So Mo Bike Access In Jeopardy?

ShortBusJames · Apr 16, 2007

While running the shuttle bus this morning at South Mountain, I was approached by one of the rangers. She informed me that last Sunday (Easter) there was an incident involving a hiker on Holbert trail. It seems that this lady was somehow injured by a bicyclist (downhiller?) and managed to lose her dog as well. This person was all fired up and told the ranger that she wanted to get the media involved and get bikes removed from Holbert. I guess the ranger diffused the situation and the person hasn't gone to the media yet.
I informed the ranger that none of the riders on the short bus had ridden Holbert on the day in question and that there are other groups that shuttle on the mountain. I assured the ranger that I inform all riders to be courteous to other trail users, as our ability to ride there is a privelege.
I just want to urge all riders to be careful and considerate of others while enjoying our trails. It doesn't take much for bikes to be denied access to trails (check out Cali and other places).
The ranger also informed me that next week is Silent Sunday and vehicles will not be allowed in the park. I was also told that it may become a monthly event. I will keep everyone posted.
James

bikerideAZ · Apr 16, 2007

Bunch of stuffy ass new people that just purchased 800k+ homes and now they want to be the only ones with access to "their" new found trails. This is just like the parking nazi guy trying to bogart the trail entrance because he lived right there.

I'm amazed that locals near telegraph can handle riders all of the time, but it's those people that show up once or twice a year that have problems.

By the way, my assumption is without a shred of evidence and completely unfounded, but I like it that way. Also, only downhillers like downhillers. muahahahaaaaa

pwrtrainer · Apr 16, 2007

why doesnt the city of phoenix jyst make more signs that make people and bikers aware of the rules. most riders know and most hikers know, but a reminder in areas that seem to be the higher risk zones to slow down, or watch out might help tons. most of the time people just get scared, and get pissed. just a thought though.
p.s. the natzi was a beotch!

Rover Nick · Apr 16, 2007

We need to get some sort of orginization for mountain bikers. I think that people woould take our side if we speak up. The thing that I see being a big threat is not speaking up. If a hiker is claiming things, true or untrue things, they are going to get the attention if noone speaks up about it.

Also, I think that more trail works days would help us alot. If we are helping clean up or fixing up or just small odd jobs on the mountain, it would help get us more support.

If the media gets involved than I see a very big chance of the mountain being shut down, so I think we need a couple of buffers to prevent that.

Guest · Apr 16, 2007

In my opionion there has been a real bad vibe on the mountain as of late. It is always crowded, somedays overly crowded and it seems alot of "new" users are making their way outdoors. This is nothing against any group, I have seen wrongs commited by all types of people lately and something needs to be done about it. Common curtosy has all but disappeared on the trails and I find its hard enough to get a fellow moutain biker to give you a friendly hello or nod, let alone some of the hikers. You have hikers walking 5 across on the trails making it all but impossible to get around them, you have bikers bombing down the fireroad, hitting the jumps along the side and yielding to no one as well as guys blowing down past both hikers and cyclists coming uphill like they forgot to install a set of brakes on their bike. Its only a matter of time before an accident is bound to happen which is going to result in tighter restrictions on the cyclists. Hopefully it'll hurry up and get hot so people go back indoors....

cannonballtrail · Apr 16, 2007

There was actually a statistic in a mtb magazine years ago in reference to Cali, sorry I forgot which one, but bikers spend 90% of their time riding and less than 1% on trail access, while hikers spend 26% hiking and 60% on trail access.

Now that Arizona is becoming Arifornia I am actually very concerned about trail access and open space. Rover Nick is right about speaking up and adding trail work days. A good relation to the Park Commission will really go along way in keeping the trails open and if we don't speak up someone else will.

BelaySlave · Apr 16, 2007

Rover Nick said:
We need to get some sort of orginization for mountain bikers.

Dumb question of the morning since I don't live there.....

Considering the size of Phoenix and all of Maricopa County....y'all really don't have any type of MTB organization down there? Heck up here in Boise and the Treasure Valley we have SWIMBA (Southwest Idaho Mountain Biking Association). Your forum seems very active with rides and whatnot....I guess I'm suprised there isn't an organization down there already.

BTW....I was down at SoMo several Saturdays ago and it was 7:30am....the parking lot off of 24th was already packed. Looked to be mostly a hiker/runner parking lot cuz I just didn't see alot of bike racks on cars. I could definately see the potential for more and more biker v. hiker/runner conflicts with as big as the valley is growing.

And yes....I wanna be one of those new migrants....errr maybe in the next 10-15 years or so.

kcreative · Apr 16, 2007

I live right off the Desert Classic trail and ride it about 3 times a week. The trail is getting much more crowded, espically on the weekends and I've seen a number of situations where bikers & hikers could be more courtesy to each other. I've seen bikers racing by hikers expecting hikers to get out of the way. Also seen hikers plugged in to an ipod and would never get off the trail, much less look back.

As a rule, I always slow down for hikers, make sure they see me and try not to scare them. For the most part, even though they have the right of way, most of them will get off the trail and let the bikers go by as a common courtesy. I always say "thank you" and I think they appreciate that.

Some hikers don't know the rules, but if you are going to ride, you need to be accountable for your actions. It only takes one bad biker to piss off a hiker. I hope we can all be more aware of our riding actions and leave a good vibe while passing the hikers.

pwrtrainer · Apr 16, 2007

then lets do something! lets get a group started here, i know we all have friends who arent using mtbr so we need to get the word to them as well. all i know is the system in place to get the info across is not working. the confusing ass signs and unspoken rules are not getting the point across. if someone wants to get their voices heard, they will find a way. just piss off the wrong hippie and watch what happens. we have a huge group of riders here that all pretty much know the rules, maybe we need to propose a viable solution. just being there is one thing, having an answer is another. what do you think would make things easier, and how do we get that information to all the paople involved? i have ridden down holbert and had many people say they had never seen bikers on the trail, maybe they need to have a sign that says, caution bikers, and we need one that says caution hikers. that way we cant say we didnt warn them about the bikers, and we didnt know about them. im sick of hearing all kinds of blab on here about SOMO and noone says anything about it. i know MBAA has some afiliation with trail work, but they are not too involved in SOMO i believe. if that rock gets closed to me, i think that kill me.

Guest · Apr 16, 2007

I understand that we have the MBAA, but I havn't seen it do a whole lot since I have been here, there needs to be an organization that is CONSTANTLY involved. When I was Michigan we had MMBA ( http://mmba.org/ ) and when I was in Chicago we had CAMBR ( http://cambr.org ). These organizations were responsible for being the voice of the riders and interfacing with the parks districts, setting up trail work days, lobbying for new trails to be cut and dealing with the general PR of the mountain biking community in the area as a whole. These organizations were set up as non profit corporations and have an appointed/elected board of directors as well as staff. The MMBA was great, they really made an impact on the trail systems throughout Michigan and were responsible for setting up many "Biker First" trails which were 1 way trail loops in which hikers were warned at the trail head that bikes were present.

They also were one of the first bike associations to join the National Bike Patrol similar to the National Ski Patrol. Volunteers who are trained in first aid and general bike repair patrol the trails looking for and helping people in need. (Great excuse to ride!) THIS ALONE would greatly help get the cause rolling on South Mountain and make the bikers who use it look as though they actually care about the well being of not only other cyclists, but all the users of the mountain. I understand that being in the state we are in provides a large amount of areas we are able to ride, maybe this is the downfall of the MBAA, as there is simply too much to try to monitor and maintain. Maybe the solution is a Phoenix area mountain bikers association.

Casual Observer · Apr 16, 2007

bikerideAZ said:
Bunch of stuffy ass new people that just purchased 800k+ homes and now they want to be the only ones with access to "their" new found trails. This is just like the parking nazi guy trying to bogart the trail entrance because he lived right there.

I'm amazed that locals near telegraph can handle riders all of the time, but it's those people that show up once or twice a year that have problems.

By the way, my assumption is without a shred of evidence and completely unfounded, but I like it that way. Also, only downhillers like downhillers. muahahahaaaaa

Totally agree. If she was injured by a biker and lost her dog, she MUST be at fault.
Sigh!

Clanky · Apr 16, 2007

This isn't a new problem (as you all know) at SM. When I lived in Tempe in the late 90's this was an issue on SM. I know Phoenix was big then and has only grown (and will continue to grow) exponentially. Thats why I always rode in the summer later in the morning, afternoon etc. When the day heats up there are considerably less people on the trails . I know that sooo many people have moved there over the past decade from milder climes and refuse to ride after 8am . Thats crap. You moved to the desert now live there. Ride during the day. It's really not that hard to get used to. Just take extra water and you're golden.

But the best answer is definitely more trail advocacy. With as many riders as there are in the Pheonix area this really should be priority among MTB'ers. There used to be a small goup of us that would go to McDowell (cactus cup days) or SM and do trail work or hand out pamplets in the parking lot on proper trail edicate.

cannonballtrail · Apr 16, 2007

Ipoop

kcreative said:
Also seen hikers plugged in to an ipod and would never get off the trail, much less look back.

Great Point!! I have said very politely on numerous occassions "biker on your left" and people can't hear because of their stupid ipods and then yell at me for scaring them even when I slowed down and tried to be respectful. I am for a Pod Ban on trails or more snakes.. guess they can't hear them either. Even some mtbers are plugged in and completely unaware of their surroundings. What you can't go 3-4 hours without your music? If the trails are so boring that you need to take your music, then stay home!

There really is no cohesive AZ mountain bike organization and no groups in Phoenix. Albuquerque=Fooriders, Las Cruces=BMBA, Oklahoma=OKEarthBike just to name a few. The local AZ bike community has really great vibes, the best MTBR Forums, and a very positive feeling, but unfortantly Phoenix is known in the cycling community outside AZ as a great place for winter training. The snowbirds take it for granted that such trails exist and by April they are long gone after contributing 0 to the local riding community. We have to get people interested in Phoenix as a year round riding community that extends beyond just Nova Nationals, 24 Hrs in Old Pueblo, and winter training.

Dirdir · Apr 16, 2007

I am not convinced that trail education is the issue. Anyone that plows into a hiker and/or rides dangerously, fails to yield, etc., is, in my opinion, already aware that he/she is in the wrong, but they just don't care. How hard is it to figure that one out?

GueroAZ · Apr 16, 2007

Clanky said:
But the best answer is definitely more trail advocacy.

No offense to this poster....his idea a great solution to this problem. The truly best answer is for every rider to adhere to the rules of the trail and yield to the hiker. I always slow until I see the hiker move off, when he/she does I always thank them. If he/she doesn't then I unclip and work my way around. This works 99% of the time. When I pass one of the 1% I just be nice and say have a good day. I always let the hiker/jogger be the jerk if he/she absolutely wants to.

I was on DC yesterday and it was really crowded and I saw riders not giving right-of-way to other riders going up-hill. We have all ducked off at the last minute to let the climber go but these guys just held their line.

I have also seen DC riders just blow by hikers without even a word. Is your exercise worth more than courtesy? If you really feel the need for speed take it to one of the 3 race courses where it belongs. If not, respect others right to enjoy multi-use trails. This isn't rocket science.

Guest · Apr 16, 2007

I agree, the jerks will be jerks, but how to tell them they are jerks seems to be one of the questions at hand. I have resigned to riding Javelina lately, even when all the other trails are slammed, hardly anyone is ever on that on. As for letting people go by, If I am at the top of a downhill and see anyone heading up I just wait until they get up to the top. What's waiting a few minutes? The other day I was at the top of Javelina and saw 2 guys pedaling up it, I just sat and waited, 2 other guys rolled up and I told them to get in line. They didn't quite see the humor in it until they saw the other 2 riders heading up.

Clanky · Apr 16, 2007

Dirdir said:
I am not convinced that trail education is the issue. Anyone that plows into a hiker and/or rides dangerously, fails to yield, etc., is, in my opinion, already aware that he/she is in the wrong, but they just don't care. How hard is it to figure that one out?

So true, but the point is to be seen by the walking/hiking public as trying to make a difference, to let them know that, as a community, the majority of the cyclist out there are courteous. This could make a difference between a hiker saying " I ran into one douchebag biker today but the majority have excellent trail etiqutte." instead of " I'm going to the media because ALL cyclists on SM are reckless"

mtnbykr06 · Apr 16, 2007

Ok, about the organization:
As BelaySlave said it, when I lived in Boise we had/have SWIMBA. An awesome organization. Basically it is a membership thing, and is volunteer. I was a Board Member for the time that I lived there. But basically, all the money that was paid for membership dues was to put on fundraising activities that paid for things like new trails, and what-not. We worked with the local trail keepers (Ridge to Rivers) to maintain and build new trails. A lot of people would become members, but not really do anything. They just wanted to help out financially.

It is a lot more detailed, but my fingers are really cold right now and I can't type worth a damn.

Paul B · Apr 16, 2007

Dirdir said:
I am not convinced that trail education is the issue. Anyone that plows into a hiker and/or rides dangerously, fails to yield, etc., is, in my opinion, already aware that he/she is in the wrong, but they just don't care. How hard is it to figure that one out?

These douchebag riders could just as easily be wondering what the hell is wrong with hikers who won't get out of the way when they're so obviously in danger.

There really is no upper limit on stupidity and selfishness.

p.

bikerideAZ · Apr 16, 2007

Perhaps if there were signs in the parking lots giving credit to specific groups for their trail work then hikers would be more away. For example: "Mormon loop Trail maintained by AZ Mountain Bike Club"

Also, why do I not see huge volunteer sign up sheets or fliers around trail entrances? When people yell at me I usually just yell back "when was the last time you've volunteered any trail maintenance time on this trail? I do a few times a year and all you do is b!tch and moan."

I also throw rocks at hikers sometimes so I don't have much room to talk. All they have to do is catch me if they don't like it.

So Mo Bike Access In Jeopardy?

ShortBusJames

bikerideAZ

pwrtrainer

Rover Nick

Guest

cannonballtrail

BelaySlave

kcreative

pwrtrainer

Guest

Casual Observer

Clanky

cannonballtrail

Dirdir

GueroAZ

Guest

Clanky

mtnbykr06

Paul B

bikerideAZ

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