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-Devil- said:
but yeah i know i have changed as well ...
All of us change and grow in relationships, it's just how… is it in healthy or unhealthy ways. Do we grow and change together or apart?

I am truly sorry to hear of the problems in your marriage. I can sympathize. I was married just shy of 6 years and things went to hell. After the birth of our daughter I started getting back into shape, eating right and so on. He b!tched at me, complained constantly that I was never home (I was working), was constantly accusing me of cheating, made similar comments to your wife's and with the similar actions (i.e. throwing out my healthy food -wtf!?)

In the end, we could not make it work out. Frankly, I was sick and f'in tired of listening and trying to make things work. It was only after I first walked out that he wanted to try, but that lasted a short time. In the end I found out he had been having an affair the last year or so of our marriage.
Okkkkay, so that sucked. :madman:

When it comes to women, actions like this (as others have said) are a major red flag. Something is wrong, and in a very bad way! It's like a woman who has had long hair for years suddenly cutting it all off and changing the color. Women don't just do drastic sh!t for no reason… there is always an underlying reason. Problem is, none of us here can tell you what the problem is. Only your wife can tell you.

If all attempted forms of communication have currently failed, it's time to change the approach. I'll suggest what others have already said; it's time to find a marriage counselor. Just because you as a couple go to see one doesn't mean your marriage is on the rocks, it just means that one or both of you are missing the signals of communication.

Others on here have said leave her... only you can make that decision. I know how difficult it is to end a marriage. It sucks; it's not a portion of our lives... It IS our life and to start all over is not an easy thing.
 
-Devil- said:
well the key word in that sentance was 'when she has a job' ... she keeps one less then a year and then either gets fired or quits because she doesn't like the hours they want her to work ... but a majority of her money would go to cigarettes, snack / junk food, gas, eating out and then a little bit onto the farm animals (which belong to her mother except for one of the horses which is hers)

as for the guidance part, if she would go it may help some ... but i doubt she would ever go ... esp to a church (that is another conversation on it's own)

yeah i know, but i keep hoping there is a detour before the denial changes to something else.
This is not in response to this particular quoted part, but there is a lot more going on than the MTB piece. If your wife is unwilling to move into a healther lifestyle with you. Then it is highly unlikely you will not make it another 10 or even 5. Get some counseling. Sounds like your wife needs to see someone on her own before you get into the marriage counseling bit.

I have been married for 16 years and been going through some of the same crap as you from about the 10 year mark. I also have a 12 and a 9 year old. In another 10 years my wife will certainly be a mountain biker.

She might even be my current wife ;)
 
watch, don't interpret.

1 does she really throw away all of your healthy food? (is your food healthy?)
2 does she always react negatively to your hobbies?
3 does she only sit in front of the tv ?

ask her what she likes to do. find out what these things have in common.
example: 1. go partying with you 2.drinking till both of you pass out 3.sit in front of the tv together 4.spending sunday morning together ----> you + her. in that case she wants to spend more time with you.

work on your problem. don't just leave her.
 
eirene and lidarman have the best advice.... very well thought out. we don't know you and your situation, and (most likely) aren't relationship experts. i used to think 'experts' and sessions were a fraud and waste of money, until i went to them and realized it helps. a lot. but based on the limited info i have and my unprofessional opinion:

As a couple you have to make important decisions together. Would you go buy a new house without agreeing on it first? Hopefully not. You want to do something to make yourself healthier, which is great. But that takes support and a change in your life which DOES affect your wife. If you want to ride 6 days a week and train for the olympics, it takes more sacrifice than just riding twice a week for 2-3 hours. Work with her. If she is unable to support you AT ALL and not willing to compromise, the you need to start thinking about divorce. What if this wasn't biking? What if you wanted to go back to school? Or change careers? Things change, but ideally you want to work things out together.
 
Your wife sounds like a real piece of work,

Watches monster trucks

Drinks beer till she passes out

likes the pool hall

is overweight

eats junkfood

sits around all day

can't hold a job

is a nag to you

tries to hold you down

is happy when you're unhappy

DUDE, life is way too freakin short! Don't let children hold you down. My dad has been divorced twice once from my mom when I was 12 and again with a crazy psycho wife when I was 19 or so. I'm perfectly fine. You're kid is going to be much better off not living with a depressed alcoholic. He would probably love to live with you and get away from all the misery.

Staying together for the sake of kids is the biggest mistake parents make IMO. Kids are much better off when their parents are happy and it sets a good precedent for them as well. You're showing him that its NOT OKAY to be unhappy and that you have to take action in your life when things aren't working out. Kids learn by example, and the example you're setting right now is not good. I'd guess you would want him to grow up and be a strong man who takes control of his life. How would you feel about it if he found himself in a relationship like you are and didn't do anything about it?

You sound very unhappy and from the description your wife does not sound like the type of person that would be a positive influence on you or your son.


BTW I'd be highly curious to hear what her family is like, I bet it's a huge clue whether or not she's ever going to change. If her family is full of trailer trash as well I'd doubt that she's really going to change
 
My wife and I have our differences, always have, always will. But she fully supports my fitness related activities. She makes sure that my stable is well stocked with high-end bikes and supplies, and that I ride them. When we were dating we played hoops a lot (she played in college) until I broke my ankle and destroyed most of the cartiledge. Now that we're done having kids she's getting back into riding and the bike she bought 2 years ago is getting some action again. We just booked a trip to Crested Butte for our 10th anniversary.

Why am I telling you this? 2 reasons. First, there are really cool chicks out there, I found one of them. Second, if pedaling a bike is as close to your soul as it is mine, then it is a non-negotiable, and if the one you're with can't at least respect that, she doesn't get you and is not worth your time.

On the flip side, if biking is just something you just recently picked up because you got bored with something else, and is another in a string of hobbies that don't last, then there's little credibility there. You should weigh that in her favor, deal with it, and worry more about the whole package and not why mountain biking is causing so much consternation, because there is more there than just that. Maybe if you stick to it for several years some credibility will build over time and she will learn to respect that.
 
From the picture you've painted of her so far, it seems like you're just looking for people to validate your feelings so that you don't feel so bad when you divorce her. To be honest, I think it's a smart move. Life's too short to spend it unhappy.

Don't worry about the 15 year old, he'll be fine.
 
Discussion starter · #70 ·
thanks for the rest of the responses ... i have some other ideas of what i need to do and so forth now ... will start with them soon ... and see where it leads ...

yes if stuff doesn't work out ... then divorce is a very valid option that is in my mind...

i know there are others out there, it is just one of those things ... of time invested etc, etc, etc ... and the fact that i will always see myself as the 'quiet little fat kid that never had a date in school' so my social skills are always lacking when it comes to the chance of finding someone else haha

on the bike riding and if it is a 'fad' for me ... it is something i did when growing up, and always missed it when i stopped (after i got a car) and i am very glad to be back doing it .. one of the few true stress releivers i have ...

on the kid, i am attached to him, yes. but a small fact is he is not mine ... but i have raised him like he is my own since he was 3, he belongs to her. but has already told me that if we were to break up he would wrather live with me then her .. (if that says anything about the situation) ... for him, and the attachment that my parents have developed to him, and to a small extent the headache of dealing with a divorce .. are some of the main reasons that i still want to keep trying to see if something can be worked out ...

but like others have said to me many of times ... it is more like i am raising 2 kids ... instead of having a partner to help with raising 1 ...
 
Just wow...

All I have to say is wow...

Does not sound good. There are no blessings greater than a good wife and no curse worse than a bad one. Support and empathey are key to any relationship, sounds like there might be a shortage in yours...

Best of Luck to You!

PS I would definitly seek non-biased advice, as it sounds like you are in the makings of a life of misery.
 
Help for a brother in need.

Hi Devil.
I have professional counselling experience, and I would be most happy to offer you any help I can (off list would probably be a good idea.) PM me if you are interested.

In the mean time, I have some observations.
Your wife's behaviour (based on what you describe) is very passive-aggressive. This is pretty common in someone who doesn't have a dominant or assertive personality. Passive is the ground state of someone lacking confidence or self esteem. The aggression part comes in when they feel they insecure and want you to know about it. It is more common in women than men, and I submit that it is just another way for her trying to communicate with you. It really isn't about the bike. She has probably long since given up trying to communicate with you verbally, because all that proves (to her) is that you don't listen or just don't get her.

Let me explain:
Men experience the world in a series of thoughts with emotion as a backdrop. We process things rationally and don't usually attach much emotion at all to things. Ask a man what he's feeling and you will get a very limited response, because he will struggle to label what he is feeling to any degree of accuracy.... Or he might just get annoyed at you. Men tend to ignore feelings and break the world into a series of problems to be solved, and they think through things to achieve resolution. Men process even strong emotion by thinking about them rather than exploring the feelings themselves. Finally, men can generally only follow one train of thought at a time.
Women experience the world and process information with emotion first and thought second. Ask a woman how she is feeling, and you will get much more information... (and probably a dose of gratitude.) More importantly, women associate very closely with their emotions. Criticize the emotion equals criticize her. Women like to explore their feelings and talk through issues to find resolution. Women can also deal with multiple trains of thought simultaneously and find it much easier to multi-task.

Communication. It's the key to every successful relationship, and to be fair, we generally try pretty hard to communicate when we go into a relationship, but we do it wrong, because men and women communicate differently.
Example time.
Men: You get home and your wife is in a bad mood. You wonder if she's angry with you, but it turns out someone upset her during the day, so you ask about it. Correct so far. She explains what happened, and you listen closely, then you offer opinions about how she might handle the situation next time. Incorrect. Very incorrect. In her perception you just proved you weren't really listening. Why? She didn't want advice. She wanted you to listen and understand how she was feeling. She wanted you to empathize, not problem solve. Net result: She feels let down that you weren't interested in listening and understanding her, and you wonder what the hell just happened.
Women: Your husband is quiet and preoccupied. He may even appear upset about something. You ask him what is wrong. He says nothing is wrong. You don't think he's being honest with you and wonder what he is feeling, possibly fearing he is upset at you for some reason so you press the point. Are you upset? What is wrong? Tell me. Are you angry with me? By this point he is getting annoyed, because you are asking him questions that he doesn't really understand, or about feelings he has no desire to explore, and you've broken his train of thought. The fact is he probably wasn't upset at all. He had just closed down all unneeded processes while he nutted out a problem. Men do this all the time. And even if he was upset, he would only be able to come up with three emotions for you anyway: Angry, frustrated, and tired (which isn't really an emotion at all, but it is the most common stock answer.) Mostly what he needed was to be given time to think about things. He certainly didn't want you trying to extract them from him. Net result: Your relationship just died a little.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, but I hoped to give you and others reading just a little bit of insight into how we miscommunicate.
The other things you describe, such as the drinking and sitting in front of TV are pure escapism and the hallmarks of someone who is deeply unhappy. However, you are in a great position to effect change in your relationship. I always prefer to work with the men first as men's thought based processes make change simply a rational decision, rather than an emotional one. As you change your behaviour to better meet your wife's emotional needs, her emotional responses to you change for the better. Change the emotion, change the woman. Then when she has some momentum, it becomes easier for her to see change as a positive thing. At the moment, suggesting any change will have negative effect. Suggest the gym, and she will hear "You're fat and ugly" (since that is how she's already feeling) and she'll just get drunk to escape the hurt.

Sorry this was so long. There is so much to explain. If anyone has any questions then let rip, or if you think I'm just talking bollocks then tell me that too. I'll tell you why you are wrong. ha ha.

b.
 
bshallard has some incisive and relevant points I think. Speaking from the point of view of someone who just celebrated the 11th year of marriage and 13th year with the gal, I can almost point to incidents in our relationship that are point-examples of what he talks about. It's taken a lot of time, patience, commitment, and eventual understanding to keep those issues from becoming problems.

The only thing i'd add is that once we figured out that my need to solve problems did not often coincide with her desire for help in problem solving, we had to work out a way for her to tell me explicitly that she was IN FACT asking for problem solving help because the only safe baseline was, as stated, that she was looking for commiseration and understanding and NOT problem solving. :D
 
bshallard said:
Men: You get home and your wife is in a bad mood. You wonder if she's angry with you, but it turns out someone upset her during the day, so you ask about it. Correct so far. She explains what happened, and you listen closely, then you offer opinions about how she might handle the situation next time. Incorrect. Very incorrect. In her perception you just proved you weren't really listening. Why? She didn't want advice. She wanted you to listen and understand how she was feeling. She wanted you to empathize, not problem solve. Net result: She feels let down that you weren't interested in listening and understanding her, and you wonder what the hell just happened.
Ahhhh now that finally makes sense! I always wondered why she would get so frustrated at my attempts to help!

bshallard said:
The other things you describe, such as the drinking and sitting in front of TV are pure escapism and the hallmarks of someone who is deeply unhappy. However, you are in a great position to effect change in your relationship. I always prefer to work with the men first as men's thought based processes make change simply a rational decision, rather than an emotional one. As you change your behaviour to better meet your wife's emotional needs, her emotional responses to you change for the better. Change the emotion, change the woman. Then when she has some momentum, it becomes easier for her to see change as a positive thing. At the moment, suggesting any change will have negative effect. Suggest the gym, and she will hear "You're fat and ugly" (since that is how she's already feeling) and she'll just get drunk to escape the hurt.

b.
So your saying you need to get the snowball rolling, but only she can pack the "starter"? So you wait around till she says "maybe I should join the gym", and reply with "i'll join with you?"
 
bshallard said:
Hi Devil.
I have professional counselling experience, and I would be most happy to offer you any help I can (off list would probably be a good idea.) PM me if you are interested.

In the mean time, I have some observations.
Your wife's behaviour
<snip>
TL;DR!

I am not a professional counselor. However allow me to offer the following:

1. Anyone who watches mud truck racin' is not capable of all the thinking Mr. Counselor is describing.

2. Anyone who has to put the effort into their SO that counselor is suggesting is in fact shacked up with a life sapping Grade A BALLBUSTER. Run!

Seriously. Been around the block so many times I got dizzy and puked. I am in an exceedingly satisfying long term relationship. We never have to think about it, it just happens. Mostly because both of us waited to find somebody that just works instead of trying to dress up a pig and call it something else.

Sure we have our moments when we want to kill one another. It passes like a spring rain and we're back to hitting the trails. Notice I said that: All this opposites attract business is a pure crock. If you're not compatible move on. I have friends who spend their lives trying to make their relationships work... waste of time. Impatience is an underrated virtue!

OP has admitted fat kid insecurity, shacked up with someone who messed up her life, mostly because he feels sorry for her and thinks he can help her overcome issues he hasn't yet. He is way too loving and naive to be feeding this pit bull of a woman.

The kid's not yours. The courts will remind you of that. You have no obligation to ruin your life so that you can save another. Especially when some idiot can just come along anytime and undo all your hard work.

Trust me they can and will. And then what are you left with? More wasted years and regrets.
 
bshallard said:
Hi Devil.
I have professional counselling experience, and I would be most happy to offer you any help I can (off list would probably be a good idea.) PM me if you are interested.

In the mean time, I have some observations.
Your wife's behaviour (based on what you describe) is very passive-aggressive. This is pretty common in someone who doesn't have a dominant or assertive personality. Passive is the ground state of someone lacking confidence or self esteem. The aggression part comes in when they feel they insecure and want you to know about it. It is more common in women than men, and I submit that it is just another way for her trying to communicate with you. It really isn't about the bike. She has probably long since given up trying to communicate with you verbally, because all that proves (to her) is that you don't listen or just don't get her.

Let me explain:
Men experience the world in a series of thoughts with emotion as a backdrop. We process things rationally and don't usually attach much emotion at all to things. Ask a man what he's feeling and you will get a very limited response, because he will struggle to label what he is feeling to any degree of accuracy.... Or he might just get annoyed at you. Men tend to ignore feelings and break the world into a series of problems to be solved, and they think through things to achieve resolution. Men process even strong emotion by thinking about them rather than exploring the feelings themselves. Finally, men can generally only follow one train of thought at a time.
Women experience the world and process information with emotion first and thought second. Ask a woman how she is feeling, and you will get much more information... (and probably a dose of gratitude.) More importantly, women associate very closely with their emotions. Criticize the emotion equals criticize her. Women like to explore their feelings and talk through issues to find resolution. Women can also deal with multiple trains of thought simultaneously and find it much easier to multi-task.

Communication. It's the key to every successful relationship, and to be fair, we generally try pretty hard to communicate when we go into a relationship, but we do it wrong, because men and women communicate differently.
Example time.
Men: You get home and your wife is in a bad mood. You wonder if she's angry with you, but it turns out someone upset her during the day, so you ask about it. Correct so far. She explains what happened, and you listen closely, then you offer opinions about how she might handle the situation next time. Incorrect. Very incorrect. In her perception you just proved you weren't really listening. Why? She didn't want advice. She wanted you to listen and understand how she was feeling. She wanted you to empathize, not problem solve. Net result: She feels let down that you weren't interested in listening and understanding her, and you wonder what the hell just happened.
Women: Your husband is quiet and preoccupied. He may even appear upset about something. You ask him what is wrong. He says nothing is wrong. You don't think he's being honest with you and wonder what he is feeling, possibly fearing he is upset at you for some reason so you press the point. Are you upset? What is wrong? Tell me. Are you angry with me? By this point he is getting annoyed, because you are asking him questions that he doesn't really understand, or about feelings he has no desire to explore, and you've broken his train of thought. The fact is he probably wasn't upset at all. He had just closed down all unneeded processes while he nutted out a problem. Men do this all the time. And even if he was upset, he would only be able to come up with three emotions for you anyway: Angry, frustrated, and tired (which isn't really an emotion at all, but it is the most common stock answer.) Mostly what he needed was to be given time to think about things. He certainly didn't want you trying to extract them from him. Net result: Your relationship just died a little.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, but I hoped to give you and others reading just a little bit of insight into how we miscommunicate.
The other things you describe, such as the drinking and sitting in front of TV are pure escapism and the hallmarks of someone who is deeply unhappy. However, you are in a great position to effect change in your relationship. I always prefer to work with the men first as men's thought based processes make change simply a rational decision, rather than an emotional one. As you change your behaviour to better meet your wife's emotional needs, her emotional responses to you change for the better. Change the emotion, change the woman. Then when she has some momentum, it becomes easier for her to see change as a positive thing. At the moment, suggesting any change will have negative effect. Suggest the gym, and she will hear "You're fat and ugly" (since that is how she's already feeling) and she'll just get drunk to escape the hurt.

Sorry this was so long. There is so much to explain. If anyone has any questions then let rip, or if you think I'm just talking bollocks then tell me that too. I'll tell you why you are wrong. ha ha.

b.
Bollocks. I'd fire you quick if you attempted to treat me with a bunch of generalizations about average people.

What's wrong with admitting a mistake in compatibility, and moving on, before you're dead?
 
Life is way to short, don't treat this as a passing phase. Go nose to nose with the problem and some profession help to assist. Mediate this NOW, or you'll be living with regrets in the future. As for the youngsters, they need to see for themselves that it is O.K. to want and strive for a happy life. The message is you don't have to live in a miserable relationship. That was NOT one of the vows I took when I got married 24 years ago. To this day, we grow closer and love each other even more due to the accumulated mutual RESPECT we have for one another's desire to have a happy life. This is not to be taken lightly, this is YOUR life! Most everything in life can be fixed, but you have to have the skill, patience and commitment to make it happen. If your life partner is not on the same page, don't just turn the page......CHANGE BOOKS!!!!
 
Ha ha, I would have been disappointed if I didn't get some flak over generalizing. Fair call in a way, but if I'd written enough to cover all bases, no-one would have read it. Some of it wasn't terribly well written either, but in my defense, it was very late at night and I was tired.
No, you don't counsel someone by talking generalizations at them. Mostly, counseling consists of listening carefully and then asking the right questions.
Last night's post was what I might describe as an invitation to talk more, and judging by some of the responses, I struck a cord with some people, so it was worth sticking my neck out, despite the axe wielders.

There are some useful concepts that could be explored if anyone is interested. They are really helpful in understanding first yourself and then others.

Perception vs. reality
Action vs. reaction
Thought vs. emotion.

If anyone is interested I'm happy to talk. Maybe we could shift it to the social/political forum. If not, then we can move on to more bike related topics.

b.
 
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