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Cracked Hammerhead frame, advice please......

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#21 ·
Well until I get the chance to demo such a bike I'll stick to the theory that my Trance will go up against any 4" and do as well. To me it just doesn't seem worth it to spend as much on a frame as I spent on an entire bike. I am no seasoned rider who's got soft hands and takes the "easy line", I'm always looking at the hard route and bombing through rock gardens/whatever.

This is kind of like how I look at photography... I never owned any of the big Pro stuf, I always went for the higher end "ameture" stuff. I bought a Mamiya 645 for 1/3 less than a hassleblad for the exact same reason.

I just figure if the "cheaper" produced frames offer lifetime etc warranty's why shouldn't the better "hand crafted" botique ones - they're built better right, so the manufacturer should have no worries abut a 5 year warranty - RIGHT??? :confused:

As for the warranty I wasn't only talking of Titus, I was talking of botique bikes in general.

Warp2003 said:
I used to think the same about my Warp. Being it overbuilt, I used to think it was pretty solid and stiff (actually it is).. it's just that the Switchblade is way better. You'll never notice how much your wheels/tyres/fork/handlebar flex until you put them on a Titus.

There's a reason why they are priced that high. The performance difference is quite noticeable.

As for all the "offers" I'll get to ride against "your" Titus' I'll keep them in mind when I finally get up to the US. Maybe I'll have changed my tune by then, maybe not (more than likely not) but you never know, life is about learning and I've only been MTBing for 2+ years.

Now, if the perceived value difference is worth to you or not, that's another ticket.
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#23 ·
I have been out of the loop with a recent injury...

I knew Beth had been talking with the customer, and that he has been in touch with Titus
We will facilitate any warranty situation of course, but ultimately it's the manfacturer (for whatever product) that has final say in the matter.

I am glad he's being taken care of to his satisfaction
 
#24 ·
LyNx said:
Well until I get the chance to demo such a bike I'll stick to the theory that my Trance will go up against any 4" and do as well. To me it just doesn't seem worth it to spend as much on a frame as I spent on an entire bike. I am no seasoned rider who's got soft hands and takes the "easy line", I'm always looking at the hard route and bombing through rock gardens/whatever.
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You know I'm in the same boat. And after riding a Titus, I just kinda got the idea of the difference.

The Racer-X 100 would do better for you.

LyNx said:
This is kind of like how I look at photography... I never owned any of the big Pro stuf, I always went for the higher end "ameture" stuff. I bought a Mamiya 645 for 1/3 less than a hassleblad for the exact same reason.
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Same with me, brother! The most costly part of my bike is the frame! I got it second hand... and came away impressed. the difference would not be abismal to the Trance, but you'll notice it anyway.

LyNx said:
I just figure if the "cheaper" produced frames offer lifetime etc warranty's why shouldn't the better "hand crafted" botique ones - they're built better right, so the manufacturer should have no worries abut a 5 year warranty - RIGHT??? :confused:
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As someone mentioned above, with Giant/Trek/Spech/Cannondale's yearly invoicing, they can afford to replace a certain percentages of their products from time to time. Not a small company who depends on each and every bike sold. As many of these frames are made by hand or by higher paid personnel, the cost of replacing one is higher.

Also, many people riding lower end frames, replace them more often (not your case, I think), they will ride them less or the frame itself is overbuilt to take more abuse than expected usage... so, most will never get taken to its "red line".

A person buying a high end frame will ride it hard, will ask for less weight, will ride it more often. So the chances for a frame of this caliber to end its days early is very high.

However, most are better done or engineered. That's why you'll see many, many people still riding older Racer-X's, Switchblades, Quasi-Moto's, Locomotos, 5-Spots, Ventanas, etc. And that's also why they retain more resale value than a lower end frame.
 
#25 ·
LyNx said:
Well until I get the chance to demo such a bike I'll stick to the theory that my Trance will go up against any 4" and do as well. To me it just doesn't seem worth it to spend as much on a frame as I spent on an entire bike. I am no seasoned rider who's got soft hands and takes the "easy line", I'm always looking at the hard route and bombing through rock gardens/whatever.

This is kind of like how I look at photography... I never owned any of the big Pro stuf, I always went for the higher end "ameture" stuff. I bought a Mamiya 645 for 1/3 less than a hassleblad for the exact same reason.

I just figure if the "cheaper" produced frames offer lifetime etc warranty's why shouldn't the better "hand crafted" botique ones - they're built better right, so the manufacturer should have no worries abut a 5 year warranty - RIGHT??? :confused:

As for the warranty I wasn't only talking of Titus, I was talking of botique bikes in general.
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I can certanly see your point, but you haven't owned a boutiq bike yet...Have you? Most if not all the people here, and on any other (high end ) boutiqe frame have owned "a"/several production bikes. That's gotta tell ya something.
 
#26 ·
LyNx said:
Well until I get the chance to demo such a bike I'll stick to the theory that my Trance will go up against any 4" and do as well. To me it just doesn't seem worth it to spend as much on a frame as I spent on an entire bike. I am no seasoned rider who's got soft hands and takes the "easy line", I'm always looking at the hard route and bombing through rock gardens/whatever.
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Everybody's happy that you enjoy your Trance. MBA is clearly enjoying theirs.
 
#28 ·
it's always the engine that wins races
lance on a 50lb huffy would kill all of us on a 17lb all carbon road bike...


everyone knows that...

I can tell you that (and I seriously doubt it's a placebo effect) that the people that have gone from treks, specialized, etc.. to a titus, turner, etc.. have all reported back they LOVE their new bike
 
#30 ·
Thanks. I do believe that's supposed to be an insult, but I'm not insulted :D I think MBA isn't 1/2 bad as magazines go. They all have to pay the bills and be "nice" to the advertisers.

zorg said:
Everybody's happy that you enjoy your Trance. MBA is clearly enjoying theirs.
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#31 ·
Jerk_Chicken said:
Tons of people have gone from TE's to Specialized, too.
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What's their reasoning to do the move?
I'm positive that there's more than pure bike performance involved.

OTOH, I don't know of many people going from Titus / Turner to Spesh, but many have done the other way around.

More food for thought... is it just my impression or latest Specialized prices have gone too high (for a non-boutique bike)

An FSR frame is hitting 2200 bucks MSRP... with that money you can buy a Motolite, get a Pushed shock and still get some money for beers. All that for a frame that left the same factory as ONLY the front triangle of the ML.
 
#32 ·
LyNx said:
Thanks. I do believe that's supposed to be an insult, but I'm not insulted :D I think MBA isn't 1/2 bad as magazines go. They all have to pay the bills and be "nice" to the advertisers.
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Knowing Zorg, he wasn't being sarcastic. Check out his posts. He was being honest.

I also feel good you love your Trance. I know how difficult was for you to get it.
 
#33 ·
I would not be thrilled at $750 for a new frame. Or is that just for a new front triangle? The bloke with the broke SB that was 5yrs old, that was clearly being much harder on his frame than this, got a new free frame right? The new ML?
In that thread, Chris essentially said that Titus WOULD always take care of their owners regardless of the age of the frame.
It is not too coincidental that there are more than one broken rx frames with the same break? Come on Titus, step up.

This from the same SB break link above:
"I snapped the seat tube on my 02 Enduro by having the seat post up too high. Since it was clearly my fault, I dropped it off at the LBS hoping that they could find me a replacement front triangle. An hour later they called me and said that the seat tube crack was tiny compared to the two cracks on the rear shock mount that I never noticed before.

I got a warranty upgrade to a 06 Stumpjumper Pro frame and I WILL be checking over all of the bikes in the stable for hairline cracks on a regular basis from now on."

Frames that crack like this inside 4 years suck! I don't care what name they have on them. It is not like the guy was riding with only 20mm of seatpost stuck inside his frame...

Rensho,
-owner of a black 2004 rx100
 
#34 ·
LyNx said:
Thanks. I do believe that's supposed to be an insult, but I'm not insulted :D I think MBA isn't 1/2 bad as magazines go. They all have to pay the bills and be "nice" to the advertisers.
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Nah. I really don't care what each and everyone likes. At the end of the day, like others have said, it's the rider that makes the ultimate difference, not the bike.

Now, you're harping on how expensive Titus and other boutiques bikes are. Well, yes, we know. Actually, we know it very well cause we had to pay for it. Will it make me go any faster? Hardly. Do I have any regret? Hell, no. I love the way my Titus rides. Was it a completely rational purchase? Probably not, but it made me happy. :)

The whole point is that it's impossible to justify on performance alone the pricing differential between boutique bikes and the big 3. A Titus probaby costs 30%-40% more but it's not a 40% better bike. Now, I do personnally believe that Titus makes really top notch bikes with an awesome customer service to boot, and that was good enough for me. But to each his own. I'm glad you're happy with your purchase, since that's really what matters, but coming here and repeating over and over that the pricing differential does not make sense is getting a bit old. ;)
 
#35 ·
zorg said:
Now, you're harping on how expensive Titus and other boutiques bikes are. Well, yes, we know. Actually, we know it very well cause we had to pay for it. Will it make me go any faster? Hardly. Do I have any regret? Hell, no. I love the way my Titus rides. Was it a completely rational purchase? Probably not, but it made me happy. :)

The whole point is that it's impossible to justify on performance alone the pricing differential between boutique bikes and the big 3. A Titus probaby costs 30%-40% more but it's not a 40% better bike. Now, I do personnally believe that Titus makes really top notch bikes with an awesome customer service to boot, and that was good enough for me. But to each his own. I'm glad you're happy with your purchase, since that's really what matters, but coming here and repeating over and over that the pricing differential does not make sense is getting a bit old. ;)
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It's called "utility" and if you think it's worth worth the 30% to 40% more than it is a 40% better bike to YOU.
I test rode a Specialized Stumpjumper and a Titus RX and the Titus fit me better. I bought the RX100. I'm waiting for the reviews on the new '06s and I'll probably be replacing my '05 with a '07 if the carbon stays aren't having any problems. I think there is an option to get all aluminum stays though. Anyway, it looks like there is room for bigger tires with the new stays and that's the main reason why I'm interested.
 
#36 ·
I'm not harping, I'm just saying that (and I know a thing or 2 about custom built) a custom built bike should last longer than comparably made mass production bike sinc eit should have more care and attention to proper welds, heat etc in the production process.

Also the extra price is more than likely worth it and to certain riders or frame designs it makes a lot of difference. A mass produced frame wll work as good at first if things aren't line up perfectly, but after a while stuff will deteriate. i.e if the rear triangle, rockers and front triangle don't all line up square and shock stroke is just slightly off, this will cause wear in the shock causing possible seal failures/leaks, sticky suspension travel as well as cause bushings to wear prematurely & unevenly and play to occur.

This can be solved on the mass produced frames when you 1st get them by picking them down and checking alignment and making any corrections neccessary. For the custom small builders this should already have been done, hence better QC and time taken and higher price tag.

Personally I think I would love to give a Titus, Turner, Elsworth or such a ride. I love good craftsmanship and really appreciate it, unfortunately for most of us this comes at a price that we can't afford. However I do subscribe to the theory, that cheaper isn't always better, less expensive is better - buy a good product for 10-25% more and it might last you 3 times longer than said cheaper product. Sadly this is not always the case and a lot of products these days are just selling a name and not quality.

zorg said:
Now, you're harping on how expensive Titus and other boutiques bikes are. Well, yes, we know. Actually, we know it very well cause we had to pay for it.
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#37 ·
LyNx said:
I'm not harping, I'm just saying that (and I know a thing or 2 about custom built) a custom built bike should last longer than comparably made mass production bike since it should have more care and attention to proper welds, heat etc in the production process.

Also the extra price is more than likely worth it and to certain riders or frame designs it makes a lot of difference. A mass produced frame will work as good at first if things aren't line up perfectly, but after a while stuff will deteriate. i.e if the rear triangle, rockers and front triangle don't all line up square and shock stroke is just slightly off, this will cause wear in the shock causing possible seal failures/leaks, sticky suspension travel as well as cause bushings to wear prematurely & unevenly and play to occur.

This can be solved on the mass produced frames when you 1st get them by picking them down and checking alignment and making any corrections necessary. For the custom small builders this should already have been done, hence better QC and time taken and higher price tag.

Personally I think I would love to give a Titus, Turner, Elsworth or such a ride. I love good craftsmanship and really appreciate it, unfortunately for most of us this comes at a price that we can't afford. However I do subscribe to the theory, that cheaper isn't always better, less expensive is better - buy a good product for 10-25% more and it might last you 3 times longer than said cheaper product. Sadly this is not always the case and a lot of products these days are just selling a name and not quality.
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Yup, you are right. A good custom bike should be a longer lasting bike - everything else being equal.

Boutique bikes are typically lighter for the same strength. A lightweight production dually is rare enough that when one does appear it's newsworthy. Think Diamondback V-8 from years past, or the old Jamis Dakar's (Like back in '97). Normally a boutique brand is lighter for the same purpose - Extralight, Turner Nitrous, Ventana El Feugo. If the frames are the same weight as a comparable mass produced bike it should be even more durable.

Most other bikes tend to be different than comparable boutique brands. They may be heavily engineered (and therefore costly), weight more, or carry a comparatively shorter warranty. That and some of the mass produced bikes are almost boutique company pricing. (I'm not sure of the MSRP of a new Specialized Epic Carbon, but how does it compare to a Ti Exogrid Racer X). There are still quite a few companies that have lifetime warranties on their hardtails, but the duallies only have a 1, 2, or even 5 year warranty. i.e. Rocky Mountains are Lifetime for steel bikes, 5 years for XC duallies and most aluminum bikes, and 3 years for freeride bikes.

Specialized did do more limited warranties, but I think they're back to limited lifetime warranties.

Both of the bike companies above are pretty big compared to any boutique brand.

The length of the warranty is likely due more to financial resources of the company than the quality of the frame. Both Rocky and Specialized can charge just a little bit more per frame and offer a longer (or lifetime) warranty. A dozen frames over the course of the year isn't going to hurt their sales or profits. A dozen Racer-X frames, however... Ignoring the material costs - it means that the dozen frames are out of the supply chain for new customers, it takes the welder, painter, and all the people who help put that bike together time to crank out those dozen frames. It is a much larger hit financially for Titus.

I'm sure this is true of Ellsworth, Ventana, Turner just as it is of Titus.

The frames do cost more, but I don't know if it is all profit. The raw materials, attention to detail (i.e. Time), and that the frames are not mass produced in China in huge quantities does keep the price up. Otherwise Sherwood G and Dave T should be both worrying about should they take the Porche, Ferrari or Salleen to work today.

JmZ
 
#40 · (Edited)
Homebrew said:
It's definitely a design issue. The top tube is too low for the size of the bike. Mine is a 15.5 seat tube with a 23.5" top tube. It seemed like a good idea at the time. :rolleyes:
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Well, that idea is used by other manufacturers too..
I hope these pictures will show German brand Liteville (Syntace owned brand I think) bikes from German forum:
https://si6.mtb-news.de/fotos/data/500/medium/CIMG0752.JPG
https://si6.mtb-news.de/fotos/data/4481/medium/liteville29.jpg
which uses even lower top tube with smallish brace and huge seat post (length 48cm!!!).

What causes this failure, rider weight on seat post or shock action against frame or both?
I don't know anything about welding but would it be possible that cracked seat tube could repaired by welding a gusset on top of the crack? Not pretty and definitely not a first option.

Sorry for this babble but I'm kinda interested in what future might hold for my frame..
(edit, some spelling errors)
 
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