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Cracked Hammerhead frame, advice please......

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i1dry

· I wonder why?
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552 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
I just discovered that my 100X has a 1.25" crack in the seat tube just above the weld to the top tube. I have attached pics below.

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166151&stc=1&d=1147729484

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166133&stc=1&d=1147729484

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166152&stc=1&d=1147729484

As you can see by the pics I have plenty of seat post in the seat tube. I ride primarily loam based single track with lots of roots and very little rock, a few step drops of about one foot to steep transitions. Even though I'm 52 years young, I still ride hard and fast and I have good, if not excellent, bike handling skills. I'm not into hucking at all.

I also take very good care of my equipment. In fact, in over 35 years of riding I have only broken one frame and that was in 1982, the front drop out on a very old 10 speed road bike. One of my older bikes (Steve Baur Hurricane) lasted over 20 years. So, I'm really surprised to see a failure in the Hammerhead. It appears that the crack formed just above the weld and has grown from there.

I'm really bummed because I absolutely loved the bike.

I purchased the bike from Hammerhead in August 2002, so technically, it's not covered by warrantee.

I forwarded the pictures to Hammerhead and spoke with Beth. She forwarded them to Titus on my behalf. Titus has offered a new RX100 frame without shock for $750. I wasn't thrilled at the offer. She suggested that I call Titus to see if they would be willing to do more. I have a call in to Chris that I'm waiting to be returned.

Aside form the financial side of things, my problem is that the RX 100 is available in different sizing than the HH. I'm 5' 8.5 " tall and weight about 170 lbs. with gear, so I'm right between sizes on the RX100. Which is why I went with the HH in the first place.

Hammerhead has only one 23" frame left, but they want even more money than Titus.

All in all I'm not feeling good about Titus' or Hammerheads offer. In my opinion the frame should have never cracked in this area under "normal" riding conditions.

I've suggested that I would pay to upgrade to another frame perhaps one that could be customized, say a Motolite Exogrid, provided that I was credited a reasonable amount for the defective HH.

As a side note, I have been a very passionate supporter of Titus over the years since my purchase of the HH, my wife has a Motolite and a number of friends have purchased a Titus because of my ravings. I'm simply looking for fair and equitable treatment.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome.
:D
Thanks.

i1dry?
 

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#2 ·
Looks very familiar!

My HH100x broke in exactly the same spot. I got mine in Oct of 2002 and it broke in Oct of 2004. I had 4 or 5 days left on my warranty when it broke. I talked to Titus directly after consulting with Charles. The consensus was that, while I had plenty of seatpost in the frame, there was so much out of the frame that it put undue pressure on that junction. I had about 10" of post sticking out - probably about what you have out there. I've got pictures somewhere of the break and the post etc. I'll dig them out if I can find them.

The deal I got from Titus was a new custom front triangle (since I loved the geometry of the HH100x so much really the only custom part was the brace going from the seat tube to the top tube) for free with a new 2 year warranty, or a direct replacement - but if the direct replacement broke in the same place - no warranty replacement, or a Motolite for $750. If the Motolite came with a wider chainstay, I would have jumped on it, but at the time it would only accomodate 2.1 tires.

I went for the custom designed front triangle and its been great since then.

Curious that both our frames broke in the same place. Given that the bike is 4 years old, and the life expectancy of Aluminum (search Titus in the Passion forum and see that SM and Chris' response) I don't know if you have much of a case.

Good luck, let me know if you want me to dig out those pictures.

John
 
#3 ·
i1dry said:
All in all I'm not feeling good about Titus' or Hammerheads offer.
Click to expand...
Do you even know what wholesale is on a 2006 Racer X? $750 is a smokin' deal for a crash replacement...well below my cost as a dealer. I think Titus is being more than fair to you, especially considering your frame that is two years out of warranty. That's over $1000 off what a new frame would cost you! I doubt you'd get a better deal from any other boutique manufacturer.

i1dry said:
I'm simply looking for fair and equitable treatment.
Click to expand...
That is exactly what you are getting. This is the same deal Titus has offered some of my customers who have had issues outside of their warranty. Why do you think you deserve something better? Your bike is out of warranty period...Anything they do for you now is a favor and you should be grateful.

I'm so sick of people coming in to the shop and thinking they are entitled to something for free. :madman:
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Just spoke with Chris at Titus.......

....and he was very fair. The biggest challenge was deciding on a replacement frame that would most closely match the Hammerhead. In the end, I pretty much had to go with custom geometry to get the sizing I want. So I decided to pay the additional cash and upgrade to a Motolite Exogrid.

I can't wait. :D

Thanks Titus and Chris for excellent customer service.:)

i1dry?
 
#5 ·
i1dry said:
....and he was very fair. The biggest challenge was deciding on a replacement frame that would most closely match the Hammerhead. In the end, I pretty much had to go with custom geometry to get the sizing I want. So I decided to pay the additional cash and upgrade to a Motolite Exogrid.

I can't wait. :D

Thanks Titus and Chris for excellent customer service.:)

i1dry?
Click to expand...
Knowing the wholesale cost on these frames, I also thought the original offer was quite generous. As for the final solution, I'm even more impressed. Glad I bought a Titus. :)
 
#7 ·
Check your math...

AssClown said:
Do you even know what wholesale is on a 2006 Racer X? $750 is a smokin' deal for a crash replacement...well below my cost as a dealer. I think Titus is being more than fair to you, especially considering your frame that is two years out of warranty. That's over $1000 off what a new frame would cost you! I doubt you'd get a better deal from any other boutique manufacturer.
Click to expand...
$750 without a shock is not $1000 off. Subtrace off $350 for a new RP3 and the deal looks a lot more like $1100 new Racer-X. That would be a good deal but I wouldn't say that's a wow thanks hook-up. $300-$400 for a new front triangle would be a deal.

Santa Cruz has a MUCH better crash replacement deal. Something like $250.

Sorry I'm a little nerved about this because my HH frame also has a crack in the exact same spot (interestingly enough, same side too). I spared the forum the gory details though. Charles said it would be around $575 for a new RX front triangle. I wasn't thrilled with the offer either. Right now it's rotting in my garage because I'm not sure it's worth the cash to get it rolling again.
 
#9 ·
3 things I'm curious about.

1 - Does it say anywhere in the user manual/literature that you should not have more than X" of exposed seatpost, like how they say you should have at least X" of seatpost into the seattube?

2 - Why wasn't an offer made to weld the frame and add a custom brace from TT to ST like Jisc got?

3 - Why is it that this seems to be a common problem with that frame and it has not been addressed and people experiencing it duely compensated?
 
#11 ·
The fact that a Botique bike like this has a crappy 4 year warranty :confused: and the cheaper Giant's, Trek's and such have longer warranty's :madman:

Ski-U-Mah said:
Jisch was under warranty. This guy is not. What part of that don't you understand!? Jeezus. :madman:
Click to expand...
 
#12 · (Edited)
Homebrew said:
Sorry I'm a little nerved about this because my HH frame also has a crack in the exact same spot (interestingly enough, same side too). I spared the forum the gory details though. Charles said it would be around $575 for a new RX front triangle. I wasn't thrilled with the offer either. Right now it's rotting in my garage because I'm not sure it's worth the cash to get it rolling again.
Click to expand...
Interesting, it seems that there is definitely weak spot in X/HH100x design after all. Maybe Titus should have used pierced top tube (like old GT's) to prevent this (gusset / strut are heavier solutions)? Where is the next weakest part of the frame - wasn't there some reports broken chainstays couple of years ago?
Anyway, it is still relatively lightweight frame, has low top tube and long seatpost and they tend to be ridden pretty hard so maybe limited life-span is acceptable in some sense.

I know I have enjoyed my HH100x during last 2,5years, I hope it stays OK for little longer. Maybe keeping it cold every winter (-35F in my unheated shed) will keep it young forever! ;)
 
#13 ·
markom said:
Interesting, it seems that there is definitely weak spot in X/HH100x design after all. Maybe Titus should have used pierced top tube (like old GT's) to prevent this (gusset / strut are heavier solutions)? Where is the next weakest part of the frame - wasn't there some reports broken chainstays couple of years ago?
Anyway, it is still relatively lightweight frame, has low top tube and long seatpost and they tend to be ridden pretty hard so maybe limited life-span is acceptable in some sense.

I know I have enjoyed my HH100x during last 2,5years, I hope it stays OK for little longer. Maybe keeping it cold every winter (-35F in my unheated shed) will keep it young forever! ;)
Click to expand...
It's definitely a design issue. The top tube is too low for the size of the bike. Mine is a 15.5 seat tube with a 23.5" top tube. It seemed like a good idea at the time. :rolleyes:
 
#15 ·
LyNx said:
The fact that a Botique bike like this has a crappy 4 year warranty :confused: and the cheaper Giant's, Trek's and such have longer warranty's :madman:
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You answered your own question.

Treck, Giant, Specialized are cheaper bikes. They cost much less to the company to produce. They (I'm assuming like Titus) build in the cost of warranty replacements, but since Treck, Giant and Specialized all produce a ton more bikes... the per unit cost of bike sold is much lower. That doesn't even count in that the replacement frame costs T/G/S less than a replacement bike from a boutique brand.

If any of the larger three need to do a warranty, it hurts them far less than a boutique brand in both sides of the question.

Even with a longer warranty - it is really only as good as the people who stand behind it. Boutique brand, mass produced or otherwise. When in college one of the guys I rode with was refused a warranty on his commuter bike. It broke at the chainstay while riding between classes. It had a lifetime warranty. The warranty didn't do any good.

There are plenty of other high end products that have shorter warranties than their mass produced counterparts. What's the warranty on a Lotus, Porche vs the warranty on a Kia?

Just a few thoughts.

JmZ
 
#16 ·
Well I'd put my Trance up against a comparable (4") botique bike any day and bet it rides as good, lasts as long if not longer AND cost me prob 1/3 what they cost. Either way a short warranty is a short warranty for things that are made to do the exact same thing - A KIA is in no way made to rev to 15,000 RPM and do 190+ MPH - bad comparrison but nice try to defend the exorbitant botique prices.

JmZ said:
You answered your own question.

Treck, Giant, Specialized are cheaper bikes. They cost much less to the company to produce. They (I'm assuming like Titus) build in the cost of warranty replacements, but since Treck, Giant and Specialized all produce a ton more bikes... the per unit cost of bike sold is much lower. That doesn't even count in that the replacement frame costs T/G/S less than a replacement bike from a boutique brand.

If any of the larger three need to do a warranty, it hurts them far less than a boutique brand in both sides of the question.

Even with a longer warranty - it is really only as good as the people who stand behind it. Boutique brand, mass produced or otherwise. When in college one of the guys I rode with was refused a warranty on his commuter bike. It broke at the chainstay while riding between classes. It had a lifetime warranty. The warranty didn't do any good.

There are plenty of other high end products that have shorter warranties than their mass produced counterparts. What's the warranty on a Lotus, Porche vs the warranty on a Kia?

Just a few thoughts.

JmZ
Click to expand...
 
#18 ·
LyNx said:
Well I'd put my Trance up against a comparable (4") botique bike any day and bet it rides as good, lasts as long if not longer AND cost me prob 1/3 what they cost. Either way a short warranty is a short warranty for things that are made to do the exact same thing - A KIA is in no way made to rev to 15,000 RPM and do 190+ MPH - bad comparrison but nice try to defend the exorbitant botique prices.
Click to expand...
I used to think the same about my Warp. Being it overbuilt, I used to think it was pretty solid and stiff (actually it is).. it's just that the Switchblade is way better. You'll never notice how much your wheels/tyres/fork/handlebar flex until you put them on a Titus.

There's a reason why they are priced that high. The performance difference is quite noticeable.

Now, if the perceived value difference is worth to you or not, that's another ticket.
 
#19 ·
My break...

Here's some pics of my break - very similar to the others posted. I tend to agree that there should have either been a disclaimer on how much seatpost is allowed or a different design that didn't require so much exposed seatpost to get the right height.

I seem to remember in one of the reviews on MTBR for the HH100x, one person wrote that they had to keep explaining to people why he had so much seatpost exposed. Hmmmm...

I hope everyone gets taken care of... I would definitely buy another Titus - this is a great machine. I smile every time I swing my leg over it.

John
 

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#20 ·
LyNx said:
The fact that a Botique bike like this has a crappy 4 year warranty :confused: and the cheaper Giant's, Trek's and such have longer warranty's :madman:
Click to expand...
Lynx, there's something I'd like to add. You know how much I appreciate you from the ole days (for me) of the Giant forum.

Titus warranty is in-line with other high end brands. Take Turner, 3 years "only".

Turner's crash replacement program is under discretion of Turner... but the guidelines are that you get 600 bucks credit towards the acquisition of a new Turner frame. That would be close to put around a grand more for a new frame. That's more less what you get with Titus.

I agree there may be better Warranties out there, but in no way Titus' is off from what's offered on the market.

One more thing to consider.... transferability of Waranties. I owned a Giant second hand. If it ever had a problem, I'd be totally out of luck.

I have a second hand Titus... and even though the Warranty is not transferrable, the day it breaks I know I have at least the crash replacement programme to back me up. Something that works for my peace of mind.
 
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