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Jeez the Mag 21 does suck as bad as you guys say!

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Iron horseman

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I just got my all original 94 zaskar (full XT and Mag21) and took it for a ride. I felt like I was riding my fully ridgid 92 Pantera, but with less control!! That shock has got to go. I'll probably keep it around since its original, but I want to put something on there that actaully works or just go ridgid!!! If my Marzocchi Bomber Z2 wasnt red (my bike is blue anno), I'd stick it on there.

Other than that, the ride of the Zaskar is great. It's so stiff and fast. The power transfer is releiving. I hopped on my Ironhorse for the second lap and I'll have to say, tecnology is great. But, I think with a decent shock, I could as fast faster on the zaskar in the long run since it climbs so well.

Anyway, its fun to switch them up lap to lap and would recommend brinking two bikes out next time you go. Its like a history/evolution lesson. Also, it gives you a good excuse to take a break while switching bikes!
 
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#2 ·
The Mag 21 has always needed the long travel kit and custom valving to perform well. It has many positive reviews on this site.

IMHO, properly set up, it'll hold it's own against similar travel vintage forks. I've got two '98 Z2 atom bombs in my stash as well as a few hot-rodded Mag 21s, and I prefer to run the Mag on my single speed.


I take it your Mag has the stock travel, valving and 14 year old oil in it? :skep:
 
#4 ·
Iron horseman said:
I just got my all original 94 zaskar (full XT and Mag21) and took it for a ride. I felt like I was riding my fully ridgid 92 Pantera, but with less control!! That shock has got to go. I'll probably keep it around since its original, but I want to put something on there that actaully works or just go ridgid!!! If my Marzocchi Bomber Z2 wasnt red (my bike is blue anno), I'd stick it on there.

Other than that, the ride of the Zaskar is great. It's so stiff and fast. The power transfer is releiving. I hopped on my Ironhorse for the second lap and I'll have to say, tecnology is great. But, I think with a decent shock, I could as fast faster on the zaskar in the long run since it climbs so well.

Anyway, its fun to switch them up lap to lap and would recommend brinking two bikes out next time you go. Its like a history/evolution lesson. Also, it gives you a good excuse to take a break while switching bikes!
Click to expand...
Something is definitely wrong if it feels like a rigid fork.
 
#5 ·
I went through 3 Mag 21's befor I got one that worked correctly. Seems its very sensitive to the amount of air, too much and its way rigid, not enough and its mush. Just right and it works amazing well. :D
 
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Discussion starter · #6 ·
True, True.. Maybe I should give her another chance. But -- it holds air and fells like its moving fine, etc when static, but what do I know? When I was bombing down a rocky slope, it felt like it couldnt keep up with the bumps and was just po-go ing (probably not a word) me all over. Is it worth tearing down and putting new oil in there? Or should I just buy a nice 63 or 80 mm SID?
 
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#7 ·
'tis easy to change oil and mess with oil heights/weights to tune the ride... still can't compare to a Z2 (4 plushness & torsional rigidity), but give it a chance.
you can download a rockshox mag technical manual here still...
http://www.sutherlandsbicycle.com/files/RSSection4.pdf
That's the one link that still works for me :p D8 has a nice page up on mods on his new website, but I can't seem to lay my hands the linkage.
 
#8 ·
kb11 said:
I went through 3 Mag 21's befor I got one that worked correctly. Seems its very sensitive to the amount of air, too much and its way rigid, not enough and its mush. Just right and it works amazing well. :D
Click to expand...
That's really the trick. You have to love to tinker with settings to get the most out of the fork. And on top of that, all the adjustments that really mean anything are internal. The compression lockout knobs atop each leg are worthless. I run mine with the knobs fully counter-clockwise (full open), 2.5 wt oil, enlarged compression free-bleed ports and two .040 holes drilled in the rebound plate.

If the Mag is set up with 5 wt oil, stock valving and the compression knobs full clockwise, it likely will feel like a rigid fork. :p
 
#9 ·
I imagine that early suspension forks like the Mag21 were designed for riders used to rigid forks, so probably the biggest priority was to have it feel 'rigid' in a certain way.. ie. no bobbing.

Modern forks work better, but they do bob a lot... i guess riders just got used to it and stopped freaking out..
 
#12 ·
Mag series forks were basically what would today be called "motion control" by rockshox. They used a spring loaded compression valve that wouldn't open until a large enough bump forced the oil pressure to spike and push the valve open. They also had an adjustable "preload" setting for that mechanical spring holding the valve closed (on 20s and 21s it was external, on 30s and 10s it was internal). On Motion control forks today this is a large plastic (or titanium for some 2008 models) swiss-cheese looking oversized tube. Back then it was just a small strong steel coil spring. The forks back then were also designed to be setup without any sag. You pressurized them so they didn't move at all under your body weight.
 
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#13 ·
DeeEight, If I'm correct, this means that you could achieve modern ride characteristics if you replaced the fork oil with 5wt, pressurized the fork with 10% (+/-) sag, reduce the preload on the spring valve, and place a spring assembly on the unused side of the leg to make up for the reduced air pressure?

I'm sure my theory has a few flaws in it, but it's the basic idea. Could this be done? Has it? I'd love to know.

Edit: for this to work, the old Mag would have to be converted to "aftermarket air" like that of the older Judy's, right?
 
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#14 ·
Unused side of the leg?!? Mag-21s already had a negative spring if that's what you're referring to. Mag-21s are where the concept of negative springs were brought into mountain bike suspension and the Mag-21 LT kits is about when they started considering even setting up with sag (modern numbers are 20% though).

Aftermarket air?!? Mag-21s are air forks.
 
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#15 ·
"I'm sure my theory has a few flaws in it, but it's the basic idea. Could this be done? Has it? I'd love to know." - I didn't bother to find out too much about those old suckers. I was just brain storming....
 
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Discussion starter · #16 ·
Well, I tried adding a little air and pufffffffffff......I got sprayed with a little oil and my darn needle broke off in the fork. I think I blew something!!! It was right around 40 PSI. What should I do? Now I kind of want to tinker with the old POS! Can this be fixed?
 
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#19 ·
For a lot of us riding/racing, the original Z2s when they came out were considered undersprung and heavy...barcaloungers instead of fast......IMO the Mag-21 is a great fork for it's time and if set up right, a decent light, racy fork...I'd love to have another for a lightweight single...or a Sun Obsys if anyone has one.
 
#20 ·
The only flaws to the Mag-21 were the 25.4 stanchion diameter (which when they went to aluminium uppers increased the noodle-feel) with short overlap of the bushings, and the fact the only damping adjustment came from switching oil weights as the dials were for the blow-off circuit of the compression valving.
 
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Jkuo
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