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Dirty Jay

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
What do you guys think about these two? is any one part better for either one? if so what?
I keep seeing X.0, X7, X9....XT, XTR- what's the 411- LBS wasn't welling to compare gave me the BS run around. All I was told, they (LBS) was glad someone else had finely putting out a product that could compete with Shimano. My main issue is with shifters, but I want to know about any other stuff, parts, issues with either brand.
 
Both are good

I don't understand this question:

is any one part better for either one? if so what?

Please explain what you're asking and we'll try to answer. In short, both companies make good shifters and derailleurs. Comparing their products to each other is kind of difficult, as both company's products are different. That's why the LBS wouldn't compare them. From a marketing perspective X.0 and XTR are both manufacturer's high end offerings. From there, X.9 plays against XT, X.7 against LX.

I happen to prefer the SRAM products, as I have bikes with both offerings. It's really a matter of personal taste and preference.

Bob
 
The primary difference for me was in the basic tuning of the rear derailleurs. I found that my XTR would come out of adjustment ever so slightly every few rides where as the X.9/X.7 rarely ever has to be tuned. I think this has to do with the actuation ratios: Shimano is 2:1 and SRAM is 1:1. I also like that the cable doesn't loop way out behind the frame, like Shimano does, and the derailleur has less slap on the frame. It's much quieter than Shimano.

I've always been a fan of the Grip Shift style shifters, too. Only SRAM makes those, but you can get some compatible with Shimano derailleurs to mix the brands. The GS shifter for the front der. allows you to trim out any chain rub, which is nice.

I've have always run a Shimano product as the front der. because the SRAM stuff just isn't quite there yet in terms of function - they're a little too heavy and a lot of people have had set up issues.

As far as cassettes go, I think they're pretty equal. I think Shimano has a lighter part in the comparable models, but it's not significant enough not to buy SRAM. I like to keep brands together, so because I'm running the SRAM chain (for the Powerlink), I keep a SRAM cassette. If I had Shimano cranks up front, I think I'd be more compelled to run an all Shimano drive train.

There are small detailed differences between the two, but overall, I prefer SRAM. At a certain point in biking one becomes very detail oriented and this is where SRAM shines, IMO.
 
I prefer SRAM shifters (thumb/thumb, instead of thumb/index finger or integrated with brake levers). Also, I like the fact that with SRAM you do not have the big loop of cable above the rear deraileur. In cranks, I think Shimano is hard to beat.
 
Looks like I could be swimming against the tide here; the only drivetrain components I use by SRAM are a Rollamajig (to make my Shimano derailleur work properly) and a Powerlink (to let me open and close my Shimano and KMC chains for free every time). I've never used SRAM derailleur or shifters, but I can't recall ever hearing anything (reasonable) said against them. I'd like to try a SRAM shifter for my rear derailleur, so I probably will.
(9speed) Chains and cassettes, in my experience, are where SRAM really seem to go pear-shaped. I've tried up to 991 sort of range and didn't rate a single one of them. Both chains and cassettes wear way too quickly for my liking and none performed particularly well, either. I ended up with an XT cassette (currently has over 1000 miles on it and will still take a new chain without question) and XTR/Dura-Ace or KMC X9 chains. Both of these chains have and do consistently outperform and outlast any SRAM offering I've ever tried. For what it's worth, I've used SRAM chains with both SRAM and Shimano cassettes, and vice versa. Currently, the KMC X9 is slightly ahead of the XTR in my estimations; it shifts very cleanly and has no obvious problems as far as longevity is concerned.
Peace,
Steve
 
I prefer Shimano though i really couldn't tell you why. I've had both and neither one gave me issues. MY only true preference would be when it came to the shifters. I like triggers better. I have the new 07' on my Blur LT and find it cool that you can shift from either side. Origonally i thought it was just a silly marketing tactic (it is a marketing tactic, just not as silly as i thought)- but if i were to line up the 3 shifter types now: sram vs. old shimano vs. new shimano. New Shimano would win hands down. I was amazed how in one ride they felt completely natural to pull sometimes and push at other times. I though about shifting the first 3-4 miles but after that i just did what felt natural. Really surprised me to find i was a switch shifter. Haha

Oh yeah, What was the origonal question anyway?
 
ok...as for comparisons so you know roughly what apple (SRAM) equals what orange (Shimano):

XTR = X.O
XT = X.9
LX = X.7
Deore = X.5 or there abouts.

Both companies make good components, but as you can see from the previous posts, there is a lot of personal preference and feel involved with some people liking one brand over the other. SRAM had, until 2007, been the only one offering a trigger shifter pod where both up and down shifts were made with the thumb...shimano has now followed suit. Shimano continues to have the only shifter/brake combo unit.

Actuation ratios are generally noted as 2:1 for shimano and 1:1 for SRAM, but those are for convenience....the actuals are like 1.7:1 for shimano and 1.4:1 for SRAM...regardless, mixing and matching derailleurs and shifters is not generally recommended because of the differences.

As for other components (chains, casettes, cranks and so on) there is a lot of personal preference. Some like the powerlink of SRAM (no tool to change or repair a chain) while others like the security and strength of Shimano's pin system. I've personally had no issues with my SRAM casettes, however there are those who feel they don't last as long and swear by Shimano. Same goes for cranks, however I personally lean a little more towards the Shimano vs. Truvativ (SRAM's counterpart/part of the same parent company) when it comes to cranks.

Hope it helps.
 
Psycho Mike said:
ok...as for comparisons so you know roughly what apple (SRAM) equals what
I was sure it was going to be "what apple (SRAM) equals what microsoft (Shimano)" :)

The word "preference" has come up so many times now that it must mean something...
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Really??

then why is Apple putting Windows on Macs now??? I would think such a better product wouldn't be replaced with Windows!
Worse thing to ever happen to Apple will be Windows:cryin: Why even call it Apple now? How about Bill's Other Box or BOB for short:rolleyes:
Sorry this is OT
 
Nah...I like just how Linux-like OS X has gotten...if it weren't for the fact that I do far too much that is expensive to switch over, I'd likely go with a Mac or a Linux box.

Oh well....nice thing about building systems...it's a little cheaper to boost things to overcome Billy's stupid amount of overhead in his OS. (Earth to Bill...try streamlinging the code before releasing Vista....XP is a pig and 2x the size of a decent Linux release)
 
Dirty Jay said:
then why is Apple putting Windows on Macs now??? I would think such a better product wouldn't be replaced with Windows!
Worse thing to ever happen to Apple will be Windows:cryin: Why even call it Apple now? How about Bill's Other Box or BOB for short:rolleyes:
Sorry this is OT
The sky is falling... who says Apple is putting Windows on their computers??? they switched to Intel processors... but Windows... come on, be serious!

I admit some people (not Apple) have found ways to run Windows in Macs and Apple has provided some utilities for doing such....
 
my impressions

both companies make good products

but shimano make great products

I work for a major (in the top 10) bike shop, we sell 30 plus custom bikes a month in the winter, and not crap, (intense, turner, ellsworth, foes, yeti, moots)

I been a professional mechanic for 18 years in one of the nations better areas for the sport the southwest

I'm telling you my experience, in order to explain the good great comment.

I've seem all manner of off road components, from campy (record OR), suntour, sachs, shimano, and various other random makes so i've seen crappy, good and great come and go

I would love to declare SRAM the winner and and wave the flag and hold up a beer to our chicago bros in salute. problem is they've yet to impress me.

Some history:

SRAM/Shimano used to be the coke vs. pepsi debate, but sram lost that battle

you use to have to use bass worms, gore cables, accessory spring upgrades for derailleurs, just to get SRAM gripshift to work for any reasonable time and they were fragile. meanwhile little sachs made a twist shifer that worked but was little known.

sram didn't improve they bought sachs for the shifter and chains, and did the bike industry a disservice by killing off the one really good source of freewheels for older bikes

on another front where they lost in my book is that theyre falling all over themselves (including patent infringement) to make triggers, after spending years telling us twist was superior.

they claim their push push trigger is better than shimano push pull, conveniently forgetting shimano invented that years ago it was called rapidfire (push push) as opposed to the current rapidfire plus (push pull) shimano is sueing and SRAM has to place the levers awkwardly to keep from looking like outright copycats. (you should see them squirm at interbike at the mere mention of taking the adjustable lever and putting it under the trigger on the x.o)

their front derailleur is not up to the level they need to be

we get a lot of DOA components, and the rear derailleurs break more often.

but they do work well they just need a lot of time to evolve to the refinement XTR has, but XTR is more expensive, and every few years shimano decides to push crap on us like low normal/rapidrise.

the best mechanic in any of your areas can make either group sing and last

the worst mechanics can have more success with SRAM because the 1:1 ratio is more tolerant of maladjustment

SRAM chainusers wreck their drivetrains more often because of a false sense of security from the power link, as if putting the chain through a weekly degreasing regiment makes it last longer, and they alway forget about chain stretch, and hang on to their $50 pc-991's like their gold. I prefer to think of my chains as disposable and put a new $30 XTR chain on at least 3 time a year, and i save money on cassettes and chainrings.

lets hope SRAM keeps pushing 'cuz theyve made great strides, but theyre not quite there

in my opinion

discuss
 
Dirty Jay said:
then why is Apple putting Windows on Macs now??? I would think such a better product wouldn't be replaced with Windows!
Worse thing to ever happen to Apple will be Windows:cryin: Why even call it Apple now? How about Bill's Other Box or BOB for short:rolleyes:
Sorry this is OT
Um, Apple is not putting Windows on their machines. They switched to Intel chips, a byproduct of which is the ability to run Windows on an Apple machine, but the OS is still the same. There are now programs that allow the USER to install Windows on a partition so that the machine can be booted into either OS. This is actually very useful for those who like Mac OS for most things but want/need to run some Windows only programs for some reason. I have a friend who is in this very situation. He wanted a Mac for years but has a Windows app that he has to use for work. Now he is finally able to own a Mac AND use his Windows program. BTW, he purchased TWO Macs, not exactly the worst thing to happen to Apple.

Oh, and SRAM.
 
windows the worst thing?............that's just koolaid drinking mac zealotry talking.

a computer is a computer regardless of OS, if you can run it and are satisfied with it than who cares.

right now as it sits its business and the gaming young who us windows and artsy types and old people (recent survey) who use apple.

when comes to hardware, apple makes the nicest desktop machines and lenovo and apple share top billing for best notebooks.

so here's a wrinkle in the mac zealot handbook............

Windows is the trojan horse apple is using to gain market share in both hardware and OS

sounds like the best thing they ever did to me


Discuss
 
SRAM and Sach

Apple mainly sells computers and Microsoft mainly sells software!

If SRAM bought out the better product Sach then they should have allowed the Sach management to improve their product. Maybe they should have kept the Sach name and allowed them compete while they market the product and profit.
 
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