I finally pulled the trigger and snagged a Fournales off Fleabay before they are all gone. The concern about crown to axel height that Nino predicted had me worried but the good news is that the crown to axel is actually shorter then on my Sid by 5mm! I measured 445mm for the Look and 450mm for the Sid. Sweet.:thumbsup: The other good news is that it's really stiff. I can't really get any latereal flex out of the carbon legs at all. Lots of room for bolt tuning. It uses heavy steel hardware throughout so with some basic bolt tuning work I should get it down maybe by as much as 70 to 100g. We will see. I figure that a frame with a 110mm headtube will fit spot on with an American Classic headset. No spacers needed and my bar height should be nice and low as I like it.
Linkage Fork Project Progresses......
Axis II
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I finally pulled the trigger and snagged a Fournales off Fleabay before they are all gone. The concern about crown to axel height that Nino predicted had me worried but the good news is that the crown to axel is actually shorter then on my Sid by 5mm! I measured 445mm for the Look and 450mm for the Sid. Sweet.:thumbsup: The other good news is that it's really stiff. I can't really get any latereal flex out of the carbon legs at all. Lots of room for bolt tuning. It uses heavy steel hardware throughout so with some basic bolt tuning work I should get it down maybe by as much as 70 to 100g. We will see. I figure that a frame with a 110mm headtube will fit spot on with an American Classic headset. No spacers needed and my bar height should be nice and low as I like it.
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Cool! Your bike will look like a preying mantis or maybe a wolf spider.
I'm disappointed with my Spinner Ares's performance. I will try some (heavy) 2.25 tires and see if that helps but otherwise - if the season were not coming to a close - I would be getting this fork or more likely the Kilo despite the slight rise in geometry. In fact there is a new kilo "no. 1" that is supposed to be even better now that would be sweet. TBH, I should just get a more traditional fork (Fox, Reba or Marz) but the linkage stuff is really interesting.
http://www.german-a.de/99grad/content/language_DE/daten_kilo_carbon.html?&flash=1&&languageID=DE#
This here fork is claimed 1080 grams (w or w/o shock?).
I'm disappointed with my Spinner Ares's performance. I will try some (heavy) 2.25 tires and see if that helps but otherwise - if the season were not coming to a close - I would be getting this fork or more likely the Kilo despite the slight rise in geometry. In fact there is a new kilo "no. 1" that is supposed to be even better now that would be sweet. TBH, I should just get a more traditional fork (Fox, Reba or Marz) but the linkage stuff is really interesting.
http://www.german-a.de/99grad/content/language_DE/daten_kilo_carbon.html?&flash=1&&languageID=DE#
This here fork is claimed 1080 grams (w or w/o shock?).
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I'm really pleased with the quality of this fork from visual inspection. The CF weave is brilliant and the machining of the Al is amazing. I can't wait to get it up and running. If Look had used Ti hardware for the large pivot linkage bolts I think this could have been a 1200g fork easily. For the price I paid I'm pleased. I basically got it for well under half of the cost of a Sid World Cup. The money I saved here on the fork will go into other areas of the new FS build.Slobberdoggy said:
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What does the shock weigh and is it a standard i2i and stroke?
And don't overlook the shock mounting hardware for tuning...
BM
And don't overlook the shock mounting hardware for tuning...
BM
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Nino seems to be prejudiced again linkage forks enough to make up lies about them. My Noleen Crosslink, which has 75mm of travel, is a good INCH shorter in crown to axle length than an 80mm travel Rockshox Sid. Linkages like Amp forks might have been taller for their travel than a telescopic, but ones like Look and Noleen and Quasar weren't. Since Amp no longer makes forks... and nobody used linkages like them... he outta stop talking about stuff he seems to know nothing about.
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big BS...
i was referring to the German-A which is A LOT longer than conventional fork. and i am quite a bit surprised you say i have no experience on linkage forks.
i had the first Mongoose Amplifier (AMP) FS bike many,many years ago. it was basically the first working FS bike back then and was quite a step ahead compared to the Mag 21s used back then.
my friend Andy bought the Look/Fournales fork when they hit the market and we never got that fork to work as it should and it didn't have any advantage other than it's ugly look
oh Boy,DeeEight said:
i was referring to the German-A which is A LOT longer than conventional fork. and i am quite a bit surprised you say i have no experience on linkage forks.
i had the first Mongoose Amplifier (AMP) FS bike many,many years ago. it was basically the first working FS bike back then and was quite a step ahead compared to the Mag 21s used back then.
my friend Andy bought the Look/Fournales fork when they hit the market and we never got that fork to work as it should and it didn't have any advantage other than it's ugly look
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Well, here's you about two weeks ago on the Founnales:nino said:oh Boy,
i was referring to the German-A which is A LOT longer than conventional fork. and i am quite a bit surprised you say i have no experience on linkage forks.
i had the first Mongoose Amplifier (AMP) FS bike many,many years ago. it was basically the first working FS bike back then and was quite a step ahead compared to the Mag 21s used back then.
my friend Andy bought the Look/Fournales fork when they hit the market and we never got that fork to work as it should and it didn't have any advantage other than it's ugly look
and the Fournales got tested back then by german magazines as well and didn't shine in stiffness as well...so the only benefit you might see, the added rigidity, wasn't there. they all have longer axle to crown measurements compared to the same travel telescopic forks. your frame needs to be designed around such a fork otherwise your geometry gets ruined. we all remember the Horst Leitner designed AMP bikes. those were designed around the linkage fork and performed well for the time beeing.
You seem to be saying exactly that the crown to axel length is too long. Perhaps you forgot?
Anyway, I'd still be interested to learn more about what didn't work well with your bud Andy's fork. All the reviews on this site speak highly of it. Everyone on the WW forum raves about it. So far you are the only one talking trash about the Fournales.
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Well, that definately doesn't look interchangable with normal rear shocks....
BM
BM
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And I called him to the carpet on that statement, because he posted the test data and the look was only inferior to the SID in one of two stiffness tests (barely though). In the other, it was much better and the Sid was the worst in the test. He conveniently didn't bother to respond to me about it. Incidently AMP was basically the only maker to do linkage forks in that style so experience with them (which he's being selective about it seems) doesn't translate into experience with forks like the look, which followed the design of the Noleen/Girvin forks, and which is being DISCUSSED in this thread.Axis II said:Well, here's you about two weeks ago on the Founnales:
and the Fournales got tested back then by german magazines as well and didn't shine in stiffness as well...so the only benefit you might see, the added rigidity, wasn't there. they all have longer axle to crown measurements compared to the same travel telescopic forks. your frame needs to be designed around such a fork otherwise your geometry gets ruined. we all remember the Horst Leitner designed AMP bikes. those were designed around the linkage fork and performed well for the time beeing.
You seem to be saying exactly that the crown to axel length is too long. Perhaps you forgot?
As it happens, I too have used amp forks and in fact, have an F1 on a bike downstairs right now, and at 2" travel, its 16.5" long, WITHOUT sag. Amp was one of the first companies to tell owners to setup their suspension with SAG, in a time period everyone else was saying to setup with enough preload/air pressure not to sag at all. Meanwhile I have a Scott Unishocks, 16.5" length also, but only 1.75" travel. Hmmm.....
They probably refused to let him become a dealer for it. Its common locally for bike dealers to badmouth brands they cannot carry, or lost the accounts for (to another store).
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wrong...
i was just showing that the hype about super stiffness was just hot air.
i had such a fork, remember? so i sure could get it but i am no shop and i usually don't sell such big parts either.
hey, if you guys become happy with it great. i had a bad experience and especially the German-A which you guys never have seen live simply is too long. that's it.
the test showed the Look was even inferior to the SID and in the other test it couldn't be tested because the design didn't allow it to be tested like the other forks. so please next time look closer!DeeEight said:
i was just showing that the hype about super stiffness was just hot air.
i had such a fork, remember? so i sure could get it but i am no shop and i usually don't sell such big parts either.
hey, if you guys become happy with it great. i had a bad experience and especially the German-A which you guys never have seen live simply is too long. that's it.
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********...this is the data you presented us and nowhere does it say that in the test where the look BEATS the rockshox could they not test it. if they couldn't test it, how did they come up with a number for it?!?
![Image]()
If they couldn't test the lateral stiffness of the Look, then how do you know the sid is better? In the rotational stiff it was the worst, and the look was better than it.
Just keep making up **** about the fork nino. If you repeat a lie often enough, someone's bound to believe you.
If they couldn't test the lateral stiffness of the Look, then how do you know the sid is better? In the rotational stiff it was the worst, and the look was better than it.
Just keep making up **** about the fork nino. If you repeat a lie often enough, someone's bound to believe you.
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look closer!
in the second graph it says" Look LSF 2 (nicht messbar)" which means not measurable. just as i mentioned above the fork couln't be tested because of it's design. it wouldn't fit in the testmachine.
if you guys love that fork it's fine. i didn't.
by the way - i don't care about any stiffness readings. i use a really old SID myself and have no problems with it beeing flexy... i just wanted to show that all those comments about extra stiffness of the Look are just hot air, nothing more.
take it easy my dear,DeeEight said:********...this is the data you presented us and nowhere does it say that in the test where the look BEATS the rockshox could they not test it. if they couldn't test it, how did they come up with a number for it?!?
![Image]()
If they couldn't test the lateral stiffness of the Look, then how do you know the sid is better? In the rotational stiff it was the worst, and the look was better than it.
Just keep making up **** about the fork nino. If you repeat a lie often enough, someone's bound to believe you.
in the second graph it says" Look LSF 2 (nicht messbar)" which means not measurable. just as i mentioned above the fork couln't be tested because of it's design. it wouldn't fit in the testmachine.
if you guys love that fork it's fine. i didn't.
by the way - i don't care about any stiffness readings. i use a really old SID myself and have no problems with it beeing flexy... i just wanted to show that all those comments about extra stiffness of the Look are just hot air, nothing more.
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when did you leave kindergarden? did you leave it at allDeeEight said:
here's another test fo you. out of german Mountainbike-Magazine. that's a different one than the test i posted above which was out of german BIKE magazine.
http://www.mountainbike-magazin.de/look_fournaleslfs-1.31971.htm
i will translate:
fork lenght: 459mm (now i wonder what Axis measured? or maybe it's the magazine that got it wrong...who knows? maybe Axis still hadn't inflated the shock? anyway - i just print what the magazine writes.)
weight:1340g (22 points out of 25)
craftmanship/Quality: impressive work.each joint can be lubricated, shock had some slight oil loss after the test (9 points out of 10)
stiffness: especially when turning the fork is really soft . strange for a linkage fork.(3 points out of 10)
serviceability/maintenance: easy to maintain with grease ports. inflating is easy, rebound setup has to be done with allen key (9 points out of 10)
riding test:
on individual bumps it reacts pretty good. also on bigger hits it is decent. on a series of bumps it doesn't react and remains stuck. much overdamped. it remains compressed and delivers spikes. at the same time the steering precision is bad. (11 points out of 40)
rating: 54 points out of 100 possible
function: 2 stars (out of 5)
price: 1 star (out of five)
final verdict: technic and serviceability are where the Look is good. big disappointement once tested on the trails.
overall verdict: WEAK
ok - that's just another test on the Look/Fournales.
once again, maybe Axis finds a setup that suits him? this year they tested all sorts of XC-Forks as well where the Spinner Aeris also got pretty bad ratings because it had overdamped setting. well - i changed the oil and had a different setup and voila i got a great fork out of a fork that got a bad review....but i just wanted to repeat and show you that the Look isn't any stiffer and from what i remembered is also longer than conventional forks with the same amount of travel. that's it. i / we had that fork and couldn't find a setting that we liked and in addition it really felt weak in stiffness. so it now is hanging on the wall of another friends bike shop just as a nice piece of craftsmanship. i'm sure you could have got that fork for a sixpack of good bear
linkage forks
have been tested for yrs and yrs in the motorcycle industry, you see what is still used?
some of the traits that they claim to eliminate (brake dive, and shortening the wheelbase
through travel) are actually effects that help you corner. if your front end doesn't
settle in a corner it is harder to turn, just as your wheelbase being longer makes
it harder to turn. the bottom line is no fork will ever be perfect but there is no doubt
the telescopic forks are doing the least wrong. linkage forks are butt ugly to add.
have been tested for yrs and yrs in the motorcycle industry, you see what is still used?
some of the traits that they claim to eliminate (brake dive, and shortening the wheelbase
through travel) are actually effects that help you corner. if your front end doesn't
settle in a corner it is harder to turn, just as your wheelbase being longer makes
it harder to turn. the bottom line is no fork will ever be perfect but there is no doubt
the telescopic forks are doing the least wrong. linkage forks are butt ugly to add.
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fork lenght: 459mm (now i wonder what Axis measured? or maybe it's the magazine that got it wrong...who knows? maybe Axis still hadn't inflated the shock? anyway - i just print what the magazine writes.)
I'm not the most brilliant guy but I'm pretty confident with a ruler. Here is my best attempt with the ruler. Notice the precision and skill I have used in the balance and absolute symetry of alignment.:thumbsup: I actually get somewhere around 443mm (as close as I can tell) measured to the bottom of the fork crown race and the middle of the fork ends where the middle of the axle would be located. Make sense? BTW, I think measuring this distance with no air in the fork would actually result in a longer C to A measurement unlike a telescopic fork. Perhaps this is what the Germans did in their test? Also, the fork arrived devoid of any lube on the pivot points which resulted in very sticky action. I lubed all of the pivot points with Triflow and the resonsiveness improved very dramatically. I can see how this fork would tend to act like it was overdampened if you used it without adequate lubrication on the pivots.
I'm not the most brilliant guy but I'm pretty confident with a ruler.
Here is my best attempt with the ruler. Notice the precision and skill I have used in the balance and absolute symetry of alignment.:thumbsup: I actually get somewhere around 443mm (as close as I can tell) measured to the bottom of the fork crown race and the middle of the fork ends where the middle of the axle would be located. Make sense? BTW, I think measuring this distance with no air in the fork would actually result in a longer C to A measurement unlike a telescopic fork. Perhaps this is what the Germans did in their test? Also, the fork arrived devoid of any lube on the pivot points which resulted in very sticky action. I lubed all of the pivot points with Triflow and the resonsiveness improved very dramatically. I can see how this fork would tend to act like it was overdampened if you used it without adequate lubrication on the pivots.Attachments
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