Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
Cancel
Create thread New Forums

Fox Float RLC or Marzocchi All Mountain I?

Jump to Latest
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
D

Danny A

· Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
What do you say?
I am looking for a new fork for my Banshee Scirocco and came up to this two forks:
FOX FLOAT RLC
MARZOCCHI ALL MOUNTAIN I

Which one do you recommend?
(must be reliable and more stiff for heavy riders)
 
#4 ·
The Fox. The damper is of better quality. Don't be fooled; the TST is just a complicated design with diminishing returns. It doesn't feel better than their regular, fixed orifice dampers.

Of course, I feel anything over 130mm should be run with a TA, but between these two, the Fox is a better bet.

EDIT: I would even recommend the Vanilla
 
#5 ·
Given that travel, rider weight, and two forks you are considering, absolutely the Marz All Mtn 1 all the way. Fox Float RLC and Marz All mtn 1 is not in the same league. Float is tailored towards xc side and All mtn is tailored towards trail riding. Own both.
 
#6 ·
Jerk_Chicken said:
The Fox. The damper is of better quality. Don't be fooled; the TST is just a complicated design with diminishing returns. It doesn't feel better than their regular, fixed orifice dampers.
Click to expand...
I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you on that. Working at a shop, I've ridden many, many low- to mid-range Marzocchi forks with ported dampers, from late 1990's up until today. I owned a Z3 a few years back, and sold it a day after buying it- the ride quality was that bad.

I have also owned a AM SL 1, and currently a coil/air AM 1. While not as buttery as a HSCV or RC2 damper, the current generation of TST is a nice damping system. I don't notice any spiking on the current fork, and it rides higher in its travel than an HSCV or RC2 fork- better for fast XC/AM riding, in my experience. The chassis is certainly much stiffer than a Fox 140mm fork, with which I also have considerable experience.

So, in my opinion, the '07 TST forks are worlds apart from, say, a Z1 Drop-off or similar ported damper forks. I will say that the air/coil AM 1 seems to ride much more nicelyThe Fox forks are nice, too, but I'd much rather have the stiffness of the Zoke.
 
#7 ·
I got rid of my AM1 because the damper sucked and it didn't take fast hits well. At this travel, the fork was squirmy through rocks and roots. I was interested in getting full travel, which TST didn't allow on big hits, just like SSV. That TST does allow, as the name implies, is the compression adjustment, for which a more useful adjust is on the RC2 damper. TST is for the folks moving up from an XC fork.

A big mistake on Marzocchi's part is pushing TST, as it really doesn't work as well as the dampers competitors are using, as well as not working as well as the RC2. Having ridden them all, I'd rather have the HSCV, losing the compression adjust to gain the better compression damping.
 
#8 · (Edited)
I do agree w/ JC that Fox Float has better damper than Zoke All Mtn 1...shim vs. tst (orifice).

However based on rider weight and travel he will be running, stouter chassis out nudges better damper by close margin.

I love how plush Zoke all mtn 1 rides majority of the time but during high speed/big hit absorption it does lack the high speed damping. (edit) I tried tuning it w/ oil height but that does not do justice for lack of high speed damping.
 
#10 ·
Jerk_Chicken said:
I got rid of my AM1 because the damper sucked and it didn't take fast hits well. At this travel, the fork was squirmy through rocks and roots. I was interested in getting full travel, which TST didn't allow on big hits, just like SSV. That TST does allow, as the name implies, is the compression adjustment, for which a more useful adjust is on the RC2 damper. TST is for the folks moving up from an XC fork.

A big mistake on Marzocchi's part is pushing TST, as it really doesn't work as well as the dampers competitors are using, as well as not working as well as the RC2. Having ridden them all, I'd rather have the HSCV, losing the compression adjust to gain the better compression damping.
Click to expand...
What model year was your AM 1? I had a 2005 model, and it wasn't nearly as nice as my current 2007.

I haven't had a problem getting full travel on big hits with my AM 1. It does ramp up nicely towards the end of the stroke but there is no spiking I can detect.

TST may be better for folks moving up from an XC fork. It does allow better pedalling performance than, say, an older HSCV damper. Even fully open there is more compression damping with the TST. This doesn't seem to negatively affect small bump performance, at least on my fork.

By the way, the HSCV on the 2000 Z1 CR did have a compression adjuster (CR was for compression/rebound), so they could have kept refining that if they had liked.

I'm not arguing that the HSCV or RC2 isn't a better damper for more downhill-oriented activity, or for those less concerned with pedalling efficiency. It just isn't comparable to a SSV (or SSVF or one of the other 15 acronyms they've used for a simple orifice damper) fork, the overall ride is much better.
 
#11 ·
tommyrod74 said:
What model year was your AM 1? I had a 2005 model, and it wasn't nearly as nice as my current 2007.

I haven't had a problem getting full travel on big hits with my AM 1. It does ramp up nicely towards the end of the stroke but there is no spiking I can detect.

TST may be better for folks moving up from an XC fork. It does allow better pedalling performance than, say, an older HSCV damper. Even fully open there is more compression damping with the TST. This doesn't seem to negatively affect small bump performance, at least on my fork.

By the way, the HSCV on the 2000 Z1 CR did have a compression adjuster (CR was for compression/rebound), so they could have kept refining that if they had liked.

I'm not arguing that the HSCV or RC2 isn't a better damper for more downhill-oriented activity, or for those less concerned with pedalling efficiency. It just isn't comparable to a SSV (or SSVF or one of the other 15 acronyms they've used for a simple orifice damper) fork, the overall ride is much better.
Click to expand...
My AM was a 2006, I sold it about a dozen rides after purchase to get a Z1 Light. I have no doubt the pedaling efficiency is higher with the RC2. Want more pedaling? Dial up compression. It still flows more oil under bigger hits and allows closer to full travel. If I set up the AM for full travel, it was bobbing everywhere. Sure, I can flick the compression adjuster over, but I'd rather ride than constantly flicking adjustments back and forth, which is what the AM needed to handle diverse trail conditions. And again, I won't forget the brake dive. It even has a QR front that is a clear indicator of its mission to be a product to entice XC guys into going bigger. This is supported by the lockout feature, which is not necessary, but only takes up one position on the dial.

The only thing the TST offers above the fixed orifice forks is compression damping, nothing more. On paper, the whole fork seems like a winner with tons of features, but overall, the performance here is dictated and limited by the route the oil flows through the damper's piston. The maintenance is more finicky and essential. The damper is not as durable and it remains to be seen if several years down the road any will be in service like the hscv, rc2, and ssv/f dampers.

Your statement about the RC2 is somewhat suspect, because anyone who has ridden one knows it's not only a DH oriented damper. It handles trailbiking very well, perhaps even better than the TST and I was one to have a near side by side comparison (look at my photo gallery for evidence). It's set and forget, no matter where the user selects the compression.
 
#12 ·
Jerk_Chicken said:
My AM was a 2006, I sold it about a dozen rides after purchase to get a Z1 Light. I have no doubt the pedaling efficiency is higher with the RC2. Want more pedaling? Dial up compression. It still flows more oil under bigger hits and allows closer to full travel. If I set up the AM for full travel, it was bobbing everywhere. Sure, I can flick the compression adjuster over, but I'd rather ride than constantly flicking adjustments back and forth, which is what the AM needed to handle diverse trail conditions. And again, I won't forget the brake dive. It even has a QR front that is a clear indicator of its mission to be a product to entice XC guys into going bigger. This is supported by the lockout feature, which is not necessary, but only takes up one position on the dial.

The only thing the TST offers above the fixed orifice forks is compression damping, nothing more. On paper, the whole fork seems like a winner with tons of features, but overall, the performance here is dictated and limited by the route the oil flows through the damper's piston. The maintenance is more finicky and essential. The damper is not as durable and it remains to be seen if several years down the road any will be in service like the hscv, rc2, and ssv/f dampers.

Your statement about the RC2 is somewhat suspect, because anyone who has ridden one knows it's not only a DH oriented damper. It handles trailbiking very well, perhaps even better than the TST and I was one to have a near side by side comparison (look at my photo gallery for evidence). It's set and forget, no matter where the user selects the compression.
Click to expand...
I've owned a 66 SL as well (RC2). That fork did well to resist bobbing even without any compression damping added, which I would attribute more to Marzocchi's inability to make an air-sprung fork that has smooth initial action. I've ridden a friends 66 RC2X extensively, and it was a great fork, although I didn't bother with the compression setting, as it wasn't my bike and the adjuster was on the bottom of the fork (not so convenient on the fly). In all, I've owned 12 Marzocchi forks, going back to 1998, and worked on countless others.

The damper in the AM1 for 2007 is not identical to the one in the AM1 SL. There is no bladder, just a sealed cartridge (as per the Marzocchi tech on the phone- I haven't opened it up yet). This should alleviate at least some of the concerns with maintenance and longevity.

I'd rather ride, too- I ride an average of 10-14 hours a week this time of year, split between road and MTB. I only use the TST adjuster (only 2 positions on the AM1) when riding on pavement to the trail. As I said, even with no additional compression damping the AM1 doesn't seem to dive or bob much.

The 07 forks have a QR20-ish dropout, as I'm sure you're aware. This alone makes the fork a better proposition than any of the 32mm Fox offerings for the original poster's application, given his weight and riding style. Any (arguable) shortcomings of the damper are overwhelmed by the chassis advantages.

I do wish that there was a parallel line (like the Z1 line) with 20mm axle, HSCV or RC2 dampers, and 32-or-so mm stanchions for short-travel FR applications (like the '07 Z1 Anniversary, only not orange...). And I wouldn't complain if TST were dropped in favor of HSCV or RC2 (or RC3, or similar). But that's not an option at this time, and the TST damper isn't nearly as godawful as you make it sound. It's certainly head-and-shoulders above any of the other orifice dampers Marzocchi has sold in the past.
 
#13 ·
SingleTrackHound - So have you done anything special to your AM1 to make it feel so good? I have a 2006 and have followed lots of suggestions on this board (Including Warp’s) for improving it's damping and eliminating the clunking, but nothing has worked well. IMHO the damping is horrible. Notchy. Either underdamped or over on compression with the TST. I switch between the first two positions a lot and neither is very good. I have the rebound all the way up and it's just barely close to where I'd like it. It just does not feel smooth. The clunking is awful, at least at high speeds the chain slop is almost louder. BTW - I'm 155lbs and ride it for aggressive XC or AM riding.

I may be looking for a new cartridge (HSCV or RC2 if it fits) to replace the TST, and debating switching lowers to 20mm, or just dumping the whole thing and getting something else. I've been a pretty loyal Marz owner with 4 forks in the house right now. The 2005 888 I have is amazing. I have two SL forks with leaking air chambers though, and a Fox Talus that feels like butter, so my loyalty may be waning if I can’t make the AM1 feel good. I really want to like this fork, but It's hard. Oh and the TST has needed bleeding twice in about a year.
 
#14 ·
phatfreeheeler said:
SingleTrackHound - So have you done anything special to your AM1 to make it feel so good? I have a 2006 and have followed lots of suggestions on this board (Including Warp's) for improving it's damping and eliminating the clunking, but nothing has worked well. IMHO the damping is horrible. Notchy. Either underdamped or over on compression with the TST. I switch between the first two positions a lot and neither is very good. I have the rebound all the way up and it's just barely close to where I'd like it. It just does not feel smooth. The clunking is awful, at least at high speeds the chain slop is almost louder. BTW - I'm 155lbs and ride it for aggressive XC or AM riding.

I may be looking for a new cartridge (HSCV or RC2 if it fits) to replace the TST, and debating switching lowers to 20mm, or just dumping the whole thing and getting something else. I've been a pretty loyal Marz owner with 4 forks in the house right now. The 2005 888 I have is amazing. I have two SL forks with leaking air chambers though, and a Fox Talus that feels like butter, so my loyalty may be waning if I can't make the AM1 feel good. I really want to like this fork, but It's hard. Oh and the TST has needed bleeding twice in about a year.
Click to expand...
My fork has TST-2, as opposed to TST-5, so the dampers are different. There's no bladder in mine as per Marzocchi, which may account for some of the better feel.

I wish I had a secret, but I just added 10 psi of air for preload and rode it. I will say that it feels lots better than my AM SL1 (same damper as yours, TST-5) but I don't really know how much of that is due to the air-vs.-coil issue.

I'd try the 2007 AM1, or maybe the 20th Anniversary Z1 (if you like the orange!).
 
#15 ·
phatfreeheeler said:
SingleTrackHound - So have you done anything special to your AM1 to make it feel so good? I have a 2006 and have followed lots of suggestions on this board (Including Warp's) for improving it's damping and eliminating the clunking, but nothing has worked well. IMHO the damping is horrible. Notchy. Either underdamped or over on compression with the TST. I switch between the first two positions a lot and neither is very good. I have the rebound all the way up and it's just barely close to where I'd like it. It just does not feel smooth. The clunking is awful, at least at high speeds the chain slop is almost louder. BTW - I'm 155lbs and ride it for aggressive XC or AM riding.

I may be looking for a new cartridge (HSCV or RC2 if it fits) to replace the TST, and debating switching lowers to 20mm, or just dumping the whole thing and getting something else. I've been a pretty loyal Marz owner with 4 forks in the house right now. The 2005 888 I have is amazing. I have two SL forks with leaking air chambers though, and a Fox Talus that feels like butter, so my loyalty may be waning if I can't make the AM1 feel good. I really want to like this fork, but It's hard. Oh and the TST has needed bleeding twice in about a year.
Click to expand...
Your best bet here is to get the 07 RC2, then remove the TAS/ETA cart from your AM. Do the swap, then sell the AM on ebay or the classifieds and disclose this. You could also get a pretty penny by selling the lowers, ETA cart, TST, crown/lower/steerer assemblies separate.
 
#16 ·
Jerk_Chicken said:
Your best bet here is to get the 07 RC2, then remove the TAS/ETA cart from your AM. Do the swap, then sell the AM on ebay or the classifieds and disclose this. You could also get a pretty penny by selling the lowers, ETA cart, TST, crown/lower/steerer assemblies separate.
Click to expand...
This would be a good way to go as well. The lowers will probably work fine with the AM uppers. You'll still have an orange fork.
 
#17 ·
phatfreeheeler said:
SingleTrackHound - So have you done anything special to your AM1 to make it feel so good? I have a 2006 and have followed lots of suggestions on this board (Including Warp's) for improving it's damping and eliminating the clunking, but nothing has worked well. IMHO the damping is horrible. Notchy. Either underdamped or over on compression with the TST. I switch between the first two positions a lot and neither is very good. I have the rebound all the way up and it's just barely close to where I'd like it. It just does not feel smooth. The clunking is awful, at least at high speeds the chain slop is almost louder. BTW - I'm 155lbs and ride it for aggressive XC or AM riding.

I may be looking for a new cartridge (HSCV or RC2 if it fits) to replace the TST, and debating switching lowers to 20mm, or just dumping the whole thing and getting something else. I've been a pretty loyal Marz owner with 4 forks in the house right now. The 2005 888 I have is amazing. I have two SL forks with leaking air chambers though, and a Fox Talus that feels like butter, so my loyalty may be waning if I can't make the AM1 feel good. I really want to like this fork, but It's hard. Oh and the TST has needed bleeding twice in about a year.
Click to expand...
My 05 All mtn 1 is super buttery w/ zero notch feel. I have 05 All mtn sl that is super nothy that seems to get worse with higher pos psi...I am getting close to give up on that fork but it only has 300-400 mies so I will prolly keep it little longer. Everyhting is All mtn 1 is stock...added some oil in the ETA side to bottom out less or make it a bit progresssive. I weigh (no gear) 155lbs and run 20psi in the TST chamber. Rebound is somwhere in the middle or few clicks faster. Run AM- setting most of the time. DS setting on TST brake dives too much and AM & AM+ suffers from high speed compression spike; I do use these settings from time to time depending on speed and terrain I ride. But I am sure you are already know that.

Though I have not epxeprienced "clunking issue" but I am aware of it. Two things you can try: increase the rebound or/and reduce TAS travel 5-6 clicks (lower the travel) from what it's currently at. I have a feeling that you have try them, however.
 
#19 ·
Nope. IMO, All mtn 1 is better for your application than Fox Float RLC based on two choices you are pondering over.

Every fork out there has some quarky issue. Some worse than the other. It just comes down to what you willing to tolerate as long as it brings greater "fun" factor during ride. Everyone has different definition of "fun" when out riding.
 
#20 ·
Danny A said:
So what are you tring to say? Go with the Fox Float 140 (2007)?
Click to expand...
Yes. I am a big fan of Zoke, but I can call it when they make a stinker. While I don't doubt the opposing comments here, the resounding opinion of the AM is that it's not as good as it is on paper. Anything with this much of an opposing following and comments about the finickiness of the tuning and special notes and yadda yadda should make you think. I'm not going to fight about it, but think about it like this: I bought one, then sold it and shelled out extra for a 20mm wheel because I was so disappointed with the AM on several levels. They are now adding 20mm, but that doesn't resolve the shortcomings of the TST, so that argument doesn't work for me. Between two 150mm, 20mm trailbike forks (2007 AM at 160 or so), one having travel adjust and ETA, one only having ETA, one with a better damper that is the feature one needs to use 100% of the time, I'd say the Z.1 RC2 is the clear winner, even lacking travel adjust.

Putting the AM against the Fox 140, the 20mm lower on the AM is a plus, but don't forget that the Fox is a 140mm travel fork. The Fox has a better damper and is less complicated. It's a fine fork, in my opinion.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
About this Discussion
21 Replies
6 Participants
Last post:
All Mountain
Mountain Bike Reviews Forum
posts
16M
members
534K
Since
1990
A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
General Discussion Downhill - Freeride California - Norcal Shocks and Suspension Passion