Brazing with .45 silver

rodar y rodar · Mar 15, 2008

Does anybody use the 45% stuff for anything? Seems that most use 56%, LFB, or a combo of both. Anyway, I bought an oz of 45% to practice with thinking maybe I`d save a buck and try some 56 later (or maybe not). But it isn`t working as I expected- from what I`ve read, the 56% is supposed to melt before the steel turns red, correct? This stuff doesn`t flow until the base metal hits dull red. I can usually do it without seeming to burn the flux much, but it does always leave some black crusties around the edges. In theory, should I have zero burned flux on a good braze? I would think so, anyway. Should I abandon my attempts with the 45%? No matter how you slice it, I`ve been enjoying myself (and wasting a good bit of my employer`s time

) by brazing a lot of things that we would normally TIG. I seem to do much better with the LFB.

coconinocycles · Mar 15, 2008

save that stuff for braze ons and stainless, man. i can lay a decent silver alloy fillet, but you have to have your pre-heating down perfectly, and do the actual metal building with a flame about 2" long. touchy stuff. that, and you are gonna dump $150 in filler into a frame AT LEAST, more if your miters are less then perfect. get some c-04 nickle brass from henry james and some blue flux. you will be stoked. steve.

rodar y rodar · Mar 15, 2008

Thanks for the reply Steve, but that`s pretty much what my plans were anyway. I`m figuring to filet braze the tubes on my first frame (bronze) but planned to use silver for the brazeons. As it happens, I want to add some cable stops to an existing frame before I get that far so I`m trying to get some practice with the silver. Is the .45 OK for that stuff, or would 56 be easier to get the hang of? And if I go with .45, is it supposed to flow before it turns red? It seems to go just at the same point that the steel starts to turn. According to the guys at the welding shop, the flux and wire I have are compatible with each other, but I`m not too sure- could be that I just need to keep working with it, or it could be that they don`t know much about brazing either.

EDIT: Is c-04 the same as Low Fuming Bronze? I`m getting decent results with that and the flux that Walt recomended (Allstate 1113, I think). Maybe I should stick with it even for the brazeons.

coconinocycles · Mar 15, 2008

c-04 is a gasflux alloy. check out their webpage, cool stuff. 45% is "gloorpyer" then 56%. 56% flows easier. and, silver and brass fluxes are totally different, turning liquidus at different temperatures. either silver alloy will work great for braze ons, and yeg, red is too hot. steve.

Rody · Mar 15, 2008

Rodar,

To work with 40% or 45%, you need to be using black flux (Stay Silv makes some good stuff) that flows at a higher temp.

Turn your flame down and take your time to fully pre-heat, watching the flux closely. It'll turn liquid well before the base material turns dull red.

cheers,

rody

rodar y rodar · Mar 16, 2008

Okie dokie. No matter what, silver brazing looks like an awful handy skill to develop, so I`ll trade in my white Stay-Silv for some black flux and keep practicing. But still, I have much better results with 1/16 bronze. Is there a big difference between that and the C-04? Does anybody prefer brass/bronze for stops, guides and cage bosses?

coconinocycles · Mar 16, 2008

rodar y rodar said:
Okie dokie. No matter what, silver brazing looks like an awful handy skill to develop, so I`ll trade in my white Stay-Silv for some black flux and keep practicing. But still, I have much better results with 1/16 bronze. Is there a big difference between that and the C-04? Does anybody prefer brass/bronze for stops, guides and cage bosses?

brass is okey-dokey for everything if that's the way you want to go. you just need a good brazing hand to put stops on a .6mm thin section of a tube without torching it. that's pretty much the main reason, heat. that, and silver tends to "wet out" easier. steve.

rodar y rodar · Mar 17, 2008

Got it. Muchos thank yous, Steve and Rody.

1gear · Mar 17, 2008

One more point to note is that if you're doing stainless steel dropouts and aren't tigging them, you'll need to attach them with silver. Brass and ss don't mix. If they are the Henry James plug-in style you can use whatever silver you want. If they're the slotted kind (i.e. Paragon sliders) I prefer 45 for the job. It's better at filling the large gaps.

stoiccycle · Mar 17, 2008

1gear said:
One more point to note is that if you're doing stainless steel dropouts and aren't tigging them, you'll need to attach them with silver. Brass and ss don't mix. If they are the Henry James plug-in style you can use whatever silver you want. If they're the slotted kind (i.e. Paragon sliders) I prefer 45 for the job. It's better at filling the large gaps.

hey, have you done many of the slotted/ paragon sliders with 45%? i just hear mixed reviews/storys about 45% cracking, and haven't been willing to try it on stainless dropouts, I usually use 50n for those, but i have a oz. or so of 45% setting around that could get me out of a little bind right now, (order delay on some 50n) just didn't know if i wanted to risk (if it's even a risk, stories may be a result of someone cooking it or??) useing the 45%, i have did some small test peices, myself and haven't had any issues, but??? sounds like it's working for you so i may consider it. Jay

1gear · Mar 17, 2008

It's working fine for me. I've got a lot of very hard miles on many bikes and not the slightest problem.

coconinocycles · Mar 17, 2008

yeah, just about any silver alloy at hand will work fine. i've used 50n & 45%, 56% is just too "wet". just make sure you get a really tight slot fit and feed in enough filler to get a good plug past the end of the plate. i like fillet pro the best, but freddie isn't awnsering communications at the moment...... steve.

Rody · Mar 17, 2008

Dude, rock out the 45...just take your time bringing it up to heat and then don't dilly dally around, flow it in there and it'll be solid.

cheers,

rody

Brazing with .45 silver

rodar y rodar

coconinocycles

rodar y rodar

coconinocycles

Rody

rodar y rodar

coconinocycles

rodar y rodar

1gear

stoiccycle

1gear

coconinocycles

Rody

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