp feel of a derailleur drivetrain and I can see how many would prefer it. A well tuned derailleur system is hard to beat in many ways. For me, I prefer the Rohloff. It's a little clunky but rock solid. I don't want to fiddle with my bike at home or on the trail. I want to check the tire pressure and ride.
 
#3 ·
Mechs are great when set up well, and you are only riding in dry dusty conditions. But when thick clay like mud is about systems like the Rohloff will come into their own.

I pine for the day when I can afford one! The weather this year in the UK has been pretty much consistent rain. Almost every ride I have been on this year has resulted in a jammed up front and rear mech halfway through the ride. I'm also fed up of how awkward and time consuming it is to clean out a traditional drivetrain compared to what it would be like with a Rohloff.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I have to agree with Simon. It's dry and dusty here in So Cal. Mud isn't an issue. I have a Rohloff DB and a DT Swiss 440 Freeride hub. I've no problems with keeping the derailleur tuned and shifting perfectly and smooth. All I did was read SRAMS directions on the website on how to tune their derailleur, and mine has been flawless ever since. I did have some problems with the Rohloff shifting from 3rd to 4th and freewheeling dangerously on climbs. Rohloff fixed it, put in a brand new gearbox in my hub, on 11-11-08 and now it's going to sit unused, up for sale. I am 50 years old, 6'5" and 215 pounds. I ride for fun and pretty slow these days. To me, the DT Swiss 440 Freeride feels better for 99.9% of my applications and riding needs here in Southern California. For someone in the snow belt or Northern tier states that rides year round... a Rohloff is probably a great drive train system, when they are working right, they are about bomb proof. But you'll pay a price meshing all those gears in a bath of viscous gear oil in lost effciency. I've done enough climbs on both a Rohloff and a the 440 Freeride here in Southern California clocked on my GPS, same tires, same tube, and it indeed takes me 10 to 12% longe in my finish times to get up the same grade. The Rohloff is a drag spinning all those internal gears, compared to a 9 speed cassette.
 
#5 ·
I rode the roloff for the 1st time this weekend. It was on a LiteSpeed Obed 29r. It was by far the worst drivetrain item I have ever ridden. It failed to shift 75% of the time. It was hard to get used to with the grip shift. I was not impressed with it all. I can see that it would be great for fire roads or anything that does not have tight technical single track. I hated every minute of the ride with the thing. I tried to have a good attitude about it but after a few miles of it not shifting when I needed it to, I was over it. If the bike had not been a demo from the bike shop there would be a expensive hub laying on the trail. I would not be happy if I had spent that kind of money on it. I will take my xtr anyday.

*disclaimer*
This is only my opinion and does not have much value.

N.
 
#7 ·
There is a technique to it, just as there is for derailleur gears. If you've grown up with the der. you'll assume it's the natural way to shift gears, but it still has to be learnt in the first place.
 
#8 ·
I'm not sure why folks have all these mysterious problems with derailleurs. I have tuned both SRAM and Shimano drivetrains and though I have spent up to 2 hours getting them just right, once set, they perform wonderfully. Yes, I know that certain conditions make them all but unusable, and maybe a Rohloff would make more sense in those extremes but for a majority of riding conditions, I just can't see dealing with the concentrated weight and cost!

Whenever someone speaks about bad shifting Rohloffs, inevitably somebody will chime in with shifting techniques. I find it's the same thing with derailleurs and a cassette <I know, duh!>. I split the cassette into thirds and shift into the appropriate ring when shifting into the next 1/3 set of cogs...probably like most folks who understand the limitations of the system.

However, I see a *ton* of people riding around cross-chained with their chains popping and the bottom tensioner wheel chatttering away on an obviously neglected system and I'm pretty sure they must think derailluers suck.

After riding a buddies bike with a Rohloff...I loved it, but *certainly* not enough to actually spend the $1400 on one...ouch!
 
#9 ·
Konish said:
...I have tuned both SRAM and Shimano drivetrains and though I have spent up to 2 hours getting them just right, once set, they perform wonderfully. Yes, I know that certain conditions make them all but unusable, ...I loved it, but *certainly* not enough to actually spend the $1400 on one...ouch!
Click to expand...
I see why you love derailliuers, those silly IGH'ers, what are they thinking :p
 
#10 ·
i tried and tried to shift it correctly but with steep climbs and lots of switch backs there is only so much you can do. like i said it was great for the fire roads going to the trails. it was not great for tight steep single track.
 
#11 ·
I recently converted over about 8 months ago and remembered the same thing trying to shift the rohloff on steep climbs. I had a lot of difficulties my first couple of rides from getting use to the grip shifter and the difference in shifting from a derailleur. Once you get the hang of it, which takes at least several rides, than it is fine and crisp. The shift from 8-7 is the biggest obstacle though.
 
#12 ·
yoohoo said:
i tried and tried to shift it correctly but with steep climbs and lots of switch backs there is only so much you can do. like i said it was great for the fire roads going to the trails. it was not great for tight steep single track.
Click to expand...
I ride derailleur bikes and a Rohloff bike - the shifting is different for sure.

To make a derailleur bike shift well you learn a set of skills. Lots of people blow shifts with derailleurs and have all sorts of issues - while others don't. The people that don't have learned how to shift and pedal to get their bike to work optimally for them.

The same goes with a Rohloff. You need to learn a new set of skills to make it work optimally for you. Once you get the hang of it you'll be cruising up and down the gears on a Rohloff without a problem, but your first ride might be ugly.

If you really think a Rohloff is something you'd be interested in I'd say it's worth spending some time figuring out the shifting. If you are happy with derailleurs then why bother? Stick with what you know.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
vikb said:
I ride derailleur bikes and a Rohloff bike - the shifting is different for sure.

To make a derailleur bike shift well you learn a set of skills. Lots of people blow shifts with dérailleurs and have all sorts of issues - while others don't. The people that don't have learned how to shift and pedal to get their bike to work optimally for them.

The same goes with a Rohloff. You need to learn a new set of skills to make it work optimally for you. Once you get the hang of it you'll be cruising up and down the gears on a Rohloff without a problem, but your first ride might be ugly.

If you really think a Rohloff is something you'd be interested in I'd say it's worth spending some time figuring out the shifting. If you are happy with dérailleurs then why bother? Stick with what you know.
Click to expand...
I agree with every word, especially the last paragraph.

If you are truly interested in a Rohloff you really have to give it some time. It's not something you are likely to fall in love with from the start. When I first got on mine, I thought I had made a very expensive mistake. You can read about it here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=389339

The point of this thread is that I was still somewhat questioning my Rohloff when I went back to a derailleur. For me, a Rohloff just barely edges out a derailleur and I can see why some would prefer a derailleur. Like a lot of people, I'm finding I like my Rohloff more and more each ride. It seems like both me and the Rohloff are getting smoother with the miles.

As for difficult shifts on an uphill switchback, that's one of the places where a Rohloff really shines. If you can get over the mental obstacle of hesitating your pedal stroke for an instant while you shift, you'll find that what you get in return is an immediate gear shift. A Rohloff gear shift is actually much faster than a derailleur once you get the hang of it. You don't have to crank out a stroke or two waiting for the new gear to fully engage. A Rohloff does have some down sides, but I find difficult uphill shifts are actually easier on a Rohloff once you learn to shift it.
 
#14 ·
pursuiter said:
I see why you love derailliuers, those silly IGH'ers, what are they thinking :p
Click to expand...
Not sure if that compares to the, no kidding, weeks it took my buddy to finally get everything he needed to make his Rohloff work and then the 2 hours it took to install and adjust. Oh, I almost forgot the 4 weeks it took to have his wheel built with the Rohloff in the first place. :thumbsup:

To be sure an IGH is on the agenda for another build, but I'm thinking something more in line with an SRAM or Shimano hub. My comment was aimed more at these folks that have *every* derailluer problem known to exist with the system on a single ride...I just don't think getting derailleurs to work well is the leap of faith that some seem to make it.:D
 
#15 · (Edited)
Konish said:
Oh, I almost forgot the 4 weeks it took to have his wheel built with the Rohloff in the first place.
Click to expand...
4 weeks? Building a Rohloff wheel is no different than building a wheel with a normal rear hub. Aside from the hub itself there are no specialized parts needed. What would take weeks?...:confused:

Konish said:
his Rohloff work and then the 2 hours it took to install and adjust.
Click to expand...
Installing and cabling a derailleur setup can take as long as a Rohloff. I installed my Rohloff and I've built derailleur bikes. I don't see either as being crushingly faster.

Konish said:
To be sure an IGH is on the agenda for another build, but I'm thinking something more in line with an SRAM or Shimano hub. My comment was aimed more at these folks that have *every* derailluer problem known to exist with the system on a single ride...I just don't think getting derailleurs to work well is the leap of faith that some seem to make it.:D
Click to expand...
I agree that derailleurs work well for a lot of people a lot of the time. If Rohloff's didn't exist it isn't like we couldn't ride our bikes or life as we know it would end. I've ridden thousands of kms of trails using derailleurs with a smile on my face.

I do think Rohloffs offer some advantages over derailleurs, but those advantages only make sense to some riders. You'll never go for a ride and see 20 Rohloffs cruising your local trails.
 
#16 ·
I'm not here to talk anyone out of dérailleurs, but the one thing I really like about the Rohloff is the instant shift, and the ability to downshift on a steep technical climb instantly, anywhere on the climb, something that you can't easily do with dérailleurs.

When you learn to shift dérailleurs efficiently, you pre-shift at the trigger, just before you let up on the pedal, and when done right, the shift is fast and clean. On a Rohloff there is no pre-shift, if the shifter clicks, you are now in that gear. Period. If you are use to dérailleur pre-shifting, it simply does not work with the Rohloff - the shifter will not move (unless you had pre-governator Schwarzenegger arms) until you let up on the pedal. Some people adapt to the new timing, some people never do - we have someone who tried for several months, and is much happier back on her dérailleur.

Ever try to explain a non-linear gear system to someone to prevent cross-chaining - I think a pretty big portion of our population falls into the "I give up" category.
 
#17 ·
I've got two off road bikes, that are pretty identical except for the drive chain.

Both are Nicolai Helius CC, one with conventional gearing (Mix of XT and XTR) 9 speed 11-32 cassette. The other Helius is Rohloff Speedhub specific.

I prefer to ride the Rohloff equipped bike, but there are some advantages / disadvantages.

The advantages of the Rohloff bike.
Very dependable gear change, no mis shifts or chain slap / chain falling off over very rough ground.
Reduced maintenance.
Easy to keep clean.
Always works like brand new without any adjustment.
Quiet drive chain

The advantages of the geared Helius
Lighter total bike weight, but not so much that you'd really notice.
Rapid fire shifters seem to be more intuitive than the Rohloff twist grip.
Not much maintenance if the weather is dry.

Overall I prefer the Rohloff bike, and have considered breaking the geared bike and selling most parts on Ebay, but the luxury of a spare backup bike is a good option.
 
#18 ·
nicolap99 said:
I've got two off road bikes, that are pretty identical except for the drive chain.

Both are Nicolai Helius CC, one with conventional gearing (Mix of XT and XTR) 9 speed 11-32 cassette. The other Helius is Rohloff Speedhub specific.

I prefer to ride the Rohloff equipped bike, but there are some advantages / disadvantages.

The advantages of the Rohloff bike.
Very dependable gear change, no mis shifts or chain slap / chain falling off over very rough ground.
Reduced maintenance.
Easy to keep clean.
Always works like brand new without any adjustment.
Quiet drive chain

The advantages of the geared Helius
Lighter total bike weight, but not so much that you'd really notice.
Rapid fire shifters seem to be more intuitive than the Rohloff twist grip.
Not much maintenance if the weather is dry.

Overall I prefer the Rohloff bike, and have considered breaking the geared bike and selling most parts on Ebay, but the luxury of a spare backup bike is a good option.
Click to expand...
So if you have two identical FS bikes, you are the man to ask this question:
all other things aside, is there a difference between the two in how the rear reacts to bumps/impacts? Do you feel the much increased rear hub weight?
thanks in advance
 
#19 ·
Umm, yep there is a difference, I find descending better on the Rohloff. The added weight seems to help keep the back end in control more. There's less a the light back end feel that I get with the conventional geared bike.

Climbing on the Rohloff is sometimes a little more prone to drag, but I'm being a little critical here, the more miles I've put on the Rohloff the less noticeable its become.

Only really notice the weight when I have to lift the bike up.

You've probably gathered that all things being equal I prefer the Rohloff. The only improvement to be made on the Rohloff would be the long awaited trigger shifter.
 
#20 ·
nicolap99 said:
Umm, yep there is a difference, I find descending better on the Rohloff. The added weight seems to help keep the back end in control more. There's less a the light back end feel that I get with the conventional geared bike.

Climbing on the Rohloff is sometimes a little more prone to drag, but I'm being a little critical here, the more miles I've put on the Rohloff the less noticeable its become.

Only really notice the weight when I have to lift the bike up.

You've probably gathered that all things being equal I prefer the Rohloff. The only improvement to be made on the Rohloff would be the long awaited trigger shifter.
Click to expand...
Thanks.
I am preparing to build a 09 SC Nomad on a rohloff hub and I am testing right now the added weight (1kg) on the rear hub on my SC LT2. The two bikes are quite simmilar (2nd gen vpp) and the more I ride it the more I am surprised how little the difference is.
What is your setup on that helius in terms of chain tensioners/guides?
I wanted to skip the rear tensioner (enough weight there already) in favor of a custom made MRP MiniG with a surly singleator as a bottom pulley but the more I think of it, the more I think it'd be safer to have sth holding the chain under the rear cog. So probably MiniG and rohloff DH tensioner in the end:/
edit: you have CC or TS axle? I am a tad affraid of running a quick release on such a heavy hub:/
 
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