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tscheezy

· No, that's not phonetic
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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
I googled around and couldn't even find the Wheelsmith website. :confused:

Anyway, I have some 29er wheels that use WS butted 2.0/1.7/2.0 spokes, alu nips, 3-cross, Stans 355 rims, yada-yada. I have a Park tensiometer and was wondering what spoke tension I could safely take the spokes up to in order to make a nice stiff wheel. The Park tool comes with a conversion table to get from the tensiometer's reading to kg of force (the range given is from 50-170kg: quite a spread), but I don't really know what an acceptable level of tension is. Any thoughts?

TIA. :)
 
If they were my wheels I would try to build them between 1200-1350N(122-138kgf) for the drive side on the rear and the same for the brake side for the front. That is a pretty high spoke tension that you should also be able to reach without causing any problems. You could probably take it safely higher but you also might run into problems.
 
spoke tension

The previous post with the recommended spoke tensions, I believe, is right on. You've probably read a lot online about wheel truing/building etc., but as important as having the approximate proper spoke tension, is having even spoke tension. If one spoke measures "40" on your tool, the next "50", it would be desirable to loosen one and tighten the other. Unfortuanetly, however, the park tool only gives you an idea of spoke tension, where as a tensiometer with an analog or dial indicator would give you an exact tension, which is always preferrable.

Wheelsmith was bought by Sun components/Sun-Ringle, it looks like the Wheelsmith site has been taken down, atleast the link to Wheelsmith from the Sun site has been deactivated.

Now.

What does the tension read right now?
You are aware that tension differs between the drive side and non-drive side correct?
You know to place the tensiometer in approximately the same place on every spoke, preferrable in the middle between the beginning of the spoke butt and where it crosses?
Your 29er wheels use disc brakes now?
You know how to calibrate your park tensiometer?

All of the above affect the spoke tension reading and/or the desired spoke tension.

Your spokes are pretty thin wire, I'm guessing that the reading on your tool to indicate your desired spoke tension is somewhere between 45-55. I don't know, you'll definitely want to reference your conversion chart. That being said, check all the spokes working primarily on the drive side for the rear wheel, and the disk side (if you have disc brakes) for the front wheel. Find the highest spoke tension reading and the lowest. You'll probably want to tighten the spokes up to match the highest tension, unless that # is obviously an outlier compared to the others. After you get pretty consistent readings on the drive side, true the wheel by tightening the non-drive side, while making sure the dish of the wheel is proper. The same process can be applied to the front wheel, but you would work off the disc side.

After having said all this, however, if your wheel is more than a few months old, or if you don't have all of the proper tools, or if you don't really know what your doing...working with thin guage spokes and alloy nipples can get tricky, especially if they are more than 5-6 months old. The nipples start to bind to the spoke, resulting in static friction that is difficult to overcome without rounding the nipples with your tool. Also, it is best to work in terms of small changes. Make small adjustments, small corrections. If one spoke is loose, only tighten it a little compared to what you think it may need. By the time you check the whole wheel, you may have tightened everything else sufficiently to bring that loose spoke up to an acceptable tension.

Also, if, before touching your spoke with a wrench, you check the tension with your tensiometer and find the tension to be generally acceptable, you may not want to touch anything.

Good luck

C Foster
 
ah, good catch. I have never built a wheel using those rims. That to me seems like a pretty low spoke tension even at the highest value they recommend for a mountain rim. I don't think I would expect a real long life out of a wheel built with only 800 newtons but you never know.

I guess thats the tradeoff, low weight for low spoke tension.

Even spoke tension is going to be very critical at that low of spoke tensions to keep the wheel straight over time.

I am sure plenty of people have built using those rims with success I am just saying I think it probably takes a little more care and attention to detail to provide a wheel with a long life with those tensions.

roger-m said:
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
I have built quite a number of wheelsets in my day, and I'm pretty familiar with tensioning and truing, but never got into the nitty gritty of applying a tensiometer, so I appreciate the detailed explanations. Right now the tension is pretty consistently 90-100kg on the rear drive side, so at the upper end of what Stan recommends (BTW- thanks for the link to the notubes spec page). The wheels are new, never ridden, but purchased second hand and I don't know anything about the builder. I normally build my own wheels, so this was the first time in a long time I was wondering if I should do anything to check to see if things were kosher beyond determining if the tensions were even, which they are.

Good info, gents.
 
tscheezy said:
I have built quite a number of wheelsets in my day, and I'm pretty familiar with tensioning and truing, but never got into the nitty gritty of applying a tensiometer, so I appreciate the detailed explanations. Right now the tension is pretty consistently 90-100kg on the rear drive side, so at the upper end of what Stan recommends (BTW- thanks for the link to the notubes spec page). The wheels are new, never ridden, but purchased second hand and I don't know anything about the builder. I normally build my own wheels, so this was the first time in a long time I was wondering if I should do anything to check to see if things were kosher beyond determining if the tensions were even, which they are.

Good info, gents.
I went to about 100 kg. with the 29er 355's I built for friends and 110 with the Arches I built for myself with good results. The spokes should handle the tension with no problems. In general, I like to go higher like gk02 recommended, but the wheels wouldn't hold their true past this point.
 
Bob the Wheelbuilder said:
I went to about 100 kg. with the 29er 355's I built for friends and 110 with the Arches I built for myself with good results. The spokes should handle the tension with no problems. In general, I like to go higher like gk02 recommended, but the wheels wouldn't hold their true past this point.
Yikes, it's not the spokes the have a problem with high tension, its the rim. Too high a tension and you can shorten the life of the rim by causing cracking at the spoke holes. Lightweight rims are especially vunerable. I would check with the rim manufacturer first. In the absence of data, I wouldn't go over 120 kgf on the drive side.
 
MikeDee said:
Yikes, it's not the spokes the have a problem with high tension, its the rim. Too high a tension and you can shorten the life of the rim by causing cracking at the spoke holes. Lightweight rims are especially vunerable. I would check with the rim manufacturer first. In the absence of data, I wouldn't go over 120 kgf on the drive side.
This is spot on.
For an eyeletted road rim you will see the rim get squirelly as the spoke tension gets too high. Adding spoke tension starts to produce unpredictable results.
 
I don't hang out here much, but...

Jobst Brandt recommends tensioning the wheel incrementally, and "After each round of tightening, test the tension by stress relieving. If the wheel becomes untrue in two large waves during stress relieving, the maximum safe tension has been exceeded. Approach this tension carefully to avoid major rim distortions. When the wheel looses alignment from stress relieving, loosen all spokes a half turn before retruing the wheel."

I rarely go to the point of untrueness anymore, but with the light Stan's rims, I did.

I mentioned the spokes because of this thread's title. I agree they're not the weak link.

Oh, and if you thought the 355 was a tension value, that's the rim model number.
 
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